Elite Dangerous need to get serious about Cross Platform.

Being able to affect prices and NPC controlled areas? No problem, cool way to handle dynamic economy and diplomacy.
But being able to drastically affect players who cant punch you back for it? Thats lame. Might as well play a text based game at that point where its all technicality.

I do understand peoples frustration - however, it's a little flawed I feel.

There are definitely players who would log in at times that I just never would, due to time zones alone. There's nothing FD could do to resolve that so that I could fight them directly. Trying to rectify this to your satisfaction would mean a complete redesign of the instancing system, so that there was one big server, and every player was always in every other players instance. This seems a little unreasonable, as well as still not "solving" the time zone issue.

The entire system was literally designed to allow "combat" without ever meeting someone, with the meeting part being essentially irrelevant anyway.
 
The entire system was literally designed to allow "combat" without ever meeting someone, with the meeting part being essentially irrelevant anyway.

To be fair the 'whole thing' (the networking infrastructure) was designed to be affordable for FDev without resorting to a subscription model to pay to keep the servers running. I agree that has been at the expense of meaningful PvP.
 
Just for context and reference, equivalent sim-like cockpit experience games like War Thunder or DCS easily start having network issues when we get close to 20-25 players mark. And that is server based, not p2p.

Maybe those servers are not up to scratch? Maybe your friends' internet connection isn't up to scratch? Your comment is just anecdotal.
 

Viajero

Volunteer Moderator
Maybe those servers are not up to scratch? Maybe your friends' internet connection isn't up to scratch? Your comment is just anecdotal.

No, no, WT aerial battles are limited at 32 players theoretical by default. That should already tell you something. Sim-like games do not seem to have the capacity to replicate EVE like populations in a single instance/battle, server based or p2p. And at around 20-25 is quite usual in general to start encountering all kinds of network issues, rubberbanding, desynchs etc. Server based.
 
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To be fair the 'whole thing' (the networking infrastructure) was designed to be affordable for FDev without resorting to a subscription model to pay to keep the servers running. I agree that has been at the expense of meaningful PvP.

I didn't really mean the networking was designed for indirect combat, I more meant the whole BGS thing.
 
I didn't really mean the networking was designed for indirect combat, I more meant the whole BGS thing.

This is a thread about cross-play, the BGS is already cross-play :)

What's looking to be added is the ability for players on different platforms to be able to instance with each other within the existing instancing rules.
 
I'd rather have my o
This is a thread about cross-play, the BGS is already cross-play :)

What's looking to be added is the ability for players on different platforms to be able to instance with each other within the existing instancing rules.
I used to say no to such things but now there is controller support for PC too and legal aimbotting is accessible to everyone. I'm opting out of twitch shooter stuff with all the shenanigans going on.
 
This is a thread about cross-play, the BGS is already cross-play :)

What's looking to be added is the ability for players on different platforms to be able to instance with each other within the existing instancing rules.

Which would be awesome and I agree with it.
The post I was originally responding to was talking about other issues though. Threads do tend to drift a bit.
 
I'm all for players from all platforms that can use the same game.
What I'm not crazy about is when different player factions from different platforms go against each other in a war or an election where you cant see them or combat them as they are on a different platform.
Recently we lost our station and control of a system of a PC player faction to a PS4 player faction in an election/war . How do you fight a "player faction" if you cant see them as they are on a different platform. The reality now is that now they know they can steam roll us, They will look to take the rest of our hard fought and worked for systems as well like a greedy take take take cancer faction. They cant have the rest of the galaxy but they have to prey on our systems and we are unable to interact with them in game.
This rubbish needs to be sorted out and is ruining mine and other players in our groups gameplay.
Either
1. Make xbox, PS4 and PC all have their own galaxy to work in and interact separately
or
2 Make cross platform a reality so all platforms can see each other in game and it becomes a level playing field

I like playing against AI and I like playing against human player groups, but how do you compete with a human player group you cant see or have combat with.

