Horizons Elite Dangerous is needlessly difficult

[DragoonKnight]

Elite Dangerous, the clue really is in the name to be honest.

It's not supposed to be easy.

Also, if NPC's are killing large things in small ships, surely that should mean something...

Something like, maybe your loadout on the 'vette needs to be adjusted, maybe turrets are now essential to counter the manoeuvrability of smaller ships. Or maybe, just maybe, you will have to buy a little ship & join in the fun!

It seems that large ships have suffered quite a bit in this update, mainly because people haven't adjusted their tactics and realised that they actually can be outmanoeuvred now, just as they should.

Adapt & overcome, the only way to play Elite.

Do you realize how absurd it is for the big combat ships to be overall weaker than the super agile small combat ships?

Anyway, I dont really care about adapting and overcoming. Plenty of that in real life. I just want to have some fun blowing up space ships and I havent been able to do that for about 2 weeks now thanks to 2.1
I would literally pay to have the AI difficulty back to 2.0 levels, but without the bugs (AI spin of death comes to mind)

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i've been sayign this despite not being that casual myself.

But i'm no combat master either. I haven't died in 2.1 yet and i've done my fair amount of fighting, but i'm also in a fully kitted clipper and i was always quick to run anyway so i learned a long time ago that when my shields are getting low, its time to high tail, no try to stand my ground .

But like i see little chance of getting to play with my brother again with the difficulty of the game now. He was more a casual and he already was a bit afraid of combat. When i told him how 2.1 was i could feel he wasn't gonna come back.

Every time I get into combat with my Clipper the shields feel like they are made out of paper. Even with my Corvette I end up having to use my SCB very often. Combat is no longer something fun that I could do for hours

 

[Ralph Vargr]

At least you can recognize that the feeling you had was an illusion. Many others on here still retain the delusion they were good combat pilots before Elite 2.01.02.

I've never had that illusion.

And I've been telling y'all the day would come when you would be getting killed by the NPC's to the point that the forums would explode since that time.

 

[Cmdr Esteban]

makes me think of this quote;

There used to be a time....
(before men wore man-handbags and moisturizer)
when people bragged about their accomplishments instead of their weaknesses.

this is too hard!?!??!

I don't do any of those things. Well, okay, I do use moisturiser, but then I'm a whoopsie so maybe that's got something to do with it.

And I certainly do use mines, because they're wicked. Followed up with pulse lasers and multi-cannons after I do the FA-off boost flip and come about to face my doomed foe. Mwahahaha

 

[david6768]

makes me think of this quote;

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZJIdSX2Kr7w&list=PL_5T5pChnNbtO9K5B3QhAhlpaQWpZe1JU&index=1
this is too hard!?!??!

HAHAHAHHHAAHHa
ROFL
So you find one bugged out NPC that isn't shooting at all from what I see and you use that as an example that the current NPC AI is easy to beat.

 

[Ca$hback]

Nav beacons are for the crap pilots like me, HazRes are for good pilots who can handle themselves well. Where are the good pilots supposed to go for a challenge if people want the "Hard mode" dumbed down? They're better pilots, they get paid more because they can handle the risk. Also, use a cheap ship if you're looking for trouble. If you can't swim stay out of the deep end, don't drain the whole pool.

 

[clivewil]

I would literally pay to have the AI difficulty back to 2.0 levels, but without the bugs (AI spin of death comes to mind)

Combat is no longer something fun that I could do for hours

yes the death spin and the scan 'n' ram were the only things that annoyed me with the old ai. i'd win 95% of battles easily and there was the occasional 5% that got my shields down or sent me running, just to make it interesting

NOTE I HAVE NOT DIED YET IN A FIGHT WITH THE 2.1 AI, AND MY 2.1 REPAIR BILLS ARE LESS THAN 100k - this has nothing to do with gittin' gud or learning to adapt, or losing lots of money, in every case i've managed to stay alive and meet my objectives - this is purely about how much fun the game is for the casual player or non-combat player, i.e. nowhere near as much as it used to be.

and for me, it's a shame because almost every other aspect of 2.1 is a huge improvement over 2.0 - yes, i get it, the pro-combat guys and challenge fanatics are happy now with the new system. but for many of the rest of us, the game is now beginning to resemble work and not play.

 

[Cmdr Esteban]

Nav beacons are for the crap pilots like me, HazRes are for good pilots who can handle themselves well. Where are the good pilots supposed to go for a challenge if people want the "Hard mode" dumbed down? They're better pilots, they get paid more because they can handle the risk. Also, use a cheap ship if you're looking for trouble. If you can't swim stay out of the deep end, don't drain the whole pool.

This can also apply to staying in high security systems and avoiding low security ones - for those who are not skilled in combat or defensive retreat. Wise words (emphasis added).

 

[Lucius Banes]

This game has now become un-playable for me, the combat needs to be toned down a lot, almost every battle is un winnable. Ive lost nearly 50 million in rebuy costs. Since the update I havnt won a single battle!!!!

