Elite:Dangerous Visuals

[Cosmo Bozo]

Not all of the ships are gleaming chrome: look at the concept art of the Viper Mk 3 - it's clearly got some weathering to it.

It would be great if they started off gleaming when new and gain weathering as time goes on - with the option to have it 'rebuffed', for a fee of course. Can you imagine a brand new Imperial Courier?

Paint jobs have been mentioned, so Id' imagine a lick of paint could spruce up your ship....would be cool if it got worn and faded
...or if the paint was burnt off where you've taken hits, maybe a repaired section could be bare metal till you paint it...or am I getting too in depth?

 

[Zplintz]

That's asking for trouble!

Aye - just imagine how many chests and genitals (of various sizes) you would see....No on second thoughts - don't imagine that...

 

[Sir.Tj]

Aye - just imagine how many chests and genitals (of various sizes) you would see....No on second thoughts - don't imagine that...

Just imagined it......

Not something that should be in the game. Too many opportunities for the images mentioned.

 

[Robot Wizard Games]

I have to agree with those that say good Lighting is key and it has been said that FD have their own lighting engine. The lighting I thought was good in the demos given the early stage of development. I personally like when there is good contrast as shown on the asteroids, although the asteroids need more work in their shapes and texture.

It is of course about design as much as technical prowess. Elite design is showing now as in the past to be spot on for me. Also less is often more and not having loads of space dust all over the place is another reason I like the look of this game. The concept art is simply fabulous and again shows the really good design the team have.

 

[ak-73]

@ak-73: Many of those ideas sound interesting, and I definitely agree about contrast and how important light and shadow are to making compelling space environments. The dark side of the moon should be really, really dark. Also stark shadows on space stations, etc. a la 2001.

If you had any footage you could share of your twinkling star-field, and other work, I'm sure we'd all love to see it. It sounds cool.

Okay, I uploaded a video of a Space Combat Game I started to code years ago. Prepare for a bit of programmer's art and all. Plus it's Work-In-Progress too.

So let me just point out: It's not a demo, it's not in anyway a professional work of art. The models, textures, etc. look better in ED teasers than in here. I am not even trying to compare, okay?

The point of this vid is rather to give you guys an imagination of what might be possible if one was to combine the highly polished textures and detailed models of ED with some of the stuff I have been experimenting with here. And to give the whole thing a bit more of polish (my game would really benefit from HDR, as you will see)

When watching this vid, please keep in mind that the main ship model, you'll see is actually untextured (!) and has about 500 polygons for the hull, most of them not even really visible.

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?v=331265366988509

There's of course a number of things wrong with the engine, Im aware of that. And I also exaggerated the starfield twinkling to make it more visible (its visibility depends also actually on whether you look towards the sun or not).
The pronounced lighting itself is addictive, I can assure you. Just watching the glow, the glare, the reflections... like taking a bath in the sun.

But more importantly, why I am bringing this up: this visual style allows for continuation of the Elite brand of spaceships... simple forms. With proper lighting of highly reflective surfaces, you don't need a high polycount. Even a relatively low poly Viper or Sidewinder would look good. You don't need (but can have nonethless!) too much detail. Big, flat surfaces are good, as you can see in the demo. Now smoothly-shaped curves would also be good regarding reflection.

But the point is: to me it's not about texture quality or polygon count, leave that to other games. It's about the lighting and post-processing effects you can squeeze into the frame count.


Alex


tl; dr = Elite should be different. The normal visual style of Wing Commander has played out. We have seen that too often. I think Elite should go the way of less polygons and less hi-res textures and more lighting effects.

 

[deMangler]

What I liked about the original Elite was that the visuals simply provided a scaffolding for a rich inner experience.
Eventually you were paying more attention to what was going on in your imagination than what you were seeing. A bit like reading a really good book. Eventually you stop seeing the words and just get sucked in.
Now I know things have moved on now. And I accept and am even delighted in the fact that this is intended to be a re-make of Elite that makes use of modern tech.
However I see it as being important that the visual elements are all consistent with an immersive experience and that elements that detract from immersion are not left in just because they are pretty. An obvious example here is the immersion breaking extreme nebulosity of some games.
Another thing is that the visuals need to be consistent on there own terms. One problem with Elite and Frontier was the scale. There was just no way that the space stations could contain all the ships you saw docking and it was necessary to make a deliberate effort to ignore this.
I hope that the design philosophy for dangerous avoids these issues. From the blogs and interviews it looks like it'll be all good.

 

[commanderQuinn]

I also agree on the principle of lower polygons and fancier lighting. Take the Return Of The Cobra video - the Cobra MkIII looked amazing because it's edges were distinct. It leant the ship a really tangible feel. Now, I understand the the Cobra textures used on the update from Frontier were probably lower-res than the final version, but I was worried that it made the hull look too curved, rather than angular. Sure, make a curved hull ship, but call it the Cobra MkIV.

