Elite Dangerous is the Largest Empty Sandbox Ever Made

[Genar-Hofoen]

I think if it provides streamlined in game communication among members of a squadron it would be a great improvement.

What is going to be interesting is the way to control megaships. Do you give it orders? If so, who does? The leader of a squadron?

Oh I think the streamlined in game comms will be a good thing.

As for fleet carrier orders, I suspect it'll be "jump to this <system within a limited jump range>" - it's probably going to need refueled, so I suspect the owners will probably have to fuel scoop on the fleet carrier's behalf and keep doing so until it's got enough for the next jump within a limited range, and so on. I don't think there's going to be a "FIRE EVERYTHING" command, nor do I think it's going to be something which is actively piloted by someone. But you never know. We'll find out in a year's time.

 

[Ian Skippy]

I know.
But, it probably won't meet my expectations anyway.. lol.

Ha, thats honest. I feel that is a big part of the 'problem', when many people start to expect something Incredibly Huge that is far beyond the scope of, what is at the end of the game, a computer game with a DLC pack. For example, all the 'WE NEED SPACELEGS' people will be incredibly disappointed when they realise that, if spacelegs do come, it isnt the 'live your own Star Wars movie' simulator. Best to see ED as a fun game that offers (or for some, offered) hundreds or even thousands of hours of entertainment, and that will improve to some extent. Anyone looking for the second coming of Christ or some such is bound to be disappointed.

Here's a video of David Braben saying "it would be disappointing if you landed on a planet and it was just a differently coloured height map"

[video]https://m.youtube.com/watch?t=7s&v=TImS0NS_h8E[/url]

LOL

Except it isnt a differently coloured hightmap, and you can see what goes in there with the livestream they had just before 2.0 launched. Now if you chose not to care about such things, thats cool too. Some people think Star Wars is sci-fi, also cool.

 

[Alderius]

Well, it is a big galaxy that they're attempting to model, and who's to say it is/isn't as empty as FD has generated? There are planets with life, but they have atmo and we can't land on them in ED. And if we could, and find/build stuff, would it end up being just another NMS? Maybe that's the answer to those that find ED too empty, try out NMS and let us know how great that is.

 

[Ozric]

Oh I think the streamlined in game comms will be a good thing.

As for fleet carrier orders, I suspect it'll be "jump to this <system within a limited jump range>" - it's probably going to need refueled, so I suspect the owners will probably have to fuel scoop on the fleet carrier's behalf and keep doing so until it's got enough for the next jump within a limited range, and so on. I don't think there's going to be a "FIRE EVERYTHING" command, nor do I think it's going to be something which is actively piloted by someone. But you never know. We'll find out in a year's time.

To be honest even if it gives the ability to dock and refuel/rearm/repair regardless of your wanted status anywhere else in the galaxy then it's already a bad thing. Let alone if they get missions and/or contacts...

 

[S3B4ST13N]

Ha, thats honest. I feel that is a big part of the 'problem', when many people start to expect something Incredibly Huge that is far beyond the scope of, what is at the end of the game, a computer game with a DLC pack. For example, all the 'WE NEED SPACELEGS' people will be incredibly disappointed when they realise that, if spacelegs do come, it isnt the 'live your own Star Wars movie' simulator. Best to see ED as a fun game that offers (or for some, offered) hundreds or even thousands of hours of entertainment, and that will improve to some extent. Anyone looking for the second coming of Christ or some such is bound to be disappointed.

If I'm entirely honest.. I expected ED to be what SC will be (at least what their designs show it will be); so I guess you can imagine my disappointment. haha

I'd be happy depth to a lot of features; such as multiple ways to mine, multiple ways to trade. With space legs, I'd want things like .. being able to see my cargo being loaded up. Buying an apartment on a space station.
Buying things for the apartment from around the galaxy. Maybe a "Hutton Mug" for one of my shelves. Or a "Beagle Point" poster (only available from.. yeah, beagle point; maybe add a small science outpost on one of the planets ). Things like that. Nothing game changing.. but something to draw me in and make me feel like I want to be there.

 

[znôrt]

I don't undersand this thread.

(i'll get me coat)

which of the 419 posts?

i reckon i've only read about a dozen, but they're pretty straight forward. my impression is that this is just social interaction, the usual hangout for peeps bored at home/at the office/in the cave and in need of some distraction. actual topic is pretty much irrelevant. don't try to understand the thread. be the thread!

 

[babelfisch]

I think if it provides streamlined in game communication among members of a squadron it would be a great improvement.

What is going to be interesting is the way to control megaships. Do you give it orders? If so, who does? The leader of a squadron?

