Elite Observatory - Search your journal for potentially interesting objects, or notify you of new ones on the fly while exploring!

Running Observatory with the wide ring check resulted in 26 "primary" bodies in offset ring orbits, and the list of bodies orbiting stars took up all but 8 lines on my monitor with Observatory maximized

Running Observatory without the wide ring check resulted in 41 "primary" bodies in offset ring orbits on one page, and the list was another 52 items long, which is about the entire displayed list, meaning only 11 of the visible items weren't orbiting stars.

Seems promising to me. I'm gonna run with this a bit and see what happens. Can I run with both and check the one against the other?...
 
Yeah, it looks like a lost cause. The last post in that thread concluded that a ring with very low density was visible because it had thick mist.

Thinking more about how to distinguish actual ringed stars from those with belts, here are some journal entries of a selection of pertinent "rings:"
{ "timestamp":"2019-04-17T14:54:01Z", "event":"Scan", "ScanType":"AutoScan", "BodyName":"Hyades Sector ON-S b4-1 A", "BodyID":1, "Parents":[ {"Null":0} ], "DistanceFromArrivalLS":0.000000, "StarType":"M", "StellarMass":0.230469, "Radius":270024096.000000, "AbsoluteMagnitude":10.894012, "Age_MY":4908, "SurfaceTemperature":2296.000000, "Luminosity":"Va", "SemiMajorAxis":76348620800.000000, "Eccentricity":0.160034, "OrbitalInclination":-30.506550, "Periapsis":149.490204, "OrbitalPeriod":234475360.000000, "RotationPeriod":138852.437500, "AxialTilt":0.000000, "Rings":[ { "Name":"Hyades Sector ON-S b4-1 A A Belt", "RingClass":"eRingClass_Rocky", "MassMT":1.898e+13, "InnerRad":4.3098e+08, "OuterRad":1.4795e+09 } ] }

{ "timestamp":"2020-11-25T01:12:46Z", "event":"Scan", "ScanType":"AutoScan", "BodyName":"Iowhaik ZQ-C d13-320 ABC 13", "BodyID":50, "Parents":[ {"Null":1}, {"Null":0} ], "StarSystem":"Iowhaik ZQ-C d13-320", "SystemAddress":11004134150131, "DistanceFromArrivalLS":4336.715259, "StarType":"T", "Subclass":7, "StellarMass":0.042969, "Radius":91734344.000000, "AbsoluteMagnitude":17.591507, "Age_MY":392, "SurfaceTemperature":843.000000, "Luminosity":"V", "SemiMajorAxis":1311187207698.822021, "Eccentricity":0.016361, "OrbitalInclination":0.031685, "Periapsis":169.668753, "OrbitalPeriod":391244482.994080, "RotationPeriod":176095.938612, "AxialTilt":2.934132, "Rings":[ { "Name":"Iowhaik ZQ-C d13-320 ABC 13 A Ring", "RingClass":"eRingClass_Rocky", "MassMT":1.1696e+13, "InnerRad":1.5136e+08, "OuterRad":9.1264e+08 } ], "WasDiscovered":false, "WasMapped":false }

{ "timestamp":"2019-04-17T14:32:57Z", "event":"Scan", "ScanType":"Detailed", "BodyName":"Hyades Sector FB-X c1-18 9", "BodyID":23, "Parents":[ {"Star":0} ], "DistanceFromArrivalLS":1438.989624, "TidalLock":false, "TerraformState":"", "PlanetClass":"Sudarsky class I gas giant", "Atmosphere":"", "AtmosphereComposition":[ { "Name":"Hydrogen", "Percent":74.131798 }, { "Name":"Helium", "Percent":25.868198 } ], "Volcanism":"", "MassEM":39.694115, "Radius":47879708.000000, "SurfaceGravity":6.901326, "SurfaceTemperature":80.996864, "SurfacePressure":0.000000, "Landable":false, "SemiMajorAxis":432294559744.000000, "Eccentricity":0.003389, "OrbitalInclination":0.007575, "Periapsis":336.159149, "OrbitalPeriod":219741648.000000, "RotationPeriod":132017.453125, "AxialTilt":-0.498648, "Rings":[ { "Name":"Hyades Sector FB-X c1-18 9 A Ring", "RingClass":"eRingClass_Icy", "MassMT":1.9363e+11, "InnerRad":7.7501e+07, "OuterRad":1.1875e+08 } ], "ReserveLevel":"PristineResources" }

