Elite Dangerous Odyseey and the forgotten console players.

[amigacooke {macOS}]

That's a bit malicious.
I dont see FD wanting to sell their engine. Have you seen any sales ads for that?
They're only selling the games produced with that engine.

I'm going to have to wind my neck back in and say there is very little evidence of Frontier trying to licence the Cobra engine to other developers. I thought back in the dasy that the website suggested Cobra was available to licence, but a visit to the waybackwhen machine dispelled that notion.

My faulty memory, my mistake, my apology.

 

[[Cancelled Consoleer] boppa_]

Given Microsoft and Sony are less than happy to allow broken games on their platform (thinking of the 2077 debacle) I can see given the state of the PC release it's been delayed. Can ya imagine if fdev got removed from the store and refunds issued by the store owners, they would have lost more than a 40% share drop

4 words: Life of Black Tiger

 

[kinglemo2000]

I'll make a wild guess here that Frontier outsourced the upgrade modules for the Cobra engine and now they have to rebuild most of the purchased code themselves because it was built upon AVX instructions and these are not only a heavy hit on a PC CPU but also incompatible with any console so far.

This would also explain why Mr. Braben set the challenge to have it running on his own Core2Quad CPU once it has no support for AVX instruction set... only SSE.

I don't think it is a AVX issue playing Odyssey on my PC my 9900K machine is only sitting at about 15% usage and the odd spike on a single core hitting about 40% with Vcore only sitting at 1.27 volts and my temps rarely hitting 50c sitting mainly in the 40's. Anytime I do anything that has any sort of AVX load issue on it I would see much higher temps than that with spikes to 60 to 70c and a higher core voltage, also my CPU frequency doesn't drop in Odyssey so I know my AVX offset is not being triggered

 

[Koben]

Well, i find it hard to believe they'd do that for their inhouse developed engine. An engine used exclusively by them

Senior staff leaving the company, newcomers not enjoying working with the original Cobra Engine... seems like a good reason to upgrade it and go stream-line. You go on the market and just purchase new up-to-date lighting modules... then we've got what we got for Odyssey launch.

Purchasing precoded modules to your software is so common that the biggest recent security threat (log4j) is exactly that. Lots of companies sourcing their log system from the very same supplier.

 

[Koben]

I don't think it is a AVX issue playing Odyssey on my PC my 9900K machine is only sitting at about 15% usage and the odd spike on a single core hitting about 40% with Vcore only sitting at 1.27 volts and my temps rarely hitting 50c sitting mainly in the 40's. Anytime I do anything that has any sort of AVX load issue on it I would see much higher temps than that with spikes to 60 to 70c and a higher core voltage, also my CPU frequency doesn't drop in Odyssey so I know my AVX offset is not being triggered

I mentioned AVX as a restriction to port Odyssey to consoles, because PS4/5 and XBOXes cannot handle AVX instructions. Also, one of the reasons we had a huge stuttering on settlements is the presence of NPCs... and this is even funnier due to the fact that even Frontier mentioned the "NAVMESH" (navigation mesh for AIs to move around) as one of the causes for the problem. Guess what AVX512, which is the heaviest AVX instruction set, is mainly applied for... particle movement systems.

For a time Frontier even removed these NavMeshes from stations and settlements and we didn't see any longer NPCs walking around. They are slowly placing them back.

 

[Blithe]

As a once fairly popular console content creator for Elite Dangerous, I have held my view on Odyssey to myself to a lessen extent. But after the 2021 End of Year update and the release of Update 9, I felt I really need to jump back in the creator chair and share my thoughts, as I real feel Frontier are letting console players done with the absolute blackout on information, despite there numerous promises to get much much better at said communications.

Any in case a short video to aire my and other views..... enjoy
Also yes, I know I spelled the title wrong!

Source: https://youtu.be/_tWLBrRzceQ

The early dev kits for the PS5 that would have been available during the year or so leading up to Odyssey's release were surprisingly bare bones. I remember Digital Foundry couldn't review theirs properly because stuff was either missing or not activated.

It's still true for consumer end PS5 today as well, Sony is still not committing to things like VRS and AMD's version of DLSS, notably seen in the lack of true 'next gen' updates for games like Cyberpunk and a few others that heavily rely on RT. They are coming, but Sony isn't exactly quick about it.

I'm NOT suggesting FDev has no hand in the current situation, particularly what with being so god damn mute for providing a 'live service'. I'm just saying that Sony's delays coupled with Odyssey's terrible launch, the COVID outbreak and of course the semiconductor shortage led to something of a perfect storm situation.

