Whilst we are at it, what about implementing a shader to show the searchlight effect or the Lorentz transformation at extreme relativistic speeds.
Elite:Dangerous Visuals
- Thread starter ak-73
- Start date
Whilst we are at it, what about implementing a shader to show the searchlight effect or the Lorentz transformation at extreme relativistic speeds.
Sorry guys if this has already been mentioned I missed out the middle of the thread but David has said that he wanted the look of a ship to change depending on the age of it in game.
This would be done via procedural generation so that an weathered older ship would almost be a badge of honor as it demonstrates the pilots ability to keep it flying !
I like this idea along with maybe some of this being effected when you put in for repairs.
This would be done via procedural generation so that an weathered older ship would almost be a badge of honor as it demonstrates the pilots ability to keep it flying !
I like this idea along with maybe some of this being effected when you put in for repairs.
Agreed that hard-edged lighting and verisimilitude is a good way to distinguish this game from others.
There was a certain austerity in the wireframe models of the original Elite, which lent it the elegance of 2001 and NASA footage. What's the point of having it look like Space Blam Wars III HD? This game has pedigree.
There was a certain austerity in the wireframe models of the original Elite, which lent it the elegance of 2001 and NASA footage. What's the point of having it look like Space Blam Wars III HD? This game has pedigree.
I wonder if you could go for a mix. Generally matt ships but with deliberately shiny parts either for pure visual bling or for camouflage. Picture the scene...
"Kevan took a final glance over his instrument board. This mark was more savvy than most, quiet on most EM bands and that matte paint job made optical recognition tricky. Not that you ever eyeballed a ship directly from this distance of course but the tracking arrays did a pretty reliable job of glint analysis. Even a heavily camoed ship had the occasional worn spot, battle damage, micrometeoroid scars, a multitude of sparkles that could be pieced together by the right software.
Probability analysis: 95% Eagle LRF, 82% Constrictor, 54% Adder.
Good enough. A surprise attack should make easy pickings of a Constrictor and as for the other two. It was time to end this.
The Fer-de-Lance pounced. Main drive on full, vectoring towards the target. Missiles locked on and...
Detonating silently in the darkness. A backwash of radiation and electronic noise from a military grade active ECM system destroying Kevan's tracking systems. And an actinic flare of radiation filling his cockpit as a dreadfully familiar twin drive trail lit up the vacuum.
Polarising filters slammed into place in a fraction of a second but it was far far too late. Kevan managed a last horrified look at the threat board. Multiple missiles heading for his position, enemy ECM on full, plasma accelerator cannons powering up...
The Imperial Trader resumed it's leisurely cruise towards Topaz. Behind it, a slowly dissipating cloud of metal fragments and the occasional tatter of flash frozen meat sparkled in the sunlight."
"Kevan took a final glance over his instrument board. This mark was more savvy than most, quiet on most EM bands and that matte paint job made optical recognition tricky. Not that you ever eyeballed a ship directly from this distance of course but the tracking arrays did a pretty reliable job of glint analysis. Even a heavily camoed ship had the occasional worn spot, battle damage, micrometeoroid scars, a multitude of sparkles that could be pieced together by the right software.
Probability analysis: 95% Eagle LRF, 82% Constrictor, 54% Adder.
Good enough. A surprise attack should make easy pickings of a Constrictor and as for the other two. It was time to end this.
The Fer-de-Lance pounced. Main drive on full, vectoring towards the target. Missiles locked on and...
Detonating silently in the darkness. A backwash of radiation and electronic noise from a military grade active ECM system destroying Kevan's tracking systems. And an actinic flare of radiation filling his cockpit as a dreadfully familiar twin drive trail lit up the vacuum.
Polarising filters slammed into place in a fraction of a second but it was far far too late. Kevan managed a last horrified look at the threat board. Multiple missiles heading for his position, enemy ECM on full, plasma accelerator cannons powering up...
The Imperial Trader resumed it's leisurely cruise towards Topaz. Behind it, a slowly dissipating cloud of metal fragments and the occasional tatter of flash frozen meat sparkled in the sunlight."
AK-73:
Very impressive tech demo, but I must say that the extensive bloom effect doesn't suit me very well. I feel like I'm looking through a pair of foggy glasses.
I think bloom is great, but in my opinion it can easily be overdone.
That being said, you can't really judge the final game by what you've seen in the Developer's Diaries so far. Graphics are (from what I've read) often one of the last things that are tweaked - first make it run, then make it render fast and pretty.