I think the original ship designs can be made to look fantastic by just adding surface detail and good lighting. Again, Return Of The Cobra is the gold standard of how good these ships could look. Yes I know the pre-rendered vs in-game is an apples and oranges comparison, but art direction and model design carries over, especially if we're talking about lower polygon designs.

 

[ak-73]

I also agree on the principle of lower polygons and fancier lighting. Take the Return Of The Cobra video - the Cobra MkIII looked amazing because it's edges were distinct. It leant the ship a really tangible feel. Now, I understand the the Cobra textures used on the update from Frontier were probably lower-res than the final version, but I was worried that it made the hull look too curved, rather than angular. Sure, make a curved hull ship, but call it the Cobra MkIV.

I think the original ship designs can be made to look fantastic by just adding surface detail and good lighting. Again, Return Of The Cobra is the gold standard of how good these ships could look. Yes I know the pre-rendered vs in-game is an apples and oranges comparison, but art direction and model design carries over, especially if we're talking about lower polygon designs.

The game will feature a lower polygon count than in other games anyway because there is simply fewer objects in space, discounting debris of ships im going to blow up or asteroid fields.

They are trying to take advantage of the sparsity exactly by enabling debris, etc. in my mind. When they should go extra fancy on hdr lighting, shadowing, bloom, trails, etc.

Alex

 

[Mobius]

Hi, first post, be gentle please.

I would like to debate the visuals of Eliteangerous.

While certainly nicely looking, they're just not quite right for me. If you compare them to other space games, these kinda look samey because the engine delivers the same kinda flat spaceship surfaces.

im not up for the idea of shiney space ships, and JJ Abrams lens flairs.

take a quick peek at this selection of space ships and notice the Matt finish on all ships, this in my eyes is a relistic look for what a space ship should look like.
space is full of space dust and thus collects on the hull of space craft, ships in elite are traders, bounty hunters and explorers and with that much traveling fighting and orbit re entrys ships will look used

CLICK HERE TO SEE WHAT I MEAN

 

[Oddball]

Most games let you adjust the Level Of Detail (LOD) and I would assume that ED would be no different.

I thought about this a few weeks ago and thought about possibly 'future proofing' the game were the quality of graphics is concerned. I really hope that there will be an 'Ultra Max' setting in the graphics department so that the top PC's of today would actually struggle a little to keep a good frame rate. This would 'future proof' the game to some extent because in ten years time (when new PC's would be much faster) the game would still look visually amazing.

 

[ak-73]

Does that look dusty?

Anyway, it's not about realism. ED, in my mind, should exactly avoid the matte finish that is prevalent in most games and renders. Reflections is good. Glare is beautiful.

Alex

 

[Cmdr Sharky]

Okay, I uploaded a video of a Space Combat Game I started to code years ago... It's not a demo, it's not in anyway a professional work of art. The models, textures, etc. look better in ED teasers than in here. I am not even trying to compare, okay?

Wow. That was pretty awesome. The over-saturated light and shadow was really cool, I've never seen anything like that in a game. I suspect that it might become a bit annoying after a while though!

 

[deMangler]

Another thing that springs to mind is contrast.
Space visuals for me are all about extremes of contrast and hard edges. No unnecessary ambient lighting. However most people just do not think that this looks good.
I expect to be able to customise the look to the extent that this does not need to be completely consistent between players, but no more. For example the information represented needs to be the same otherwise multiplayer immersion is broken.

 

[ak-73]

Wow. That was pretty awesome. The over-saturated light and shadow was really cool, I've never seen anything like that in a game. I suspect that it might become a bit annoying after a while though!

Thank you, but it needs more tuning.

Well, it all naturally varies with the intensity of the sunlight and the distance to the sun (which I haven't coded yet, I wanted to see how much I can squeeze out of it). So it won't get annoying.

And it was naturally inspired by The Dark Wheel. And the final duel of that short story, if you remember.

Alex

 

[Karl]

Spaceships should vary in "cleanness" with the shape its in. But this worries me less. I'm more concerned about the general art direction and where it's going. Elite for me used to be pretty "black and dull", with greater focus on realism than visuals. I get so much visuals in all other space games I'm fully saturated.

In terms of art direction, here is what I want:
* Space is black. And dull. In systems with one star, it might be okay to increase background 1-2% to separate bodies from background, but please - stay away from that "have to show oversaturated environment" is all systems that we know too well from all other space games. If these are used at all, keep them at least spaced VERY far apart to actually make them special. Nebulae is old, overused, and completely unrealistic.
* Shadows and shade are black. And dull. Too many other games use way to much unexplained ambient lighting. So in complete dark space, what exactly is it that brightens all parts of a ship or planet? It makes no sense, and takes much away from at least my immersion.
* Proper shading of planets please. Example of moon, earth, and saturn. The Lambertian model just doesn't do it well enough.
* Unless specific, well explained, or temporal in time, I really don't want to see a space that is full of dust. Screenshots I've seen so far worries me. I want to immerse myself in actual space, not submerse myself in dirty water.

