Elite:Dangerous for Linux?

[JerryLove]

why bring up apple as a reason why FD wont do linux?

I didn't.

I brought up a lack of revenue as the reason. I offered Mac, DX10, and Win32 as examples supporting that reason.

A major point in this thread being created is that linux is a means to not waste all of the effort porting to opengl that's already been done because all of the reasons why Mac support has been basically dropped dont exist for linux.

It's another codebase to try to support.

I'm sure FD will look at the costs of implementation, the money they think they will make, and how the ROI compares to putting those resources elsewhere and decide whatever they decide. I suspect it will be to not have a LINUX client; for the reasons I've already outlines.

There is a reason why mac support was dropped and it had nothing to do with "not enough money" in it and everything to do with that OS controlling the graphics API that is over half a decade outdated to current technology.

This statement is simply untrue.

I guarantee, if 95% of their user base were playing in MacOS, they would not have dropped Mac.

If you assert anything else: you are lying to either us or yourself.

*Of course* it's about money.

That's it. Apple said it doesn't want proprietary graphics drivers and they dont have open source ones, they have their own crappy in-house ones supporting outdated old versions of OpenGL that are lacking the basic features that the game makes (and needs to make) heavy use of.

When Shadragon, or whomever, asks why I'm talking about Mac: I'm going to point them to this post and how other posters seem dead-set on having that discussion.

That being said, I'd rather them make 1 good port than 3 they can't be bothered to make simple bugfixes to in a timely manner (like i dont know, the current game where the last release broke materials spawning rocks on planetary surfaces so that they dont spawn the rocks at all and it wont be fixed until the next release is made in January if that gets released according to plan)

Yep. I'm saddened that they are porting to PS4 when there are so many long-standing bugs in their Windows client.

 

[amigacooke]

I guarantee, if 95% of their user base were playing in MacOS, they would not have dropped Mac.

You're off topic and FD haven't dropped macOS, it's still being updated.

 

[JerryLove]

You're off topic and FD haven't dropped macOS, it's still being updated.

I responded to Darth Ender. Feel free to tell him he is off topic.

FD hasn't dropped Mac? OK. How many Macintosh users are playing Horizons in OSX? A rough guess will be fine.

And before someone tells me I'm off topic talking about mac: take it up with amigacooke here who said Mac was supported.

 

[Janichsan]

I'm watching downstream at https://www.codeweavers.com/compatibility/crossover/elite-dangerous there is a filthy rumour that crossover 16 will include full DX11 support.

The same was already announced for Crossover 14 and 15…

Now that PS4 has been confirmed it would be nice to think a Linux version wouldn't be that much of a hassle seeing as the PS4 runs a modified version of BSD.

The PS4 System Software is a far cry from being a simple Linux clone. Most important difference are Sony's completely proprietary graphics APIs GNM and GNMX.

 

[0x666c697473]

The same was already announced for Crossover 14 and 15…

well, that's a shame, but as there is stuff actually happening upstream now, I'll keep hold of that little bag of optimism.

 

[Arbitrary007]

Going to go ahead and throw what I can in there... Linux user here. I've got both Elite Dangerous and Horizons on hand (both gifted, I think). Should Frontier want to make a Linux version at any point in time, I would be more than welcome to assist in testing and debugging the version. I've helped other games that offered Linux versions for testing (Magicka 2, Undertale). I was also active when Portal 2's port was in development when having my own copy.

I have been playing Horizons on my Windows desktop, but I much prefer to play on my Linux system because it has better equipment (i5, 16GB RAM, GTX 1060 vs Pentium, 4GB, and GTX 750Ti) and works with more of my hardware, including my gaming keyboard which doesn't want to work in Windows half the time. (Go figure? Using a KVM and my Linux PC handles the switching much better than my Windows 7 system.)

Anyway, I intend to also keep up with WINE possibly getting it to work as well, but ideally I'd prefer a Linux client. Even WINE games doesn't get booted all that often, and I'd prefer to avoid using it if I can.

 

[PvtTUX]

The same was already announced for Crossover 14 and 15…


The PS4 System Software is a far cry from being a simple Linux clone. Most important difference are Sony's completely proprietary graphics APIs GNM and GNMX.

I never said it was a "simple Linux clone " I know about the other hurdles but seeing as Nvidia offer more than capable binaries Im not sure what Sony has to do with it ?

I wasn't suggesting a port from ps4, anyway it ain't gonna happen in my lifetime

 

[CMDR Spadino]

I would love an ED Linux version. I will pay for it, for sure...

 

[thorn-]

I have been playing Horizons on my Windows desktop, but I much prefer to play on my Linux system because it has better equipment (i5, 16GB RAM, GTX 1060 vs Pentium, 4GB, and GTX 750Ti).

