Horizons Elite Dangerous is needlessly difficult

[Moonax IRL]

It seems to me that the majority of players want the game to be much less difficult than it has recently become. There was a time when I fired up Elite Dangerous and enjoyed being the baddest badass in the galaxy (in my own head) for a few hours. It was great fun to fly to some Has Res site and kill a bunch of pirates like some kind of interstellar Lone Ranger.

But those days have gone now, and some poxy little NPC FDL or Vulture can now fly rings around my Federal Corvette and make it perfectly clear that I'm just a very average piece of cannon fodder with an expensive ship and little talent. Oh well, there goes the wonderful fantasy. It's like sending an SAS squad with live machine guns and hand grenades into a paint-balling competition. Challenging, yes. But I suspect that most people would be somewhat put off.

I know there are some fanbois out there with plenty of time on their hands who can eat a pizza at the same time as flying a Hauler backwards with FA off while strafing a wing of Elite Anacondas to death and filling in their jobseeker's allowance forms with their other hand, but then there are the rest of us - with a few hours of play per week during which we have paid to feel like Luke Skywalker. Personally, I play Elite on a three year old laptop, I steer using my mouse, I'm tired of dying every couple of hours, and I'm annoyed that interdiction has been rendered practically impossible to use. On top of all that, every time I get close to becoming Elite, something new is introduced that makes everything much, much harder to achieve. I had been gradually increasing my Deadly ranking for months, increasing by half a percent per day on average. Nowadays, I would think myself lucky if I could get 1% per month. I wish I had had the time to get ranked Elite when the going was so much easier.

If the number of people who fly solo or in limited groups is anything to go by, the majority of people don't enjoy being ganked, griefed or generally slaughtered in open play, but now the NPCs are doing the same. My guess is that the number of (normal) players who risk using an expensive ship in a combat zone nowadays is almost zero. If normal space is anything to go by, I expect that life expectancy in a CZ would be just a few seconds.

I would have thought that when playing in Solo mode (like most people do), it would be reasonable to expect the game to judge the competence of a player and to set the skill levels of NPCs accordingly? After all, it is a game. It should be challenging, rewarding, interesting and fun. I paid good money to be entertained, so that a very average piece of cannon fodder can go back to thinking that he's the baddest badass in the galaxy again.

Who are the majority you claim to represent, you speak for yourself and no one else, so it's just your own opinion. You might want to clarify that and correct you first post because when you come out with such statements, you post should be disregarded.

 

[thirstyfish]

I don't have time to play this game too much. I am a college student with other things going on. I am flying a multi-role python (yes, I know, shame on me). While I can certainly take on most foes, there are some things that are inconsistent. Prior to 2.1, I could reasonably take on relativly high ranked imperial clippers in my asp explorer. Now, in my python, I am having a lot more issues, despite being just as agile as an asp, have superior firepower, and have better armor/shields. Some of these issues were npc ships having engineer mods, but some of them are not. NPCs don't seem to ever miss, I got hit by a plasma accelerator from a few km away, and no, I was not flying in a straight line. They used to miss some shots before, just like a human would. Also, their turreted weapons seem to be much more effective than ours. I run all gimbal mounts on my python, and a single NPC medium turret beam laser will drop my shields before I drop the NPC's shields, and yes, the guy was in front of me. Also, what is with all of the wanted FDLs? I almost never saw any prior to 2.1, but just last night I downed 4 or 5. Other pythons I can handle, and have been handling for a while, but the FDLs are very different. Maybe this is just me not having experience with them. I was kind of ok with the combat ai before. Besides the occasional suicide scanner, and their tendancy to sit there and spin when attacked, it wasn't too bad. I don't mind improvements to the AI, but such a sudden jump is a bit much. I don't claim to be an expert combat pilot, but I am not bad. I had to take down an anaconda in an adder way back in the day. I would describe myself as a bit of a casual gamer, in the sense that I don't play this game a lot. I don't need or want easy mode, but I don't need Dark Souls type difficulty either. All I am asking for is some sort of reasonable middle ground. Is that too much? I don't think it is.

