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V38

V
Ian Doncaster said:
Although if so they probably also need to do this for people heavily reinforcing systems near the border with another Power's space, or it just becomes another reason not to attack.
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If the points scaled up as the enemies did it could provide a good incentive to attack.

Rubbernuke said:
And this is why I want a graded response based on your efforts (as I outline). So if you are #1 and pour tens of thousands of merits into your power then you see more attention than someone at #100 who rival power NPCs ignore in SC and the NPCs you see.

What I never want to see is a universally hard game for everyone 'just because'. What FD made a mistake on is having NPCs spawn everywhere you drop without context. Effort and location should be defined better, which would then make PvE better in PP2.
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It'd probably be best for players that the biggest combat response is for the biggest combat players, rather than strictly basing it on merits. I think it's more likely to keep everyone happy if Trucker boy shipping reinforcement goods over and over again doesn't really warrant other factions sending death squads 20 systems deep into his territory, not that that wouldn't be funny.
It'd probably wind up most fun and useful to use a bunch of metrics, have another sort of 'notoriety score' specific to enemy powers that rises more for undermining their stuff, working near their frontline, killing their players, sabotaging their stuff etc.

CaptainPugwash said:
Trouble is: it's very unlikely they'll even make NPCS more difficult as there is always some one who will protest. They could have started with high difficulty, weathered the initial storm, then players will have eventually adapted as they normally do.
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I think the aim/hope of Rubbernuke's posts is to make it harder specifically for the players who want (or at least, deserve) a harder experience, for the system to push back when gankers and experienced combat players give it a shove. Right now there's only the advanced tactical response thing for that which isn't very dynamic and doesn't really work with PP.
 

Cmdr Sharky

Cmdr Sharky
Kruzadar said:
Does anyone know what time Frontier Unlocked is supposed to come out today?I think it's scheduled for today.
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According to their Twitch schedule:
1746013458176.png
 

Rubbernuke

Rubbernuke
V38 said:
It'd probably be best for players that the biggest combat response is for the biggest combat players, rather than strictly basing it on merits. I think it's more likely to keep everyone happy if Trucker boy shipping reinforcement goods over and over again doesn't really warrant other factions sending death squads 20 systems deep into his territory, not that that wouldn't be funny.
It'd probably wind up most fun and useful to use a bunch of metrics, have another sort of 'notoriety score' specific to enemy powers that rises more for undermining their stuff, working near their frontline, killing their players, sabotaging their stuff etc.
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Cargo ships should be subject to attack if they are helping keep systems alive, its very much targeting supply lines that keep systems afloat.

For example hauling merits close to (or on) border systems should be more dangerous and rewarding, and that if you continually do it week after week you'll have stronger NPC responses compared to if you alternate between safer areas away from the front lines- that or team up in Open or PG.

In the end its escaping the misconception PP is universally safe. Its not, you are pledged to one of 12 powers and 11 others want to see you fail. You even get rebuy costs paid, so the loss is minimal. To me (and this is foirmly IMO) that provides context for hauling and prevents it becoming just trucking without context.
 

Cmdr Sharky

Cmdr Sharky
If anyone wants a nice rare goods loop, here's one I made many years ago:
docs.google.com

Rare Goods Grid Shared

docs.google.com docs.google.com

That's all the "bubble" rare goods that existed at the time, minus a few whose station was a long way from the star or permit locked, arranged into a somewhat optimized loop. Pick a starting point, and go round them one by one buying goods. When the cross-reference from the station you bought it to your current station goes green or blue, you can sell the rare goods for maximum profit. The second sheet is all the "others" - new and locked and distant stations.
 

Ian Doncaster

Ian Doncaster
Rubbernuke said:
For example hauling merits close to (or on) border systems should be more dangerous and rewarding
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Though "hauling" and "danger" don't really fit together in Elite Dangerous.
- hit SCO boost
- fast supercruise approach
- drop into destination instance before the NPCs after you have spawned / detached themselves from the star's gravity well
Sure, you can use the Pirate Approved Slow Approach if you actually want a fight, but then we're back to a threat which only affects beginners and experts can ignore.

It'd need much wider changes to get past that, which I don't think could easily be contained to Powerplay, and would require further rebalancing of a lot of other things.
 