So, you own a Windows desktop, and you own a high-end system which you could easy install Windows on, and dual-boot with Linux.

But instead of doing that, you're hoping for a Linux port.

Now which solution seems far more reasonable and easy - Frontier creates a Linux version, or you work it out with the hardware/OS you already own (and use)?

I'm sort of using the general "you". Clearly, you're playing Horizons and have decided your solution works well enough for you. I'm just pointing out that many Linux users seek the most time-consuming, difficult solution to their problems (a port) instead of the easiest (install Windows on another partition and get on with life.) Which I guess ironically makes sense, as Linux users do love spending hours in the terminal typing "Sudo: Make It Work Please".

 

[Darth Ender]

This isn't a problem seeking a solution. It's just a request for a port to a platform that is more agreeable to the people making the request.

Arguing that they should just use what exists on a different platform is kinda besides the point. In that reality, nothing would ever be ported from one OS to the other on a given hardware platform. Which is a dumb stance to have.

The use of stop-gaps in the meantime is in no way a construed acceptance of the status quo. You can adapt to a given situation and still argue for it's change.

 

[WR3ND]

I'm thinking of the future here too. I plan on Windows 7 being the last version of Windows I use on my PCs. It works well enough for me as it is now at least.

 

[thorn-]

Although Windows has the lion's share of the market for gaming, this will change very soon. Linux Kernel has about 1.78%, but this will also change soon.

"....you hope."

Windows 10 will only run on the new sixth generation processors, so says Microsoft, Intel, AMD and QualComm.

Completely false. I'm easily running Windows 10 on a laptop I bought 6 years ago.

A Windows 10 Eula which includes an all inclusive personal data grab, including anything on your box or in the cloud. <(provided you accept the Eula and License agreement.)

Which you do not have to accept, which means your data is not stored in the cloud.

Windows 10 will also prevent dual-booting to any Linux Distro or other OS

False. Here are instructions in case you don't know how it's done: http://www.tecmint.com/install-linux-mint-18-alongside-windows-10-or-8-in-dual-boot-uefi-mode/

I mean... Dude. Seriously. It's cool to be an alt-OS enthusiast, but maybe cut down on using complete falsehoods to convert the masses.

 

[WR3ND]

Yeah, no need to beat around the bush. Linux is cool because it's your OS and you can and are encouraged to do whatever you want with it to use it how you see fit.

Windows 7 works great for me though for what it is. Having used and supported various versions of Windows professionally as well, I see it more as a "consumer grade" OS though, keeping in mind that businesses are often consumers too, in their own way.

It's kind of ironic, since I don't think most Windows users are actually knowledgeable enough to use Windows effectively, reliably, and securely. Better for some just to buy a new pre-built computer every year or two than to properly maintain the one they have, I guess. But I digress.

 

[Janichsan]

I never said it was a "simple Linux clone " I know about the other hurdles but seeing as Nvidia offer more than capable binaries Im not sure what Sony has to do with it ?

The short answer is that contrary to what you implied earlier a PS4 version would do nothing to make a Linux port easier. The differences are too big.

 

[Cocalarix]

Completely false. I'm easily running Windows 10 on a laptop I bought 6 years ago.

Completely agreed. I installed Windows 10 on my mother's 9 year old PC, mostly because it's much more user friendly, and it surprisingly runs better and even boots faster.

Now related to Linux, do we have any idea how many people use it as an OS around the world?

Sony sold 50 million PS4 recently, so it makes sense that the PS4 port is happening. Sony has a huge playerbase.

But what about Linux?

 

[JerryLove]

Sony sold 50 million PS4 recently, so it makes sense that the PS4 port is happening. Sony has a huge playerbase.

But what about Linux?

The raw numbers on LINUX will likely look good in that context (if you can generate them). But there are some strong differences in use.

Essentially 100% of PS4 owners use the PS4 for gaming. The same is not true of Linux.
Essentially 100% of PCs capable of running ED on Linux are also capable of dual-booting or running ED in a W10 VM.

So the estimated number of Linux desktop users who don't presently have ED who would get it if there were a Linux port is , presumably, smaller than the number of PS4 owners in the same situation.

 

[amigacooke]

Of course FD could cut out all the tedious and expensive support required for Windows and just concentrate on XBox and PS4, especially as VR support seems likely for consoles. Then 100% of ED users would just have to buy a relatively inexpensive console.

As a consumer I'd rather use Linux, it's free and Windows isn't.

 

[JerryLove]

Of course FD could cut out all the tedious and expensive support required for Windows and just concentrate on XBox and PS4, especially as VR support seems likely for consoles. Then 100% of ED users would just have to buy a relatively inexpensive console.

That would be a decision based on the sales data; though they may run into a legal issue, particularly with lifers.

As a consumer I'd rather use Linux, it's free and Windows isn't.