 

[Moonax IRL]

I don't have time to play this game too much. I am a college student with other things going on. I am flying a multi-role python (yes, I know, shame on me). While I can certainly take on most foes, there are some things that are inconsistent. Prior to 2.1, I could reasonably take on relativly high ranked imperial clippers in my asp explorer. Now, in my python, I am having a lot more issues, despite being just as agile as an asp, have superior firepower, and have better armor/shields. Some of these issues were npc ships having engineer mods, but some of them are not. NPCs don't seem to ever miss, I got hit by a plasma accelerator from a few km away, and no, I was not flying in a straight line. They used to miss some shots before, just like a human would. Also, their turreted weapons seem to be much more effective than ours. I run all gimbal mounts on my python, and a single NPC medium turret beam laser will drop my shields before I drop the NPC's shields, and yes, the guy was in front of me. Also, what is with all of the wanted FDLs? I almost never saw any prior to 2.1, but just last night I downed 4 or 5. Other pythons I can handle, and have been handling for a while, but the FDLs are very different. Maybe this is just me not having experience with them. I was kind of ok with the combat ai before. Besides the occasional suicide scanner, and their tendancy to sit there and spin when attacked, it wasn't too bad. I don't mind improvements to the AI, but such a sudden jump is a bit much. I don't claim to be an expert combat pilot, but I am not bad. I had to take down an anaconda in an adder way back in the day. I would describe myself as a bit of a casual gamer, in the sense that I don't play this game a lot. I don't need or want easy mode, but I don't need Dark Souls type difficulty either. All I am asking for is some sort of reasonable middle ground. Is that too much? I don't think it is.

Whats your own combat rank ?

 

[Rick Mason]

I am finding the game now almost impossible to play and I will give you my reasons, I am 71 years of age
so my reflexes are not what they used to be, also I have to play with keyboard and mouse, why I hear you ask,
because I have arthritis in my hands and fingers, using joysticks is a no no! I have been playing since Beta
but my combat rank is still novice, I'm a trader first and foremost, at one time I could beat the interdictions
and the NPCs but not now!! so I am now waiting for NMS and will say goodbye to Elite, the Devs have put the
game beyond my abillities, Thank you!! (not)

 

[thirstyfish]

Whats your own combat rank ?

Expert, I keep my signature updated

 

[Moonax IRL]

I am finding the game now almost impossible to play and I will give you my reasons, I am 71 years of age
so my reflexes are not what they used to be, also I have to play with keyboard and mouse, why I hear you ask,
because I have arthritis in my hands and fingers, using joysticks is a no no! I have been playing since Beta
but my combat rank is still novice, I'm a trader first and foremost, at one time I could beat the interdictions
and the NPCs but not now!! so I am now waiting for NMS and will say goodbye to Elite, the Devs have put the
game beyond my abillities, Thank you!! (not)

I appreciate your position but if you don't want to fight it is very easy to submit and jump again, you also now have the option of mines which are proving very effective. There is plenty of info and tips provided on evasion tactics and it's extremely straightforward and easy. The majority of times when I'm doing missions I avoid conflict as it slows the missions progress so I just submit and jump, if I need mats i submit and destroy the AI for same.
Also Cmdrs should be careful not to take missions higher than their rank as that puts them into contact with higher ranked NPC`s but still evasion is the same and simple to execute. Really it's virtually impossible for any Cmdr to be forced into a fight that they are not willing to be involved with if they follow some simple rules. Cmdrs have to make intelligent decisions about when to fight or flight.

 

[Moonax IRL]

Expert, I keep my signature updated

You may be cognizance of the fact that if you accept missions ranked higher you will meet deadly and elite NPC`s, otherwise you should meet the easier AI on a par with your own level. Again evasion is quite easy in a ship such as the python so really you should be able to control the circumstances of any contact with the AI at all times.

 

[itsJon]

Just started playing again and don't think I will bother anymore. No chance of escaping interdictions, shields drained with a few seconds, no point in owning a large ship anymore.

 

[Moonax IRL]

Just started playing again and don't think I will bother anymore. No chance of escaping interdictions, shields drained with a few seconds, no point in owning a large ship anymore.

Can you tell me why I can escape interdictions without any problem in standard ships if you say that there is no chance.

 

[itsJon]

Can you tell me why I can escape interdictions without any problem in standard ships if you say that there is no chance.