 

[X-Terminator]

Key words here FD:-
"GAME" and "FUN" so why the RNG to help some but not others after losing a Ship from a simple mistake?
https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showt...Gameplay-Content-stuff-we-ask-for-in-Feedback-)

 

[Luniticisi]

Key words here FD:-
"GAME" and "FUN" so why the RNG to help some but not others after losing a Ship from a simple mistake?
https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showt...Gameplay-Content-stuff-we-ask-for-in-Feedback-)

Are you going to post this link in EVERY thread on the Forum ?

 

[Vasious]

HAHAHAHHHAAHHa
ROFL
So you find one bugged out NPC that isn't shooting at all from what I see and you use that as an example that the current NPC AI is easy to beat.

How many videos of reasonable level 2.1 & 2.1.02 NPCs would you like?

2.1

Spoiler

[video=youtube;TijL_oUz50k]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TijL_oUz50k[/video]

[video=youtube;rWExQZj3aiQ]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rWExQZj3aiQ[/video]

[video=youtube;EhOt_Nf-UyU]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EhOt_Nf-UyU[/video]

2.1.02

Spoiler

[video=youtube;bY-JBYo9694]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bY-JBYo9694[/video]

[video=youtube;7rvujNeGTqg]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7rvujNeGTqg[/video]

 

[Vasious]

I know there are some fanbois out there with plenty of time on their hands who can eat a pizza at the same time as flying a Hauler backwards with FA off while strafing a wing of Elite Anacondas to death and filling in their jobseeker's allowance forms with their other hand, but then there are the rest of us

I love how everyone who enjoys a challenge must be unemployed, that you can try to take some moral high ground over.
I really hope you don't have kids as you are a god awful role model if you do, belittle anyone who you don't like and disagree with, imply they are some how wrong and a leech on society regardless on the actual circumstances of their life, regardless of if they actually have a job, and work just as hard as you.

I hope you take you stuck up attitude to the dole line yourself, have a problem with that, read your own Post.

Some of us work damn hard to be able to enjoy our hobbies, and to dismiss anyone who might enjoy it differently from you and try to write them off as drain on society.

 

[Lucius-Darcia]

After all, it is a game. It should be challenging, rewarding, interesting and fun

-Challenging? YES it is
-Interesting? YES it is
-Fun? MAYBE...depending who plays
-Rewerding? NO!

And that is the point. Most players actual unsatisfied, wouldn't be that if the rewards would be rich.
It doesn't matter if you kill 1000 harmless sidewinders to progress in rank or if you fight against 1000 elite condas. This isn't rewarding. The little credits...c'mon who really gives something to the 100k bounty when you have to repair/reload for 80k and risking 35mil insurance every fight?
We need better Rewards!

 

[ElPueblo]

I love how everyone who enjoys a challenge must be unemployed, that you can try to take some moral high ground over.
I really hope you don't have kids as you are a god awful role model if you do, belittle anyone who you don't like and disagree with, imply they are some how wrong and a leech on society regardless on the actual circumstances of their life, regardless of if they actually have a job, and work just as hard as you.

I hope you take you stuck up attitude to the dole line yourself, have a problem with that, read your own Post.

Some of us work damn hard to be able to enjoy our hobbies, and to dismiss anyone who might enjoy it differently from you and try to write them off as drain on society.

Very well said, sir!

I am a casual gamer with 4h a week (tops! due to work and other responsibilities, you know).
I find the new AI brilliant, challenging, unpredictable sometimes (and by any means I am not good combat pilot).
And this is what I love about the changes to the AI.
These days, you simply cannot go all 'John Rambo' style and attack anyone, anywhere, at any time.

Think, be more careful, plan your tactics (when in RES) and most importantly, gear up.

There is loads of useful posts on the FD forums regarding combat tactics.

Check 777Driver, kofeyh, Cynaqq those lads will point you in the right direction.

Regards

 

[Agony_Aunt]

Let the L337bois fight the L33tbois if they want their L337boi thrills. PvE should be geared to the PvE audience, which means doable for the average PvE player.

Hi,

I don't consider myself L337 or even L336.... i think i'm fairly average. Lots of playtime and combat experience in the game, and boy, i certainly had to adjust with the new AI. No more mindlessly turning and pew-pewing for the win against the better ranked opponents, have to run sometimes from the nastier opponents (something i rarely had to do before!), and against some of them, really have to be using every ounce of my skill to win.

But overall, i think its manageable. I like how i now sometimes have to run. I like how if i'm not in a combat fitted ship, often running is the better option.

I must admit, before 2.01.01 i was about to take a break from the game, but that was due to the bugs with NPC weapons, not due to the improved AI by itself.

When i think back to the old days of Elite and Frontier (no multiplayer, pure PvE games) and how often I had to run from enemies in those or be destroyed (or how sometimes couldn't even escape! Thankfully we had save games back then) I'm fairly sure those games were even harder than what we have today.... at least until I got my hands on a Panther Clipper with 1000 shields... then i just LOL'd at anything.

So, i don't think its too hard. A change of tactics, improve as best you can, but not unbeatable. Choose your targets, don't bite off more than you can chew, and do not conflate possible bugs with a nastier AI. There are reports still circulating of NPCs doing things they shouldn't be able to do... if you experience that sort of thing, report it and move on.