I tried adding a check for "ReserveLevel" greater than zero to the Offset Ring Orbit, but of course, that eliminated all the stars, which I don't want to do due to things like example #2. I discovered this because I also added the parent body type to the "Detail" section of the criteria, and only planets were listed. I removed the check, and found that stars leave the "Parent" field blank, so it just reads "Parent Distance xxxxxls," instead of "Parent [body type] Distance xxxxxxls. So that's a little helpful, at least, since you can then see if the bodies those moons orbit have wide rings:

MfnwdGE.jpg


13 g (highlighted) has an offset ring orbit of an unnamed body, thus its parent is a star. Body 13 (top) has a wide ring. Bingo. If body 13 had no wide ring, it probably wouldn't have one at all, but a belt. Which made me wonder if there are any stars with actual rings that aren't "wide" per Observatory. I'm pretty sure I've never come across any. Then I wondered how Observatory evaluates "Wide Rings," and what makes it detect stars that have them while not detecting stars with belts. Because I bet that would be the ticket to detecting actual ringed stars; if a body is a star, and does not have a wide ring, it does not have a ring, but a belt. Conversely, only stars with wide rings have rings at all.

What I see how one possibly could distinguish a belt from an actual ring is that under "Ring:[" it says ""Name":"Hyades Sector FB-X c1-18 9 A Ring"" or ""Name":"Hyades Sector ON-S b4-1 A A Belt"". Don't know if you can read this out, but maybe this would be a start.
 
I forgot how involved this can be...Here's an analysis of the two criteria with my log data. The Criteria that checks for wide rings shows a significant reduction in false positives of offset ring orbits around ringed stars if the wide ring vs. asteroid belts theory is sound. For some reason, I find it interesting that neither criteria detected a body orbiting a wide-ringed star that the other did not.

I need to figure out how to add a check for wide B rings to the criteria.