Interdiction starts and I keep the target area in the center so the blue squares tick upto just 1 away from successfully avoiding it, then target area suddenly veers away at massive angle so you can follow for a second and within 2 seconds the opponent interdicts you. I don't mind if its fair and a challenge but when it goes from almost escaping to no chance in 2 seconds it seems wrong to me. Been playing since kickstarter so not a noobie on this but loosing interest rapidly if this is how things are now.
Find it easier to just throttle down and escape that way but can lose shields after 3 or 4 shots. Have kitted my python out with top level shield banks/generators etc.

 

[CMDR Holy Hitman]

I only managed to get through 2 pages of this topic before I got tired of reading the same old rhetoric.

Now this may sound like a "git gud" post... because it is

Yes its very well know that the AI have gotten much better at combat, but they are nowhere near the "impossible" level of dificulty I see complained about on the forums every single day. Most of the pilots (I assume) that are having all these problems were spoiled for a long time with the brain dead AI ( I know I was).

Since 2.1 came out I have died a total of 1 time, which to be fair, was only because I bit off more than I could chew.

Gone are the days where you can fly a shieldless sidey, and kill an elite anaconda. Now you have to actually learn how to fly your ship, and fit it accordingly. Too many of the people complaining the game is "too hard" are in reality, probably a s*** pilot. I quickly realized after 2.1 that I had to change they way I fought AI now, becuase they actually seem like they are trying. I've done combat, trading, and LR cargo missions, without a single problem. The game's not too hard, you're just playing like it's still pre-2.1 and are getting upset because you refuse to actually think about WHY you died, and HOW to fix it, so it doesn't happen again.

Now I am by no means a world class combat pilot, but I'm atleast decent (maybe a bit above average), yet I have to experiance any of these "impossible" AI that are plaguing the forums serveral times a day. If you need any help with fits, or basic flying manuvers feel free to add me in-game and we can meet up.

TL;DR... git gud

Fly safe CMDR's

-Holy Hitman

 

[thorn-]

NPC FDL or Vulture can now fly rings around my Federal Corvette and make it perfectly clear that I'm just a very average piece of cannon fodder with an expensive ship and little talent.

I'm not going to say "get good". Instead, I'll plainly state that I have no sympathy for a CMDR with the resources to purchase a Corvette, yet completely lacking the skills to defend it from a single AI attacker.

Perhaps you should put your Vette in drydock, and spend a few weeks in a Viper. Develop some real combat skills, and then you'll have a change of opinion.

 

[Steve_T]

It seems to me that the majority of players want the game to be much less difficult than it has recently become...

Not really the majority. Just a minority that shout loudly.

 

[Moonax IRL]

Interdiction starts and I keep the target area in the center so the blue squares tick upto just 1 away from successfully avoiding it, then target area suddenly veers away at massive angle so you can follow for a second and within 2 seconds the opponent interdicts you. I don't mind if its fair and a challenge but when it goes from almost escaping to no chance in 2 seconds it seems wrong to me. Been playing since kickstarter so not a noobie on this but loosing interest rapidly if this is how things are now.
Find it easier to just throttle down and escape that way but can lose shields after 3 or 4 shots. Have kitted my python out with top level shield banks/generators etc.

Well I always submit and jump never fails, epically in big ships. I never fight the interdiction, that's your mistake. I have used the python and never lost a ring of shields.

 

[Lordfrith]

op quote

"It seems to me that the majority of players want the game to be much less difficult than it has recently become"

im not sure about this, i think people are more inclined to post forum posts about problems they are having than things they like. this is all fine and natural but i wish both sides of the debate (the 'elite is broken' and 'git gud' camps) were a little less inclined to claim they speak for people who don't post on the forums.

my own opinion is that i don't think ED is 'needlessly difficult' at all, for me the core idea of elite has always been that i'm just another pleb in a spaceship in a galaxy inhabited by other plebs in spaceships. any upgrades i can get, any skills i have should also be available to AI's or it loses that edge. A couple of bugs aside i'm definitely loving the upgraded AI for reasons similar to those already posted: i have know when to run and when to fight, i have to know the limitations of my ship and its loadout, i have to accept the dreaded rebuy screen. There are alot of posts with people complaining about the new AI and dying constantly, AI accuracy, endless interdictions etc but personally i've not experienced any of these issues and, as i'm really not a very good pilot (being mostly inebriated when playing), i put down my avoidance of these issues to a bit of tactics and forthought and a hearty dose of cowardice. And probebly some luck.

so.. 'difficult' i certainly hope so, 'needlessly' no, i think it is needed.