It will be decided via CGs

 

[[VR] Mad Mike]

That's still not early days like 2012 but 2014... Fair enough though. You can have your ‘executive control’ after I get

Walking around interiors and combative boarding of other ships
Combat and other interactions with other players and AIs in the internal areas of star ports
Accessing richly detailed planetary surfaces

and you can get all that AFTER i get npc crew and npc wingmates and all the rpg stuff in the DDF surrounding them

 

[Sylveria]

If I'm entirely honest.. I expected ED to be what SC will be (at least what their designs show it will be); so I guess you can imagine my disappointment. haha

I'd be happy depth to a lot of features; such as multiple ways to mine, multiple ways to trade. With space legs, I'd want things like .. being able to see my cargo being loaded up. Buying an apartment on a space station.
Buying things for the apartment from around the galaxy. Maybe a "Hutton Mug" for one of my shelves. Or a "Beagle Point" poster (only available from.. yeah, beagle point; maybe add a small science outpost on one of the planets ). Things like that. Nothing game changing.. but something to draw me in and make me feel like I want to be there.

I'm an SC backer, too. I'd love for ED to be what SC is promising.... but I'm also a realist. I know better, and I also know that ED isn't set up that way- fundamentally. It was never implemented that way, and to change the core basics of this game to satisfy those who want it to be what SC promises would take waaaaay too much time and too many resources, they'd practically have to rewrite the game from scratch. From the networking framework all the way to the design level of ships, etc.

Don't get me wrong- I don't "hate" SC... I just think the constant whinging comparisons that get used are ridiculous because it's not going to be the same, ever.

Btw... my SC profile is here

 

[Rampant]

How about that non-consensual unbalanced PVP through the BGS? And powerplay?

No. Its consensual. As soon as you log in to the game you have consented to being BGS 'd.

Thanks for setting up the caricature for me to knock down. [up]

Cheerz

Mark H

 

[Daffan]

This reddit thread is just one long winge from entitled nobodies.

Paying for a product and buying expansion passes / life time passes makes you entitled.

kek. Maybe they just want quality?

In reality, all this game needs is more white knights so when the population keeps dropping they'l be the dominant species.

 

[Ethaidan]

To be honest even if it gives the ability to dock and refuel/rearm/repair regardless of your wanted status anywhere else in the galaxy then it's already a bad thing. Let alone if they get missions and/or contacts...

Hmm, I partially agree, but... would be completely ammenable to the refuel/rearm/repair aspect if it was based on finite shipboard resources that required re-supplying by the ships owner(s). Hell even extend that, and only that to missions - allow the ship to offer source & return missions, but make the owner of the ship responsible for paying the reward... a very limited player sponsered micro-economy that has no effect on the BGS or PP.

 

[[VR] Mad Mike]

No. Its consensual. As soon as you log in to the game you have consented to being BGS 'd.

Thanks for setting up the caricature for me to knock down. [up]

Cheerz

Mark H

wow how did i not see that. it highlights the complete and total hypocrisy from any person who has EVER stated "by logging into open you are implicitly consenting to X Y Z" then having the cheek to moan about people effecting the BGS in solo.

like you say, every player who logs into the game is consenting this 3 modes all with the same influence using the "you consent to everything by logging into open"

good work cmdr

 

[Stigbob]

Paying for a product and buying expansion passes / life time passes makes you entitled.

kek. Maybe they just want quality?

In reality, all this game needs is more white knights so when the population keeps dropping they'l be the dominant species.

Where I'm from, (or maybe when I'm from is more appropriate) keks were underpants.

 

[S3B4ST13N]

I'm an SC backer, too. I'd love for ED to be what SC is promising.... but I'm also a realist. I know better, and I also know that ED isn't set up that way- fundamentally. It was never implemented that way, and to change the core basics of this game to satisfy those who want it to be what SC promises would take waaaaay too much time and too many resources, they'd practically have to rewrite the game from scratch. From the networking framework all the way to the design level of ships, etc.

Don't get me wrong- I don't "hate" SC... I just think the constant whinging comparisons that get used are ridiculous because it's not going to be the same, ever.

I agree completely. I know ED <> SC; but I still think there are plenty of things Frontier can take from SC because they are awesome ideas; not the least of which is how they go about planning their features.
Compared to CIG, Frontier appear almost lazy in their design (shallow) and implementation (buggy as hell). As a developer myself, I expect far more from them; I expect features to be fleshed out MUCH more, and thoroughly tested. If something works in BETA, but breaks live.. something went disastrously wrong; and it's happened often enough for me to sit up and be like "hol up".

An example of this is CQC. Frontier had a fantastic opportunity here.
For example...

