Elite Dangerous Issue Report - 10/08/2021

That is precisely the point. The more minor bugs there are in this area of the "pyramid", the more examples there are, of course. I see the need to prioritise bug fixing, and that is exactly what the issue tracker does, but unfortunately not more. That's why I would like to point out the urgent need to find alternative ways to deal with these myriads of minor bugs. Otherwise, they will destroy the game over time. If it's not already too late for that...
Maybe create "hives" of closely related minor bugs, and each minor bug contributes to the "hive's" status (priority etc).
 
Arguably the lack of redirect makes "Apex gets stuck an infinite loop" a critical rather than mildly annoying bug, for something where guaranteeing a fix for the root cause is impossible, I guess.
In my case, it was getting stuck in a station with no concourse (probably no longer an issue now, but it was a big problem in the alpha), in the cases of some others, it was getting stuck in a settlement on an over-hot planet.
 
Sorry if Zac replied already to this (got so many tabs and messages open that I'm just whizzing through them at this point).

We still care! We do. We can also see, very regularly, how much you all care too. If it was "dead" (people love saying "dead" still, don't they?) we would all out tell you - sure!

ALSO I do want to agree that yes, the PP community IS super patient - I and we appreciate you all because there's a lot to digest in how the system works (and in the ways it might...not).
We'll have some conversations and see where we get with some engagement on the topic with you all in the hopefully near future, but it IS on our radar - I just can't confirm when we can talk in depth about things yet due to everything else going on with Odyssey.

As for fixing "trivial issues" first. Sorry, I'm sure you understand this but many of the team work on many areas of the game. Issues that get fixed and addressed outside of Power Play does not mean that we don't care about Power Play, it means that team members who wouldn't be able to work on Power Play and specialise in other areas can get on with their work making quality of life improvements which - I hope - bring some happiness to others.
Thank you Sally for your reply, much appreciated.

This issue with the CC bug was reported in October 2020, and nothing appears to have been done about it, and as I have stated previously, Power Play depends on accurate calculation of CC, and when this is not happening, then that part of the game is effectively broken. Our (the PP community's) frustration is that the bug was suddenly marked as "fixed" when clearly that wasn't the case - this has lead to various conclusions being drawn about FDev's view on PP.

Anyway, glad that matter is still being worked on. Thanks again for your time.
 
A lot needs to be talked about with Powerplay. If I'm being blunt asking questions about Powerplay is akin to jumping into a black hole- you ask, and it never comes back.

I'd also add that Powerplay bugs quite often are very serious because their effects are often permanent (i.e. no rollbacks) and buried.

For example I asked this: (Post #108) https://forums.frontier.co.uk/threa...ties-and-notoriety.587014/page-6#post-9438026 over two weeks ago.

I'm not asking for miracles, and I know you are all busy but its the same story each time- ask, weeks (and sometimes years) roll by and............nothing. That question (just like a lot of Powerplay questions) remain an enigma leading to the conclusion many have that after six years the people who made Powerplay are not the ones looking at the feature today (who are frankly thinking 'WTH'?).
 
Maybe we need something like a 'Patience Tracker'?

But seriously, the game still looks like a huge pile of half things after 8 years. In the first 5 - 6 years, I still defended this style of development and believed that all these placeholders would be filled up and connected over time. Unfortunately, the game is still not only a huge hodgepodge of half things, but instead of filling in the gaps, they just put more half things on top of it, which then still remain unconnected. Not really what I had imagined under the title "NEW ERA".
My patience is wearing thin.
Another example:

The BGS black box has been busted wide open several times despite initially being closed to prevent gaming the system- how times change! Now we have INF per activity and know nearly everything.

Now, people have repeatedly asked FD to tell us how the Galactic Standing in Powerplay works- what actions (some we can guess at) factor in the movement? After six years.....nothing.
 
Sorry if Zac replied already to this (got so many tabs and messages open that I'm just whizzing through them at this point).

We still care! We do. We can also see, very regularly, how much you all care too. If it was "dead" (people love saying "dead" still, don't they?) we would all out tell you - sure!

ALSO I do want to agree that yes, the PP community IS super patient - I and we appreciate you all because there's a lot to digest in how the system works (and in the ways it might...not).
We'll have some conversations and see where we get with some engagement on the topic with you all in the hopefully near future, but it IS on our radar - I just can't confirm when we can talk in depth about things yet due to everything else going on with Odyssey.