 

[Moonax IRL]

I think part of the problem is some Cmdrs think that they are in big ships and it should be an auto win button as it was pre 2.1. Then they find that they are out matched by the AI and instead of looking at their own lack of tactical awareness and skill they blame the AI saying it's godlike, when it's just better then them.
First they should examine their own ability and adjust their tactics to suit the engagement. Sometimes they will have to run rather than fight until they improve.

 

[MickyG1982]

I think part of the problem is some Cmdrs think that they are in big ships and it should be an auto win button as it was pre 2.1. Then they find that they are out matched by the AI and instead of looking at their own lack of tactical awareness and skill they blame the AI saying it's godlike, when it's just better then them.
First they should examine their own ability and adjust their tactics to suit the engagement. Sometimes they will have to run rather than fight until they improve.

That is a big part of it. I've even saw one where they were given advice on how to adapt & improve, to which the reply was "But I don't want to adapt" I just want to stomp over everything because I have a big ship (or words to that effect). Yes, this used to be possible with the old AI, it was never working right even after it was buffed up a bit later in 2.0. The AI as it is now is working as I expect it to be, it's intelligent, resourceful, fun & challenging all in equal measure. I have to agree that higher levels will have come as a shock to those that earned their combat status on AI ships that just span around in space while fighting but so far I've not found any NPC that hasn't been defeatable (with work) or difficult to run away from...

Having said that, it also goes for *some* traders too, I saw a bug report once where a player complained that the AI was overpowered and that was why he died.
Turned out he was in a T6, with one pulse laser D rated shields & everything else, & lightweight alloy armour, the ship he was fighting was an Elite FDL (or something equally dangerous) & he made no attempt to run. Apparently he could hold his own in 2.0 and refused to even entertain the fact that his ship was in no way shape or form going to win that fight. If he could hold his own with a one gunned t6 against heavy opponents like that in 2.0 the AI must have been so severely hobbled that well, it couldn't even be described as AI, there was something severly wrong then that was simply put right.

 

[komninosm]

So I tried to play vanilla E : D (1.6) without all this "Pimp-my-spacecraft" nonsense. And what should I say. In an RES I have to fight against NPCs with modifications of 2.1!!! I had several thermal and impulse attacks and encounter NPC-ships with modified shields and engines! Where is the logic in that? So the players who don´t have the chance to beef up their ships - because of not having bought the expansion for e.g. - nevertheless have to fight against modified NPC-ships? This has nothing to do with fairplay or challange anymore. These players are an easy prey for NPCs now because they are highly inferior without the ability of compensating this disadvantage!

What? You don't like being forced to buy a power-creep, p2w, "expansion" at gunpoint?
There will be people who will tell you (in no kind words) that the Horizons stuff is balanced and not a power-creep at all on one hand.
On the other hand the same or similar people will shut you down (hard, lots of flames) if you ask for the NPCs that spawn in instances filled only with players without Horizons (solo or don't squad up with Horizons friends) to be without the "balanced" Horizons stuff (only the keep the good AI, old was terrible, not even worthy of a Beta stage) because you want the game to be too easy.
Never mind that the stuff you don't want is supposedly balanced, it's also too easy if you want NPCs without it.[wacky]

 

[komninosm]

I'm not going to say "get good". Instead, I'll plainly state that I have no sympathy for a CMDR with the resources to purchase a Corvette, yet completely lacking the skills to defend it from a single AI attacker.

Perhaps you should put your Vette in drydock, and spend a few weeks in a Viper. Develop some real combat skills, and then you'll have a change of opinion.

You sort of kinda did.
Also the skills to fly a Viper and a Corvette have some overlapping but also many differences. And a lot of it is ship design.

Well I always submit and jump never fails, epically in big ships. I never fight the interdiction, that's your mistake. I have used the python and never lost a ring of shields.

That's indicative of the problem though isn't it?
If there's a mini-game or gameplay mechanic that's too unfair or buggy to play out and people choose to cheese it all the time then that needs to change, doesn't it?

 

[thirstyfish]

Not really the majority. Just a minority that shout loudly.

You don't have the required data to make that claim. Have you ever taken a stats class?