"CQC Zones" at certain places around the bubble. Players can fly there, and see where CQC players compete and dock with this MASSIVE tourist stations (unique - double or triple the size of a Coriolis) and can either watch or queue for Arena matches. The Zones are cosmetic, but are designed to fill out the bubble a bit more; make it more alive. Players can actually queue or watch from anywhere. Let players enter their own ships into a "No Rules Match" for the best PvP players to take their ships against each other; and let us watch.

Rewards:

1. Unique decals.
2. Paintjobs.
3. Weapon mods
4. Core mods
5. Perhaps even a unique ship for each faction.

Instead, we got this "pvp thingy" outside the main game.
If Blizzard put Arena outside the main game, I doubt anyone would have bothered playing it to be honest.

It wasn't thought though. It wasn't planned properly. It wasn't implemented properly. It looks and feels like a "let's just do this to shut them up" type of thing.
And I have a problem with this approach to development; especially when DB stresses that they "want to do it right." Maybe he and I have different ideas as to what that means.

 

[Daffan]

This means balance goose, sorry to break that to ye...because while pvprs cant stop solo haulers, neither can the solo haulers stop the pvprs in open. So exactly what is the problem? Quite frankly, Im not seeing the issue at all...the issue that some appear to have is that they dont like balance because they cant shoot anything while using a mechanic that was designed to operate across all modes, ergo its working as intended.

So just to get this straight...ye dont like it because its working as intended? Sounds fairly ridiculous when ye put it that way, but tbh thats exactly what this argument boils down to...its an argument that yer really not gonna win because it is absolutely ridiculous that the game should make fundamental changes just to please a relatively tiny number of players and tick off an even greater number who like things the way they are.

And as fer bypassing open pvp...one could just as easily argue that a pvp fitted ship is playing open to bypass hauling. Regardless what ye personally think of hauling isnt even relevant because its a gameplay mechanic just like pvp is. That being said, either open or solo, everyone has the same choices ergo the system is balanced. And you guys wanna unbalance it...thats basically yer entire argument and its weak as water. Because fundamentally, open pvprs are using open and the pvp excuse to bypass all other mechanics that powerplay has been designed around.

It simply doesnt make sense goose...and all the salt in all the galaxy aint gonna change that because its one the few things in the game that doesnt need balanced...made more interesting and involved certainly but as per mode play, it is balanced and thats that ^

Your right, PowerPlay is doing so well in its current implementation. Hordes of people hauling away and farming npc's nonchalantly having 10/10 gaming experiences.

Almost as much participation as the most recent CG ! Laff

These forums have as many fanboys as SOTA did, going the same way too.


----

To the OP. I think Player-owned would be too much development task. But Frontier really need to fix open/pg/solo interactions, or do something to remove the awful npc hauling/grind nature of this game to compete. Or... the horrible non-existant BGS, the income rates that are really stupid and all over the place and the professions that don't actually do anything, mean anything or reward anything.

Mining is my favorite example, 1) You cant create or do anything with the ore, 2) The ore is irrelevant to the larger economy as it just spawns in stations by invisible NPCs and 3) It has no value and never will as long as exploits and crap income design exists. Multiplayer or not this is horrible design with no foresight, very shallow and meaningless gameplay.

Then you have the horrible C&P system where games like Ultima Online from 20 years ago did better, or even EVE Online did better (Yet everyone on this forum hates on it, why? Envy?)

 

[MelanieFox]

Sandbox???
How does someone can belive it is a Sandbox instead of a Simulation?
If ya wanna Sandbox like a little Child, play Minecraft or NoMan's Sky.

*sigh* Sandbox.... how... i repeat my self...

 

[RexKraemer]

Obsidian Ant's latest video has one of the best comments ever about Elite Dangerous:

Fdev built one of the largest sandbox's in video game history.. then? when it came time to put sand into it? They just built some kiddie theme park rides that offer the same experience over and over. Thargoids are just another theme park. You get on the ride.. see everything there is.. Than there is nothing left but to get on that ride again..... It makes sense for World of Warcraft.. you pay a monthly subscription and Blizzard has 200-300 full time developers building new rides.. In Elite? It wastes limited developer time.. hurts the game.. and ultimately doesn't add any sand to the box.

If there isn't Sand put in the box for Players to actually mold, change and influence themselves.. In an innovative and bold way.. This game will just fall off into obscurity.

It's the saddest part about Elite when you understand how the game works. It's the largest empty sandbox ever made that is full of kiddie rides with no depth or imagination.. In a Game "Galaxy" concept built and based on the idea of depth and imagination. Quite a paradox? Just give players the "Sand" That is all the Developers should be spending their time on. Instead you get CQC, Multicrew, Thargoids, CG's. Placing stations instead of letting players build them.... It's madness.

Link to the subreddit.

P.S. the comment was made by someone else below the video.

Well written and exactly what I think and feel.