As for fixing "trivial issues" first. Sorry, I'm sure you understand this but many of the team work on many areas of the game. Issues that get fixed and addressed outside of Power Play does not mean that we don't care about Power Play, it means that team members who wouldn't be able to work on Power Play and specialise in other areas can get on with their work making quality of life improvements which - I hope - bring some happiness to others.
The point Mo Mo and Oraki have brought up is limited to ensuring the CC of Powers get calculated correctly as the issue tracker was incorrectly marked as fixed and it would've been in the top 20 count that is the target on this thread. It would be like influence for minor factions in the BGS not working correctly, or engineered stats in modules. Something very fundamental.

I know Frontier wants in the future to improve PP for Odyssey and have a dialogue with the community on ways to do it, but at least for now it would be a very welcome thing to finally look and make sure the core mechanic on which every plan and action is based on - Command Capital - is calculated correctly.

Thank you for the attention.
 
Sorry if Zac replied already to this (got so many tabs and messages open that I'm just whizzing through them at this point).

We still care! We do. We can also see, very regularly, how much you all care too. If it was "dead" (people love saying "dead" still, don't they?) we would all out tell you - sure!

ALSO I do want to agree that yes, the PP community IS super patient - I and we appreciate you all because there's a lot to digest in how the system works (and in the ways it might...not).
We'll have some conversations and see where we get with some engagement on the topic with you all in the hopefully near future, but it IS on our radar - I just can't confirm when we can talk in depth about things yet due to everything else going on with Odyssey.

As for fixing "trivial issues" first. Sorry, I'm sure you understand this but many of the team work on many areas of the game. Issues that get fixed and addressed outside of Power Play does not mean that we don't care about Power Play, it means that team members who wouldn't be able to work on Power Play and specialise in other areas can get on with their work making quality of life improvements which - I hope - bring some happiness to others.
From what I can check, no apparent change has been made to fix the issues outlined in that bug report. Can that bug report at least be re-opened so developers can actually see that this bug is still pending in (half) a year when someone has time to properly look at it? If this bug is actually fixed, can a note be added to the bug report outlining what changes have been made?
 
Again, the bug tracker effectively builds a pyramid of bugs. The critical bugs at the top (with the highest chance of being fixed) and an increasing number of smaller bugs that have little to no chance of ever being fixed the further down you get to the bottom and therefore become more and more over the time. Unfortunately, this is inevitable as it's in the nature of the issue tracker!
This, and some bugs just aren't trivial to track down and reproduce by laypeople, or they'll report the effect without being able to guess the cause.

Like, this one I made last night: https://issues.frontierstore.net/issue-detail/41899

I'm guessing what happens here is that it's some daft little thing like one proc in the game somewhere assuming that an array starts at 1 and another part assuming that arrays start at 0. Some really daft thing that only computers do.

The problem is, they expire. This was originally reported back in the alpha, but the reporters hadn't figured out exactly what was happening, namely that it was consistently the alphabetically first person at the settlement by name that was missing, and not just "if there's only one person left it's blank" - they reported that there were ghost entries on the staff list, but they didn't figure out what those ghost entries were and didn't realise that it happened even at completely fully populated settlements.
And it got expired after someone else confirmed it. Then someone else reported it. And got a confirmation on it.

The bug is still in the live game but because it's not gamebreaking it's not going to drive people to the issue tracker - if push comes to shove, people can use their SRV sensors to find the person they're looking for, assuming they brought one.

The thing is, that's like... reported three times now, and the previous expired reports have confimations on them, so logically that's five people who have all confirmed this bug now but if they all keep getting shuffled off into the expired bin and effectively resetting the counter before one of them reaches the critical mass to be confirmed, it'll never get fixed.
 

Deleted member 110222

D
This, and some bugs just aren't trivial to track down and reproduce by laypeople, or they'll report the effect without being able to guess the cause.

Like, this one I made last night: https://issues.frontierstore.net/issue-detail/41899

I'm guessing what happens here is that it's some daft little thing like one proc in the game somewhere assuming that an array starts at 1 and another part assuming that arrays start at 0. Some really daft thing that only computers do.