V38

V
Rubbernuke said:
Cargo ships should be subject to attack if they are helping keep systems alive, its very much targeting supply lines that keep systems afloat.

For example hauling merits close to (or on) border systems should be more dangerous and rewarding, and that if you continually do it week after week you'll have stronger NPC responses compared to if you alternate between safer areas away from the front lines- that or team up in Open or PG.

In the end its escaping the misconception PP is universally safe. Its not, you are pledged to one of 12 powers and 11 others want to see you fail. You even get rebuy costs paid, so the loss is minimal. To me (and this is foirmly IMO) that provides context for hauling and prevents it becoming just trucking without context.
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I don't doubt that cargo shippers would be a valid target, but I think it risks irritating a lot of the playerbase if they feel unduly singled out, I can't exactly speak for the whole community but my impression is a lot of people just tend to do their own thing and that being harried for pledging wouldn't really add anything to their experience.
Trust me I want dynamic threats, it's just worth pointing out that if you pushed the levers for making powerplay feel unsafe too far it'd probably wind up feeling like open play, where huge swathes of people just don't engage with it at all, maybe people would just rush the modules they want and then bail like PP1 or people would start micromanaging merit 'danger thresholds' or flying trader wings more often or just abusing SCO boosting all the harder, hauling to safer destinations or even just quitting the game.
What I'm saying is I don't think you can force the people who avoid combat right now to engage with it and I don't think Fdev want to risk alienating the space truckers.
 

Rubbernuke

Rubbernuke
Ian Doncaster said:
Though "hauling" and "danger" don't really fit together in Elite Dangerous.
- hit SCO boost
- fast supercruise approach
- drop into destination instance before the NPCs after you have spawned / detached themselves from the star's gravity well
Sure, you can use the Pirate Approved Slow Approach if you actually want a fight, but then we're back to a threat which only affects beginners and experts can ignore.

It'd need much wider changes to get past that, which I don't think could easily be contained to Powerplay, and would require further rebalancing of a lot of other things.
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True- in the past I've moaned hard about how navs are vestigial and drop zones too small.

For example, if you removed stations as end points and had hidden trader mechanics as drop offs, you'd solve nearly every issue via gameplay. But then too if you have a casual hauler who does a few thousand merits a week the NPCs would not be that interested in you. And ATR like ships can shoot a long, long way- I'd make the biowaste if I dropped out thinking I was safe and a sniper fried my ship like that. "Patty sends his regards!" type thing. So really its living with the consequences all the time for that week, and decoupling what you did with how you get attacked.

But for things like mining and passive loitering, you'd need to be more wary.
 

Rubbernuke

Rubbernuke
V38 said:
I don't doubt that cargo shippers would be a valid target, but I think it risks irritating a lot of the playerbase if they feel unduly singled out, I can't exactly speak for the whole community but my impression is a lot of people just tend to do their own thing and that being harried for pledging wouldn't really add anything to their experience.
Trust me I want dynamic threats, it's just worth pointing out that if you pushed the levers for making powerplay feel unsafe too far it'd probably wind up feeling like open play, where huge swathes of people just don't engage with it at all, maybe people would just rush the modules they want and then bail like PP1 or people would start micromanaging merit 'danger thresholds' or flying trader wings more often or just abusing SCO boosting all the harder, hauling to safer destinations or even just quitting the game.
What I'm saying is I don't think you can force the people who avoid combat right now to engage with it and I don't think Fdev want to risk alienating the space truckers.
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But then that feeling undermines (excuse the pun) Powerplay being the 'us v them' feature. At some point NPCs should come for you, and its your job to keep ahead of that for as long as you can. Otherwise, why have free rebuys you never use?
 

Rosey Rozenkreuz

Rosey Rozenkreuz
I would like to say that almost all issues with powerplay come from being able to effect it while in solo and pg. There is no counterplay to hiding in pg/solo other than overwhelm with more merits. This inherently puts open focused groups with strong pvp cultures at a disadvantage. The endless imperial hoards can just hide away in pg.

Powerplay should be about player v player at both a micro and a macro level but in reality only a couple of groups actually maintain and encourage direct pvp, while imperial groups are notorious for not only allowing but encouraging pg/solo.

Make PP great again, make PP open only!
 
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