Elite 2 Frontier was highly educational, and probably boosted many minds to getting into star gazing. I want that to continue, but stay within reasonable levels as far as complete fantasy goes. Let Eve, X-games, and the rest of them deal with that. Let ED remain truer to reality.

I should be ecstatic, but I'm skeptic.

 

[ak-73]

Spaceships should vary in "cleanness" with the shape its in. But this worries me less. I'm more concerned about the general art direction and where it's going. Elite for me used to be pretty "black and dull", with greater focus on realism than visuals. I get so much visuals in all other space games I'm fully saturated.

In terms of art direction, here is what I want:
* Space is black. And dull. In systems with one star, it might be okay to increase background 1-2% to separate bodies from background, but please - stay away from that "have to show oversaturated environment" is all systems that we know too well from all other space games. If these are used at all, keep them at least spaced VERY far apart to actually make them special. Nebulae is old, overused, and completely unrealistic.

About space: space is very black but its also full of stars which the photos from space simply dont capture. Personally I am going more for the fictional side of Elite than the simulationist. Games are not meant to be dull. Elite isn't a space simulation, it just has picked up elements of that in the past.

I'd rather go for unrealistic but good-looking twinkling star fields as can be seen in my above vid. The non-static, blooming effect of it makes other games' static starfields look rather simple.

As for the rest I agree with you. That's why I originally posted: I would like to see a high contrast between light and shadow. In fact visibility should be an issue. A cone shaped spaceship with the the light of the sun at an angle behind it will be very difficult to detect visually.

It's different in orbit, of course.


Alex

 

[Steven]

Elite 2 Frontier was highly educational, and probably boosted many minds to getting into star gazing. I want that to continue, but stay within reasonable levels as far as complete fantasy goes. Let Eve, X-games, and the rest of them deal with that. Let ED remain truer to reality.

I should be ecstatic, but I'm skeptic.

I agree with your point Karl, and I hope classic sci-fi realism is what makes it to the final release, and visuals such as those we're so used to seeing in shows & movies such as the Star Trek series (who have always lent towards recreating visual realism wherever possible) are used in the game.

Using fake/false ambient lighting just to make a spaceship look good on screen is a definite no no in my opinion. Realism is about staying true to nature, so if space is black and there's only one light source (such as a star/nebula) then the shadows on planets and ships should be black as the surrounding space is.

 

[StarTux]

Nice little video . Elite has a darker look to it, which I like, but there should be reflections where appropriate for sure.

As for the star fields, having gone through full screen HD on the dev diaries I think they have them pretty much spot on already and adding twinkling even subtly isn't going to look good and may even be a distraction, however once we get planetary landings perhaps its something they can then add. I've seen your demo and even taking into account that you have exaggerated the twinkling it reminds me of an atmosphere, or even Christmas for some reason . It just doesn't seem to be Elite.

Just my 2 cents

 

[Alan the Armadillo]

Hi,

I dont think spaceships should be shiny or chromey for me thats unrealistic, within a couple of light years the ship would be scored with particle damage docking scratches and all sorts. the super realistic car driving game with chrome and shiney paint looks far to crisp for real life to me, after washing my car a few miles down the road and its not all that clean any more.

However;
slightly dirty cars still shine and glisten in the sun with the same flare you describe but on the other hand trucks and ships do not, thats because they are industrial and take the battering of trading and constant use without washing unlike personal cars do, taken in the context of space trading and dangerous encounters I think the style of graphics fit if a bit too bright.

The way it should be;
The words a writer uses to describe the look and feel of an environment is often the way he/she wishes to get you in the mood to put the picture in your head for you to believe the situation and shouldn't betaken as red that thats what it should look like in reality.

Foot note;
Some of the visual effects you describe are indeed needed to bring new and improved game play, the idea the star should cast shadows and glare effecting the way you can track an opponent in a space battle is almost essential if your looking through glass type substance into space (in the original elite I told myself you were looking at a computer screen displaying whats out there in a vector style as to improve you safety) but including these effects in elite 4 would have an advantage to the feel of battle, being able to slip past an enemy by flying at the sun or turning off you engines as you pass into shadow would be a tactical advantage for a good pilot.

All in all a good point although I don't believe in all of it.

Happy eliteing

 

[Alan the Armadillo]

Does that look dusty?

Alex

Nasa have a white theme goin on, should all ships be white lol, not exactly a trading ship nore industrial in my opinion but a fabulous picture all the same including the right kind of feel I think your after, matt ships I also agree on, real ships and cars dont very often come with a matt finish