Frontier have done this on the cheap to grab the console dollars and I get that , greed is good. But for game play it totally sucks as there is no game balance.
Either you make cross platform a reality like every one can see everyone like in other cross platform games i.e. sea of thieves. or give each platform its own server to interact with.
Its only a computer server. its not hard and your making a bundle of cash supporting a galaxy. get it done.
OP, you are quite right of course -- Player Made Faction (PMF) undermining, with no direct way to combat it, sucks for sure.

The issue is the result of FDev's lack of foresight as the problem was introduced as soon as they added PMFs with no ability to join them or control them. (FWIW, I was never against the idea of separate Solo\PG\Open modes before the introduction of PMFs [heck, I even thought they were a good idea at the time] but after PMFs were introduced in their current state I became opposed to them.)

But your suggestion is not complete.

The legion of FDev Defence Force white knights will quickly tell you why you are wrong. They fall back on the original Kickstarter plan as the ultimate justification for their position while making the assumption that nothing else in the game would have to change for FDev to adequately address the underlying issue of PMF undermining that you raise in your OP.

The fact that this issue comes up over and over again is testament to the fact that the original design of the game in this regard is flawed. FDev, of course, knows this but won't admit it and no doubt feels its hands are tied.

So far FDev has not added anything to make this situation any better. Worse, they adopt the "gun maker's" argument for related issues like PvP -- "we only make the guns [you can hide in Solo\PG if you don't like PvP], we don't make people use them in any particular way". Lame; way to wash your hands of the problem FDev.

Working the BGS is (at the moment), unfortunately, the best way to combat PMF undermining. But for many, grinding the BGS is extremely boring and unsatisfying and takes away from other things they would rather be doing.

How to fix the situation? Off the top of my head the following things would likely need to change:
  1. Cross-play should be a thing like in most modern games
  2. Better instancing than this P-2-P stuff we have
  3. Everyone plays in the same mode (i.e., Open Only or something similar... but I know, I know... let's not go there right now)
  4. The ability to join our PMFs (the best we can do now is to create a squadron name that is similar to our PMF's name, lame...)
  5. The ability to declare war\peace\truce with any number of other PMFs
  6. Going to war with another PMF and attacking their ships should not make us criminals just like fighting in a CZ does not makes us criminals
  7. Change blocking so that it cannot be abused (e.g., blocking your enemy PMF's members so that you can undermine without opposition)
  8. Let us more easily see PMF territories in the GalMap
  9. Weapons balancing & shield stacking (optional)
  10. Whatever else that I am not thinking of
Being able to go to war with another PMF is key because even if you don't know for certain if one of the others PMF's commanders is trying to undermine your PMF at this very moment, the kill-on-sight nature of war can lead to in-game diplomacy that can be used to resolve the PMF undermining (which I think would be AWESOME emergent game-play BTW).

Something like this would be welcomed. Just look at Inara how so many squadrons create "alliances" or "coalitions" with each other. Such agreements don't exist as a mechanic in-game and have very little in-game effects. About the only effect they have is a sort of promise not to attack each other's squadron mates and maybe help each other with the boring grind of the BGS to combat PMF undermining. But of course hiding in Solo\PG easily undermines such agreements as does the rampant abuse of the ill-conceived "block" functionality (i.e., people routinely block anyone for any reason whatsoever and even block people whose squadron is dedicated to trying to protect traders, protect AX commanders, etc. so that they can more easily "gank" or pirate (a legitimate game mechanic BTW) others without interference, etc).

Here's to hoping that this becomes a thing in New Era.
 
So the solution to someone playing the BGS against the way you played the BGS is to upend the other players are optional and build a massive server farm to eliminate p2p instancing?

The cure is indeed worse than the "disease".
 
OP, you are quite right of course -- Player Made Faction (PMF) undermining, with no direct way to combat it, sucks for sure.