If I am destined to lose every fight, I guess the deal is to never fight anymore. I wonder how long my latest tryst with ED will be.

Are you though? Where is your limit. Is it at Harmless Sidewinders? Ouch! Then how did you even survive before 2.1? Can you take on Haulers? How about Elite Haulers? How do you manage with Eagles? DBS, faced any of those? Cobras? Elite CM3s are currently one of my scariest opponents at the moment... i can take them down in a Vulture, but not easy, they are fast and accurate.

What about lone targets vs wings? Any success there? Wings are dangerous now... a couple of opponents, even if not high rank can ruin your day. Think carefully about engaging wings by yourself. You are not Superman, and 2 vs 1 is bad odds!

What are you flying for combat? Are you using a multi-role? Maybe rethink that. Multirole are ok for occasional combat, not for throwing yourself into the thick of things.

What about outfitting? Are you fitting at least one chaff and one PDT/ECM? Are you adequately defended?

Just throwing these out there to see if you are dealing with the new AI right. The expectation that you should be able to faceplant any NPC at any time with any ship now needs to be massively rethought. This isn't about people being L337 or PvEers, its about adapting and surviving against a challenging AI.

Trust me, if i can survive against NPCs in a Cobra Mk4, you can also!

 

[Marasmusine]

I'm a casual player (3 to 4 hours a week), I prefer the new NPCs, I'm happy with their behaviour, I've been able to manage most fights (imperial courier). Before, I was quite blasé before about being interdicted... now I'm more cautious, and quicker to evaluate if I need to run away or not. My only death in 2.1 was when I dropped into a Weapon Fire USS and a wing of cobras was right in my face, I was not quick enough to get away (and maybe I had no chance... but I knowingly took that risk.) Crucially, in 2.1, I haven't once been in a position where I could shoot away at a helpless Python which was passively rotating like a dying dolphin.

 

[Privata]

I respect your opinion but feel that space seems need to be hostile and very hard.

Elite as a franchise has allways been slow and hard , elite dangerous should be as well.

I dont even think that 2.1 is hard , for me I would class it as ''normal'' the only reason everyone is shoked is because it came out of the blue , however most NPCs are still pushovers and dont even shoot back and it seems the NPCs are programed to give you just the right ammount of time to jump out in big tradeships

Just watch what target you attack , look at there rank , ship and numbers and work out if its a fight you can win or not

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I'm a casual player (3 to 4 hours a week), I prefer the new NPCs, I'm happy with their behaviour, I've been able to manage most fights (imperial courier). Before, I was quite blasé before about being interdicted... now I'm more cautious, and quicker to evaluate if I need to run away or not. My only death in 2.1 was when I dropped into a Weapon Fire USS and a wing of cobras was right in my face, I was not quick enough to get away (and maybe I had no chance... but I knowingly took that risk.) Crucially, in 2.1, I haven't once been in a position where I could shoot away at a helpless Python which was passively rotating like a dying dolphin.

To me that does not make you casual.
For me at least casual means someone who wants every game to be easy and give out medals on every single action

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HAHAHAHHHAAHHa
ROFL
So you find one bugged out NPC that isn't shooting at all from what I see and you use that as an example that the current NPC AI is easy to beat.

The AI is too easy still.
It never used FA/OFF and only has one way of fighting.
It does not dodge our shots and does not fly at max speed in SC , does not give chase very well.

On top of that the AI misses a lot of shots and I have been doing tones of fighting sins 2.1 came out , I just the impresion many players dont use pips , lateral thrusters or loadouts

 

[Agony_Aunt]

On top of that the AI misses a lot of shots and I have been doing tones of fighting sins 2.1 came out , I just the impresion many players dont use pips , lateral thrusters or loadouts

They certainly are good shots though if you don't jink around. Agree, you need to be using all the tools at your disposal (lateral thrusters, pips, etc) to get the new AI beat. Even so, for me its a challenge. So, when you go on about it being too easy, remember, even for those of us with a modicum of skill, they can still be a challenge.

Anyway, here's hoping FD will come up with a solution that will allow the less skilled to find safer places and weaker AI to fly, while allowing the super pilots to get their desired level of challenge.

Mainly if people could stop being so bipolar about things and saying FD must make things harder/easier. There is always a third option.

 

[Privata]

They certainly are good shots though if you don't jink around. Agree, you need to be using all the tools at your disposal (lateral thrusters, pips, etc) to get the new AI beat. Even so, for me its a challenge. So, when you go on about it being too easy, remember, even for those of us with a modicum of skill, they can still be a challenge.

Anyway, here's hoping FD will come up with a solution that will allow the less skilled to find safer places and weaker AI to fly, while allowing the super pilots to get their desired level of challenge.

Mainly if people could stop being so bipolar about things and saying FD must make things harder/easier. There is always a third option.

I trust FD will find a way to please everyone

 

[Lheim]

Elite isn't needlessly difficult. But the difficulty it has comes from the wrong sources. They're artificially difficult bars, Nintendo Hard and fake difficulty, like cheating teleporting NPCs and respawning turrets and the other like.