I'd love to see awesome reflections on ships, stations, etc. - but I think a dirty and beaten up ship should reflect being just that (pardon the pun ;o) - dirty and beaten up, and not be shiny.
I wouldn't like a ship to look like it's covered in chrome. I'ts ok in places, but overdone it becomes irritating to me.
Very impressive tech demo, but I must say that the extensive bloom effect doesn't suit me very well. I feel like I'm looking through a pair of foggy glasses.
I think bloom is great, but in my opinion it can easily be overdone.
That being said, you can't really judge the final game by what you've seen in the Developer's Diaries so far. Graphics are (from what I've read) often one of the last things that are tweaked - first make it run, then make it render fast and pretty.
I'd love to see awesome reflections on ships, stations, etc. - but I think a dirty and beaten up ship should reflect being just that (pardon the pun ;o) - dirty and beaten up, and not be shiny.
I wouldn't like a ship to look like it's covered in chrome. I'ts ok in places, but overdone it becomes irritating to me.
I see no reason why shiny ships should not be allowed, but they would be v.v. expensive bling to create and maintain (avoiding 'weathering').
We do have a rich heritage with Elite, and I totally agree we should keep this 'UK' (2001, Blade Runner, Alien (Ridley Scott) etc) not US (Star Wars/Trek/Starship Troopers/Aliens) but UK is also Iain M Banks. Granted we'll never have Ship AIs but he wrote some totally awesome ship descriptions which could translate into this universe. I wonder if any of Frontier are Banks fans?
We do have a rich heritage with Elite, and I totally agree we should keep this 'UK' (2001, Blade Runner, Alien (Ridley Scott) etc) not US (Star Wars/Trek/Starship Troopers/Aliens) but UK is also Iain M Banks. Granted we'll never have Ship AIs but he wrote some totally awesome ship descriptions which could translate into this universe. I wonder if any of Frontier are Banks fans?
Thanx.
Well, indeed I tried to see how much I can squeeze out of it without HDR, advanced shaders and more sophisticated techniques. These are kinda the maximum settings without such. At the end of the video I am flying towards the sun... I imagine the degree of bloom throughout the window would be justified during a battle near the sun (think mercury and closer). With the whole thing fading off as you go further away. At Pluto you won't have too much of it anymore. Of course I love to see it being slightly exaggerated vis-a-vis reality. A bit of fiction can't hurt.
Alex
PS The actual game is also slightly crispier than the FB vid.
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And would need to be replaced (polished?) after taking serious kinetic damage or after a prolonged atmospheric flight.
Okay, here's an additional thought about lighting you guys may not have thought about yet and why it's so important (imho):
There seems to be pretty much consensus in this thread that there should be no ambient lighting at all (unless in orbit of a planet, I guess). Makes sense too - you only have real light source (other stars dont count).
So did it ever occur to you that fights might take place in the shadow of a celestial body? So I think we need actual searchlights as upgradeson our spaceships... and we'll be going with that, as a side-product, where other space games didn't go in combat. Imagine that... you playing a space pirate, trapping hapless other players who did go cheap and didn't buy the searchlight. You just need to be calculating trajectories properly for precise interception...
Also, shouldn't launching attacks with the sun right behind you be a factor? (Of course only if it happens sufficiently near to the sun.) Actually that's what I'd love to see in Elite: 2 or 3 Mamba pirates ambushing, coming right of the direction of the sun, where they are hard to make out and target...
Again: I am advocating for extreme lighting... bright sun glare, reflective surfaces (and you know they won't be too common in the game for they might make you more visible to pirates; bounty hunters might loooove them), close-sun planets like mercury rendered with bloom effect and dark, dark shadows.
It's not a big deal in other games; in a realistic space fight it would be (depending on location!) and I think it should be in Elite.
Alex
There seems to be pretty much consensus in this thread that there should be no ambient lighting at all (unless in orbit of a planet, I guess). Makes sense too - you only have real light source (other stars dont count).
So did it ever occur to you that fights might take place in the shadow of a celestial body? So I think we need actual searchlights as upgradeson our spaceships... and we'll be going with that, as a side-product, where other space games didn't go in combat. Imagine that... you playing a space pirate, trapping hapless other players who did go cheap and didn't buy the searchlight. You just need to be calculating trajectories properly for precise interception...