The problem is, they expire. This was originally reported back in the alpha, but the reporters hadn't figured out exactly what was happening, namely that it was consistently the alphabetically first person at the settlement by name that was missing, and not just "if there's only one person left it's blank" - they reported that there were ghost entries on the staff list, but they didn't figure out what those ghost entries were and didn't realise that it happened even at completely fully populated settlements.
And it got expired after someone else confirmed it. Then someone else reported it. And got a confirmation on it.

The bug is still in the live game but because it's not gamebreaking it's not going to drive people to the issue tracker - if push comes to shove, people can use their SRV sensors to find the person they're looking for, assuming they brought one.

The thing is, that's like... reported three times now, and the previous expired reports have confimations on them, so logically that's five people who have all confirmed this bug now but if they all keep getting shuffled off into the expired bin and effectively resetting the counter before one of them reaches the critical mass to be confirmed, it'll never get fixed.
This is definitely what is making this engineer bug I've been bringing up so difficult.
 
For redirect? It very much was AN issue on the tracker, maybe not the one listed, and I very specifically mentioned that having the ability to redirect Apex is required to avoid support calls.
I'm talking about issue #5 on the Issue Report/Tracker which is a feature request for gameplay. The need for the redirect/cancel feature to fix a person being trapped on the taxi was a different issue.
 
As much as I agree with your post in general, you are not supposed to find the cause of the problem. That's really not our job. You checked "always" in your report in the Issues Tracker, but then you didn't check "can reproduce". Why not? The latter is crucial because there need to be 10 independent(!) confirmations, all of which must have marked as "reproducible". Otherwise, and in general at least, it cannot reach the "confirmed" status. So in this case, it's not even one of the most hopeless candidates. You simply made mistakes in your report. The pictures are also unusable because I couldn't enlarge them. They stay as small as they are and so it's impossible to read any text there. You should have tried Imgur links or something similar....

But otherwise, of course, you're absolutely right: all non-trivial, complex problems will suffer the same fate as the trivial bugs and either decay or be passed down.
I included reproduction steps, the "can reproduce" button is on the contributions, not the initial report.
As for the image, rightclick it and open it in a new tab.
 
You checked "always" in your report in the Issues Tracker, but then you didn't check "can reproduce"
There isn't a "can reproduce" option on the initial report, because bizarre as some of the decisions around it are, it does assume that the initial reporter has experienced the bug, and therefore requires entry of the reproduction steps.

Confirmations by the initial reporter don't count as one of the ten, either.
 
Not that it makes much difference, my tickets tend to expire:
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:D S
 
Hey guys, I'm trying to get an issue fixed related to fleet carriers. Have you all checked your shipyards if you sell ships? Are they all available as they should be? I have the Saud Kruger pack and it's only displaying the Orca for sale while logged into Odyssey. In Horizons you can buy all three. I posted this issue on the tracker in May but it didn't get much attention. I'm hoping other CMDRs on this forum will log in to the issue tracker and help me get this noticed by Fdev. Link to issue on tracker: https://issues.frontierstore.net/issue-detail/41930

Thank you!
 
This is definitely what is making this engineer bug I've been bringing up so difficult.
I just made a new one that I suspect is going to have the same problem - this time because it's a really niche thing and you kinda have to go slightly out of your way for it to become noticeable. Namely - the scavenger spawns upon shutting power off at a settlement appear to be triggered instantly, no dropship or anything, they just blip into existence, but if you're indoors (say, inside the power building) when the power shuts off you don't notice them appearing. I only started noticing it when I decided to set the power shutdown going and run around clearing up the rest of the settlement while I waited, only to have them appear right in front of me.
 

Deleted member 110222

D
I just made a new one that I suspect is going to have the same problem - this time because it's a really niche thing and you kinda have to go slightly out of your way for it to become noticeable. Namely - the scavenger spawns upon shutting power off at a settlement appear to be triggered instantly, no dropship or anything, they just blip into existence, but if you're indoors (say, inside the power building) when the power shuts off you don't notice them appearing. I only started noticing it when I decided to set the power shutdown going and run around clearing up the rest of the settlement while I waited, only to have them appear right in front of me.
That is a big yikes.

But it does explain some of my experiences.

I genuinely thought I just failed to hear a dropship.
 
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