 

[Goose4291]

wow how did i not see that. it highlights the complete and total hypocrisy from any person who has EVER stated "by logging into open you are implicitly consenting to X Y Z" then having the cheek to moan about people effecting the BGS in solo.

like you say, every player who logs into the game is consenting this 3 modes all with the same influence using the "you consent to everything by logging into open"

good work cmdr

It does and it doesnt.

The 'consent' thing arose because some people were writing about how they hadnt consented to piracy.

Most of the issues with BGS/PP indirect PvP arise from a desire to try to avoid the atrocious toxic atmosphere it generates (at least for me, and that debacle at Dogmaa and various faction on faction wars in my mind vindicated that).

No one likes to lose, particularly to shadows.

This means balance goose, sorry to break that to ye...because while pvprs cant stop solo haulers, neither can the solo haulers stop the pvprs in open. So exactly what is the problem? Quite frankly, Im not seeing the issue at all...the issue that some appear to have is that they dont like balance because they cant shoot anything while using a mechanic that was designed to operate across all modes, ergo its working as intended.

So just to get this straight...ye dont like it because its working as intended? Sounds fairly ridiculous when ye put it that way, but tbh thats exactly what this argument boils down to...its an argument that yer really not gonna win because it is absolutely ridiculous that the game should make fundamental changes just to please a relatively tiny number of players and tick off an even greater number who like things the way they are.

And as fer bypassing open pvp...one could just as easily argue that a pvp fitted ship is playing open to bypass hauling. Regardless what ye personally think of hauling isnt even relevant because its a gameplay mechanic just like pvp is. That being said, either open or solo, everyone has the same choices ergo the system is balanced. And you guys wanna unbalance it...thats basically yer entire argument and its weak as water. Because fundamentally, open pvprs are using open and the pvp excuse to bypass all other mechanics that powerplay has been designed around.

It simply doesnt make sense goose...and all the salt in all the galaxy aint gonna change that because its one the few things in the game that doesnt need balanced...made more interesting and involved certainly but as per mode play, it is balanced and thats that ^

You never had moral objections like this when you were using P2W ammunition on noobie ships in BSGO

 

[Sylveria]

I agree completely. I know ED <> SC; but I still think there are plenty of things Frontier can take from SC because they are awesome ideas; not the least of which is how they go about planning their features.
Compared to CIG, Frontier appear almost lazy in their design (shallow) and implementation (buggy as hell). As a developer myself, I expect far more from them; I expect features to be fleshed out MUCH more, and thoroughly tested. If something works in BETA, but breaks live.. something went disastrously wrong; and it's happened often enough for me to sit up and be like "hol up".

An example of this is CQC. Frontier had a fantastic opportunity here.
For example...

"CQC Zones" at certain places around the bubble. Players can fly there, and see where CQC players compete and dock with this MASSIVE tourist stations (unique - double or triple the size of a Coriolis) and can either watch or queue for Arena matches. The Zones are cosmetic, but are designed to fill out the bubble a bit more; make it more alive. Players can actually queue or watch from anywhere. Let players enter their own ships into a "No Rules Match" for the best PvP players to take their ships against each other; and let us watch.

Rewards:

1. Unique decals.
2. Paintjobs.
3. Weapon mods
4. Core mods
5. Perhaps even a unique ship for each faction.

Instead, we got this "pvp thingy" outside the main game.
If Blizzard put Arena outside the main game, I doubt anyone would have bothered playing it to be honest.

It wasn't thought though. It wasn't planned properly. It wasn't implemented properly. It looks and feels like a "let's just do this to shut them up" type of thing.
And I have a problem with this approach to development; especially when DB stresses that they "want to do it right." Maybe he and I have different ideas as to what that means.

IIRC initially the game wasn't even supposed to be "centered around PvP", and that was the purpose of having an "Offline SP mode" (which was later dropped)

The only reason we ended up with the "PvP thingy outside the main game" was as a concession to the multipew players who wanted it as such. As to the "mistakes" they made with the networking mode development (P2P, etc.) a lot of that contributed to what we have today- and it's one of the biggest reasons Open will never be what people want it to. Personally, I'd have preferred the SP offline mode, but that's because I spent YEARS playing PvP and got very burned out on it. (I played DAoC for many years even previous to WoW, EVE, etc.) I personally never wanted Elite to be a "PvP" game, I just loved the original 1984 and really looked forward to seeing an good graphics update with new stuff. With SC all of a sudden everyone wanted the competition between the two- and IMO FD ended up making serious mistakes trying to satisfy too many parties, rather than sticking with the initial vision. That's how we ended up with "half of this, half of that, etc. in this game.

I look forward to enjoying BOTH games for what they are- but I know that ED will never be SC nor EVE in cockpits, etc. Those who believe it will be are really only fooling themselves.