Also, shouldn't launching attacks with the sun right behind you be a factor? (Of course only if it happens sufficiently near to the sun.) Actually that's what I'd love to see in Elite: 2 or 3 Mamba pirates ambushing, coming right of the direction of the sun, where they are hard to make out and target...
Again: I am advocating for extreme lighting... bright sun glare, reflective surfaces (and you know they won't be too common in the game for they might make you more visible to pirates; bounty hunters might loooove them), close-sun planets like mercury rendered with bloom effect and dark, dark shadows.
It's not a big deal in other games; in a realistic space fight it would be (depending on location!) and I think it should be in Elite.
Alex
There will be so many ships buzzing around a space station that I think they would have self lighting, in order for other ships to see them (unless they're going stealthy). Space stations would also illuminate themselves for the same reason.
Ian Phillips
Volunteer Moderator
I "must" have one of those extremely shiny ships for my pirate vessel, just the thing for sneaking up on unsuspecting victims!
It's OK if you want to attract attention - but will that really be a good idea?
It's OK if you want to attract attention - but will that really be a good idea?
Self-shadowing?
Hmm..
On the subject of visuals... Have we heard anything about self shadowing?
It's a detail that really appeals to me in space/scifi imagery - the sharp line of a cast shadow crawling over the surface of a ship or station as it slowly rotates.
Arguably a superficial aesthetic detail - but I likes it!
Haven't spotted it in any videos so far, but of course it's early days.
What do people think? Anything been heard?
Hmm..
On the subject of visuals... Have we heard anything about self shadowing?
It's a detail that really appeals to me in space/scifi imagery - the sharp line of a cast shadow crawling over the surface of a ship or station as it slowly rotates.
Arguably a superficial aesthetic detail - but I likes it!
Haven't spotted it in any videos so far, but of course it's early days.
What do people think? Anything been heard?
I didn't see it mentioned in the thread, so I will repost here what David Braben said on that topic :
(from Reddit AMA )
"DavidBraben 12 points, 4 days after
Yes. We are already using procedurally generated textures. Aging and dirtying up of surfaces will also help make a new ship look shiny and an older ship look travel-worn. I like the idea of being able to get an idea by looking at a landed ship how much experience the pilot is likely to have. I love the idea that a battered ship is a sort of 'badge of office'."
I think it's pretty safe to assume that new ships will be somewhat shiny, old ones will not. I like that
(from Reddit AMA )
"DavidBraben 12 points, 4 days after
Yes. We are already using procedurally generated textures. Aging and dirtying up of surfaces will also help make a new ship look shiny and an older ship look travel-worn. I like the idea of being able to get an idea by looking at a landed ship how much experience the pilot is likely to have. I love the idea that a battered ship is a sort of 'badge of office'."
I think it's pretty safe to assume that new ships will be somewhat shiny, old ones will not. I like that
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What about repainting your ship? How about a "car wash" for a ship? A ship wash?
If you look at how people modify their cars or even build cars they often give a nice vehicle a custom paint job. I would think if as a player you are wealthy enough this could be a game option.
Agreed, all protrusions and no hull. Reminds me of the overly giger-esque Romulan ship the Narada from the last Star Trek movie.. It's supposed to be a mining ship yet looks like some kind of mutant lobster.
Ships should mostly look functional, and most functions center around having a practical hull with useful internal space. The Vanduul looks more like some kind of exotic component of a ship rather than a ship itself.
Nor rumors but shadowing is obviously absent in the game I had begun writing and it's something that had been bothering me for quite some time.
I think the game should really take advantage of a polygon-wise sparser environment compare to other games. Self-shadowing should be very much doable.
Also...and some of you might want to revisit my demo video - lights and shadows are very important for the orientation of a pilot. For as long as the camera is directed at the semi-sphere towards the sun, you have the intensity of lighting as a guideline - and you can use that to point your ships towards the sun or away from it. I also believe that in a real space ship the shadows of objects within the ship would also add to the orientation of a pilot.
I also wondered about how the design of assassination ships would look like to best take advantage of lack of ambient light in space. My answer? Cone-shaped! Ideally a cone with an angle so that the sun that is almost right behind you (dont want to give yourself away by putting yourself right before the sun) from the targets pov will never reflect on a visible surface. All you need then is electronic masking of your signature and an according intercepting position.
Alex
..As long as I can paint my Cobra Mk III matt black I don't much care how it then renders ;-)