The issue is the result of FDev's lack of foresight as the problem was introduced as soon as they added PMFs with no ability to join them or control them. (FWIW, I was never against the idea of separate Solo\PG\Open modes before the introduction of PMFs [heck, I even thought they were a good idea at the time] but after PMFs were introduced in their current state I became opposed to them.)

But your suggestion is not complete.

The legion of FDev Defence Force white knights will quickly tell you why you are wrong. They fall back on the original Kickstarter plan as the ultimate justification for their position while making the assumption that nothing else in the game would have to change for FDev to adequately address the underlying issue of PMF undermining that you raise in your OP.

The fact that this issue comes up over and over again is testament to the fact that the original design of the game in this regard is flawed. FDev, of course, knows this but won't admit it and no doubt feels its hands are tied.

So far FDev has not added anything to make this situation any better. Worse, they adopt the "gun maker's" argument for related issues like PvP -- "we only make the guns [you can hide in Solo\PG if you don't like PvP], we don't make people use them in any particular way". Lame; way to wash your hands of the problem FDev.

Working the BGS is (at the moment), unfortunately, the best way to combat PMF undermining. But for many, grinding the BGS is extremely boring and unsatisfying and takes away from other things they would rather be doing.

How to fix the situation? Off the top of my head the following things would likely need to change:
  1. Cross-play should be a thing like in most modern games
  2. Better instancing than this P-2-P stuff we have
  3. Everyone plays in the same mode (i.e., Open Only or something similar... but I know, I know... let's not go there right now)
  4. The ability to join our PMFs (the best we can do now is to create a squadron name that is similar to our PMF's name, lame...)
  5. The ability to declare war\peace\truce with any number of other PMFs
  6. Going to war with another PMF and attacking their ships should not make us criminals just like fighting in a CZ does not makes us criminals
  7. Change blocking so that it cannot be abused (e.g., blocking your enemy PMF's members so that you can undermine without opposition)
  8. Let us more easily see PMF territories in the GalMap
  9. Weapons balancing & shield stacking (optional)
  10. Whatever else that I am not thinking of
Being able to go to war with another PMF is key because even if you don't know for certain if one of the others PMF's commanders is trying to undermine your PMF at this very moment, the kill-on-sight nature of war can lead to in-game diplomacy that can be used to resolve the PMF undermining (which I think would be AWESOME emergent game-play BTW).

Something like this would be welcomed. Just look at Inara how so many squadrons create "alliances" or "coalitions" with each other. Such agreements don't exist as a mechanic in-game and have very little in-game effects. About the only effect they have is a sort of promise not to attack each other's squadron mates and maybe help each other with the boring grind of the BGS to combat PMF undermining. But of course hiding in Solo\PG easily undermines such agreements as does the rampant abuse of the ill-conceived "block" functionality (i.e., people routinely block anyone for any reason whatsoever and even block people whose squadron is dedicated to trying to protect traders, protect AX commanders, etc. so that they can more easily "gank" or pirate (a legitimate game mechanic BTW) others without interference, etc).

Here's to hoping that this becomes a thing in New Era.
Wow, I think you managed to get all the Open-only Trojan horses into one post. I'm not sure that's ever been achieved before.
 
OP, you are quite right of course -- Player Made Faction (PMF) undermining, with no direct way to combat it, sucks for sure.

The issue is the result of FDev's lack of foresight as the problem was introduced as soon as they added PMFs with no ability to join them or control them. (FWIW, I was never against the idea of separate Solo\PG\Open modes before the introduction of PMFs [heck, I even thought they were a good idea at the time] but after PMFs were introduced in their current state I became opposed to them.)

But your suggestion is not complete.

The legion of FDev Defence Force white knights will quickly tell you why you are wrong. They fall back on the original Kickstarter plan as the ultimate justification for their position while making the assumption that nothing else in the game would have to change for FDev to adequately address the underlying issue of PMF undermining that you raise in your OP.