 

[[Cancelled Consoleer] boppa_]

The early dev kits for the PS5 that would have been available during the year or so leading up to Odyssey's release were surprisingly bare bones. I remember Digital Foundry couldn't review theirs properly because stuff was either missing or not activated.

It's still true for consumer end PS5 today as well, Sony is still not committing to things like VRS and AMD's version of DLSS, notably seen in the lack of true 'next gen' updates for games like Cyberpunk and a few others that heavily rely on RT. They are coming, but Sony isn't exactly quick about it.

I'm NOT suggesting FDev has no hand in the current situation, particularly what with being so god damn mute for providing a 'live service'. I'm just saying that Sony's delays coupled with Odyssey's terrible launch, the COVID outbreak and of course the semiconductor shortage led to something of a perfect storm situation.

The thing is, leading up to and post-launch, Frontier loudly proclaimed that they had no plans to bring Odyssey to PS5 natively, so it was only ever planned to be playable on current gen via backwards compatibility.

 

[Sunyavadin]

The thing is, leading up to and post-launch, Frontier loudly proclaimed that they had no plans to bring Odyssey to PS5 natively, so it was only ever planned to be playable on current gen via backwards compatibility.

How many times have we heard a game "Will run on the hardware you have", or for that matter "Won't have loot boxes", etc. Publishers love to loudly proclaim one thing while not actually having a plan for accomplishing that.

 

[Blithe]

The thing is, leading up to and post-launch, Frontier loudly proclaimed that they had no plans to bring Odyssey to PS5 natively, so it was only ever planned to be playable on current gen via backwards compatibility.

I mean, they'd have to commit to PS5+ eventually. 2021 clearly wasn't the year for it, for consumers and devs alike. Maybe rather than maintaining multiple versions for the different types of PS4, they're waiting until they can fully commit to the PS5, which is probably more of a guaranteed port?

 

[Matt_BLJH]

It certainly isn't going to work on PS4. Yesterday I crashed to the blue screen three times in a 1.5 hour play session, the second time all my key bindings were wiped.

I appreciate that I was at the CG, but even when it was 'working', it was stuttering and stalling so much it was virtually unplayable.

 

[EdzUp]

I think the main issue is the disparity in processing power of the last and current gen consoles, as has been stated in Horizons before even odyssey was "released" there were issues with the base consoles mainly PS4.Everyone was recommending PS4 pro at least to get some semblance of playability.

can you imagine how it would fare now on standard PS4 and original Xbox 1 (not S/X or series lines just 1)?

would be better to go for Xbox1X and PS5 as a base line as it would give more wiggle room to play the game than deal with the issue of the console not having the right ooommmfffff to get it going.

 

[FutronBob]

I just ran a new ground CZ benchmark using the recent graphics mod that removes the atrociously unoptimized smoke effects. That mod, combined with the lowest settings at 1080p, resulted in a benchmark of 48 FPS average, a new record high for me.

I'm running a GTX 1080, an i7 7700k, and 32GB of RAM. By every possible metric I could find, that PC has 3-4 times the horsepower of a base model PS4/Xbox One. Meaning that a PS4/Xbox One player's best case scenario would be a 16 FPS average during a ground CZ. I doubt many players would be satisfied with that.

 

[Matt_BLJH]

I'm running a GTX 1080, an i7 7700k, and 32GB of RAM. By every possible metric I could find, that PC has 3-4 times the horsepower of a base model PS4/Xbox One. Meaning that a PS4/Xbox One player's best case scenario would be a 16 FPS average during a ground CZ. I doubt many players would be satisfied with that.

This is why I am not expecting to see Odyssey on the PS4, ever. I am pretty much resigned to it now, but I would like it actually spelled out by FDev, so I can decide how I will play in the future, or whether I want to.

 

[[Cancelled Consoleer] boppa_]

I would like it actually spelled out by FDev, so I can decide how I will play in the future, or whether I want to.

Agree. I'd have preferred that to have been announced in Dec 2020, rather than have been kept hanging on since mid-2021 (and for who knows how much longer?)

 

[Blithe]

This is why I am not expecting to see Odyssey on the PS4, ever. I am pretty much resigned to it now, but I would like it actually spelled out by FDev, so I can decide how I will play in the future, or whether I want to.

I could see a lot work on the Pro via upscaling from low internal resolutions. Checkerboard rendering isn't FSR, but it will do in a pinch. Remember, the Pro is a beast still, only a few years old. The catch here isn't FDev but Sony itself I think. I'm pretty sure they don't want 480p/720p upscaled footage out there that makes their second-best console look like a Switch. Traditionally the tech is used on consoles to upscale already large frames to 4K and such. I can't recall an instance where the tech was used at low internal resolution on purpose, not on consoles at least.