An I prefer windows for its better security, familiarity, and the hundreds of thousands of programs that run on it. I paid less for windows than I did for ED. I have thousands of dollars in software, and thousands more in hardware... the $200 I paid years ago to get windows is trivial in the mix.

Indeed: many games are free, and Elite: Dangerous isn't. Why is your "free" criteria OS exclusive?

 

[0x666c697473]

An I prefer windows

fair position

for its better security

Sorry, gonna need a source on that one, I suspect we will find out all software has bugs though.

familiarity

again, fair position, but it's as subjective as the first, kinda like you prefer one to the other (like some Linux users do)

and the hundreds of thousands of programs that run on it. I paid less for windows than I did for ED. I have thousands of dollars in software, and thousands more in hardware... the $200 I paid years ago to get windows is trivial in the mix.

Well, I'm pleased you have a platform that works for you. I *don't* have a platform that works for me with ED. I use Linux for everything other than Elite. The only reason I have windows, and need a second platform (dual booted or not) is for ED and I'd prefer not to have to deal with the randomness I find that I encounter with windows.

Indeed: many games are free, and Elite: Dangerous isn't. Why is your "free" criteria OS exclusive?

This strongly depends on what you mean by "free", the word is loaded. Some refer to the cost of the OS, which they consider to be Free of Charge, others refer to the freedom of Open Source, whereby one organization cannot obfuscate and hide code, or what can be done with a particular program. To go one step further, Elite is a highly specialized product that runs on (multiple) commodity platforms, to compare the financial cost of the game to the financial cost of the OS you use, isn't a fair comparison for either.

I'm kinda disappointed that we have degenerated into OS bashing though, I just don't see a need for it. Windows is not a good OS for me, but it is for you. All I want is to coexist in game. I come from an age where seeing a game get ported to multiple platforms was the norm, to see ED make it to Linux would be perfect for me, but I don't see how this impacts or detracts from your experience on windows.

From my perspective, I think FD have demonstrated the ability to manage multiple platforms already and will continue to do so, I'm just at a loss to understand why some posters here seem to think that a future Linux port somehow detracts from their current game experience.

 

[thorn-]

As a consumer I'd rather use Linux, it's free and Windows isn't.

This argument of "as a consumer..." starts with a soft of false premise.

Few Linux users, including the ones I know, are what I would call "consumers". They are either "hobbists" and enjoy tweaking their systems for the challenge, or "IT professionals" who use Linux in a server room. Usually, they're both. Most "consumers" - and when I say most, I mean the 99% of people using Windows and MacOS, use their computers to run software. They're like drivers. Most people spend their time driving a car, not tweaking it.

My son loves to spend days and entire paychecks trying to get 10 more HP out of his Mazda installing various parts. While I love my own sportscar, I have no interest in ripping the engine apart or spending a month trying to home-tune a bolted-on turbo (which I know would overpower the drivetrain, thus requiring that I rebuild that as well, but I digress....)

Linux users are generally like car tuners. They want to play with their custom PCs, and install and tweak different flavors of of Linux for the sake of doing it. There's nothing wrong, at all, about want to spend a weekend searching a Linux repository for yet-another-driver-that-might-work and typing "sudo". But that's not what consumers do. Consumers just want to run their software.

JerryLove makes an excellent point on "free OS".

Elite isn't free. My Thrustmaster wasn't free. The monitor, the desktop, etc wasn't free. We pay for all of these things without blinking, really - but when it comes to Windows vs Linux, suddenly there's this outcry of "But I don't want to PAY FOR IT." People will spend $300 on a case with a side window and neon/LED case lights, but can't bring themselves to pay for an OS.

I bought a new Dell XPS Tower this month - i7-6700 3.4 processor, 16 GB ram, decent nVidia card, keyboard/mouse, etc etc - for about $750. Windows came "free" with it. And it worked 100% out of the box, with every bit of software that I own (or at least had tried running). I've spent zero hours trying to download and install drivers. That pales in comparison to when I used to source my own parts on NewEgg, and built my own systems. It was fun for awhile (i guess), but eventually I just wanted a fast system that I could ignore and focus on the actual task I needed to do on the computer.

My paychecks depend on being able to do certain things, most involve running Adobe software. Well, Photoshop (for example) doesn't run on Linux. Why on earth would I ever delete Windows, install Linux, and then start begging Adobe to do a port? Because I just don't like Bill Gates? (...or Microsoft, or capitalism, or user agreements ... which we'll note: even Elite has a user agreement...)

To close: I remember when I used to own a Macintosh (System 7, not these new things.) I'd spend months and years wishing some particular game would FINALLY be ported to MacOS. Eventually I just realized I could keep playing shareware games, or get a PC and enjoy the games all my friends were playing. Guess which way I went.