The fact that this issue comes up over and over again is testament to the fact that the original design of the game in this regard is flawed. FDev, of course, knows this but won't admit it and no doubt feels its hands are tied.

So far FDev has not added anything to make this situation any better. Worse, they adopt the "gun maker's" argument for related issues like PvP -- "we only make the guns [you can hide in Solo\PG if you don't like PvP], we don't make people use them in any particular way". Lame; way to wash your hands of the problem FDev.

Working the BGS is (at the moment), unfortunately, the best way to combat PMF undermining. But for many, grinding the BGS is extremely boring and unsatisfying and takes away from other things they would rather be doing.

How to fix the situation? Off the top of my head the following things would likely need to change:
  1. Cross-play should be a thing like in most modern games
  2. Better instancing than this P-2-P stuff we have
  3. Everyone plays in the same mode (i.e., Open Only or something similar... but I know, I know... let's not go there right now)
  4. The ability to join our PMFs (the best we can do now is to create a squadron name that is similar to our PMF's name, lame...)
  5. The ability to declare war\peace\truce with any number of other PMFs
  6. Going to war with another PMF and attacking their ships should not make us criminals just like fighting in a CZ does not makes us criminals
  7. Change blocking so that it cannot be abused (e.g., blocking your enemy PMF's members so that you can undermine without opposition)
  8. Let us more easily see PMF territories in the GalMap
  9. Weapons balancing & shield stacking (optional)
  10. Whatever else that I am not thinking of
Being able to go to war with another PMF is key because even if you don't know for certain if one of the others PMF's commanders is trying to undermine your PMF at this very moment, the kill-on-sight nature of war can lead to in-game diplomacy that can be used to resolve the PMF undermining (which I think would be AWESOME emergent game-play BTW).

Something like this would be welcomed. Just look at Inara how so many squadrons create "alliances" or "coalitions" with each other. Such agreements don't exist as a mechanic in-game and have very little in-game effects. About the only effect they have is a sort of promise not to attack each other's squadron mates and maybe help each other with the boring grind of the BGS to combat PMF undermining. But of course hiding in Solo\PG easily undermines such agreements as does the rampant abuse of the ill-conceived "block" functionality (i.e., people routinely block anyone for any reason whatsoever and even block people whose squadron is dedicated to trying to protect traders, protect AX commanders, etc. so that they can more easily "gank" or pirate (a legitimate game mechanic BTW) others without interference, etc).

Here's to hoping that this becomes a thing in New Era.

Tl;dr
Waaaah! I wanna shoooot people!
 
I'm all for players from all platforms that can use the same game.
What I'm not crazy about is when different player factions from different platforms go against each other in a war or an election where you cant see them or combat them as they are on a different platform.
Recently we lost our station and control of a system of a PC player faction to a PS4 player faction in an election/war . How do you fight a "player faction" if you cant see them as they are on a different platform. The reality now is that now they know they can steam roll us, They will look to take the rest of our hard fought and worked for systems as well like a greedy take take take cancer faction. They cant have the rest of the galaxy but they have to prey on our systems and we are unable to interact with them in game.
This rubbish needs to be sorted out and is ruining mine and other players in our groups gameplay.
Either
1. Make xbox, PS4 and PC all have their own galaxy to work in and interact separately
or
2 Make cross platform a reality so all platforms can see each other in game and it becomes a level playing field

I like playing against AI and I like playing against human player groups, but how do you compete with a human player group you cant see or have combat with.

Frontier have done this on the cheap to grab the console dollars and I get that , greed is good. But for game play it totally sucks as there is no game balance.
Either you make cross platform a reality like every one can see everyone like in other cross platform games i.e. sea of thieves. or give each platform its own server to interact with.
Its only a computer server. its not hard and your making a bundle of cash supporting a galaxy. get it done.
if you can't beat them at BGS, what makes you think you could beat them at PVP? lol...
 
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