 

[Blithe]

Oh Elite on a Switch would be something to marvel at.

 

[sandkid]

I just ran a new ground CZ benchmark using the recent graphics mod that removes the atrociously unoptimized smoke effects. That mod, combined with the lowest settings at 1080p, resulted in a benchmark of 48 FPS average, a new record high for me.

I'm running a GTX 1080, an i7 7700k, and 32GB of RAM. By every possible metric I could find, that PC has 3-4 times the horsepower of a base model PS4/Xbox One. Meaning that a PS4/Xbox One player's best case scenario would be a 16 FPS average during a ground CZ. I doubt many players would be satisfied with that.

That's why I also don't think it will ever come to lastgen...which stinks, since I've yet to get a PS5 anyways.

EDO was built, from the ground up, without console in mind. Heck, judging by how the PC crowd has reacted in the months since launch...it was built from the ground up without most PCs in mind. There's a part of me that wants to say, "It's just really bad coding. That's it. Some developers have the chops, some don't. This is a case of they don't."

Except...I don't think that's the case. Not entirely.
EDO isn't just unoptimized.
It's fundamentally built wrong. Not rookie mistakes - which I'm hardly the pro to call out, mind you - but straight up not built to basic standards of, "This is how you keep stuff straight to avoid classic errors we've been documenting since HTML was all the rage and Dreamweaver was the future of the internet."

I dunno if they have unskilled developers, or if the development management is just that slapdash - I'm inclined towards the latter - but it shows. Not just in EDO, anymore, but even Horizons as they patch in these last months. There are just so many missteps with basic QoL and not breaking more code...

It's not spaghetti alone. You can still straighten out spaghetti code. It gets messy, sure, but you can always resolve to a (slightly) more stable experience with time.
This? This is going backwards, and it's not even to console yet. And it never will be.

Somebody said it earlier: it would be a slaughter.
Of a Cyberpunk Sony pulls the plug it's so bad slaughter.

And that speaks volumes about FDev and how EDO is built. To have a pretty smooth running game - Elite Horizons - on PS4, then create an expansion that is so horribly designed you can't even risk it launching because of the backlash. The calculus in the board room, I guarantee, is this:

It is better to eat the salt of console players waiting in silence than cobble together an alpha, call it an alpha with all the necessary warnings, and give them a stab at it.
Because it wouldn't even make muster as an alpha.

 

[CMDR KCalo]

it was built from the ground up without most PCs in mind

It's not Frontier's fault that Quantum computing isn't mainstream yet!

 

[EdzUp]

It's not Frontier's fault that Quantum computing isn't mainstream yet!

Who said anything about quantum computing fdev are looking to the tech after that so they can run Odyssey at a respectable frame rate

 

[Druner]

That's why I also don't think it will ever come to lastgen...which stinks, since I've yet to get a PS5 anyways.

EDO was built, from the ground up, without console in mind. Heck, judging by how the PC crowd has reacted in the months since launch...it was built from the ground up without most PCs in mind. There's a part of me that wants to say, "It's just really bad coding. That's it. Some developers have the chops, some don't. This is a case of they don't."

Except...I don't think that's the case. Not entirely.
EDO isn't just unoptimized.
It's fundamentally built wrong. Not rookie mistakes - which I'm hardly the pro to call out, mind you - but straight up not built to basic standards of, "This is how you keep stuff straight to avoid classic errors we've been documenting since HTML was all the rage and Dreamweaver was the future of the internet."

I dunno if they have unskilled developers, or if the development management is just that slapdash - I'm inclined towards the latter - but it shows. Not just in EDO, anymore, but even Horizons as they patch in these last months. There are just so many missteps with basic QoL and not breaking more code...

It's not spaghetti alone. You can still straighten out spaghetti code. It gets messy, sure, but you can always resolve to a (slightly) more stable experience with time.
This? This is going backwards, and it's not even to console yet. And it never will be.

Somebody said it earlier: it would be a slaughter.
Of a Cyberpunk Sony pulls the plug it's so bad slaughter.

And that speaks volumes about FDev and how EDO is built. To have a pretty smooth running game - Elite Horizons - on PS4, then create an expansion that is so horribly designed you can't even risk it launching because of the backlash. The calculus in the board room, I guarantee, is this:

It is better to eat the salt of console players waiting in silence than cobble together an alpha, call it an alpha with all the necessary warnings, and give them a stab at it.
Because it wouldn't even make muster as an alpha.

This feels like the New World disaster all overt again.

A impressive (at first look) game that reveals with time more and more rookie mistakes in coding.
New world is on its deathbed. I wonder were Elite is.