XML:
<Criteria Comparator="And">
    <Criteria Comparator="Or">
<!-- Parent is ringed planet... -->
        <Criteria Comparator="Greater" Value="0">
            <Operation Operator="Multiply">
                <FirstValue Type="EventData">Parent:Rings</FirstValue>
                <SecondValue Type="EventData">ParentType:1:Planet</SecondValue>       
            </Operation>
        </Criteria>
<!-- Or a wide-ringed star... -->
        <Criteria Comparator="And">
            <Criteria Comparator="Greater" Value="0">
                <Operation Operator="Multiply">
                    <FirstValue Type="EventData">Parent:Rings</FirstValue>
                    <SecondValue Type="EventData">ParentType:1:Star</SecondValue>       
                </Operation>
            </Criteria>
            <Criteria Comparator="Greater" Value="5">
                <Operation Operator="Divide">
                    <FirstValue Type="Operation">
                        <Operation Operator="Subtract">
                            <FirstValue Type="EventData">Parent:Ring:1:OuterRad</FirstValue>
                            <SecondValue Type="EventData">Parent:Ring:1:InnerRad</SecondValue>       
                        </Operation>
                    </FirstValue>
                    <SecondValue Type="EventData">Parent:Radius</SecondValue>
                </Operation>
            </Criteria>
        </Criteria>
    <!-- This is the part that isn't working; checking for a wide B Ring around a star -->
        <Criteria Comparator="And">
            <Criteria Comparator="Greater" Value="0">
                <Operation Operator="Multiply">
                    <FirstValue Type="EventData">Parent:Rings</FirstValue>
                    <SecondValue Type="EventData">ParentType:1:Star</SecondValue>       
                </Operation>
            </Criteria>
            <Criteria Comparator="Greater" Value="5">
                <Operation Operator="Divide">
                    <FirstValue Type="Operation">
                        <Operation Operator="Subtract">
                            <FirstValue Type="EventData">Parent:Ring:2:OuterRad</FirstValue>
                            <SecondValue Type="EventData">Parent:Ring:2:InnerRad</SecondValue>       
                        </Operation>
                    </FirstValue>
                    <SecondValue Type="EventData">Parent:Radius</SecondValue>
                </Operation>
            </Criteria>
        </Criteria>
    </Criteria>
<!-- High inclination check -->
    <Criteria Comparator="Or">
       <Criteria Comparator="Greater" Value="10.0">
             <Operation Operator="None">
                  <FirstValue Type="EventData">OrbitalInclination</FirstValue>
             </Operation>
       </Criteria>
       <Criteria Comparator="Less" Value="-10.0">
             <Operation Operator="None">
                  <FirstValue Type="EventData">OrbitalInclination</FirstValue>
             </Operation>
       </Criteria>
    </Criteria>
    <Description>Offset Ring Orbit 2</Description>
    <Detail>
        <Item>Parent:PlanetClass</Item>
        <Item>DistanceFromArrivalLS</Item>
    </Detail>
</Criteria>
 
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I tried just checking for offset orbits around stars with wide B rings, and it did manage to find the ones initially missing, but also managed to find 42 more without wide rings. So to include that in the criteria would kinda offset the gains. Looks like a dead end.

XML:
<Criteria Comparator="And">
            <Criteria Comparator="And">
                <Criteria Comparator="Equal" Value="2">
                    <Operation Operator="Multiply">
                        <FirstValue Type="EventData">Parent:Ring:Count</FirstValue>
                        <SecondValue Type="EventData">ParentType:1:Star</SecondValue>        
                    </Operation>
                </Criteria>
                <Criteria Comparator="Greater" Value="5">
                    <Operation Operator="Divide">
                        <FirstValue Type="Operation">
                            <Operation Operator="Subtract">
                                <FirstValue Type="EventData">Parent:Ring:2:OuterRad</FirstValue>
                                <SecondValue Type="EventData">Parent:Ring:2:InnerRad</SecondValue>        
                            </Operation>
                        </FirstValue>
                        <SecondValue Type="EventData">Parent:Radius</SecondValue>
                    </Operation>
                </Criteria>
            </Criteria>
    <Criteria Comparator="Or">
       <Criteria Comparator="Greater" Value="10.0">
             <Operation Operator="None">
                  <FirstValue Type="EventData">OrbitalInclination</FirstValue>
             </Operation>
       </Criteria>
       <Criteria Comparator="Less" Value="-10.0">
             <Operation Operator="None">
                  <FirstValue Type="EventData">OrbitalInclination</FirstValue>
             </Operation>
       </Criteria>
    </Criteria>
    <Description>Offset Ring Orbit 2</Description>
    <Detail>
        <Item>Parent:PlanetClass</Item>
        <Item>DistanceFromArrivalLS</Item>
    </Detail>
</Criteria>
 
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I tried just checking for offset orbits around stars with wide B rings, and it did manage to find the ones initially missing, but also managed to find 42 more without wide rings. So to include that in the criteria would kinda offset the gains. Looks like a dead end.

XML:
<Criteria Comparator="And">
            <Criteria Comparator="And">
                <Criteria Comparator="Equal" Value="2">
                    <Operation Operator="Multiply">
                        <FirstValue Type="EventData">Parent:Ring:Count</FirstValue>
                        <SecondValue Type="EventData">ParentType:1:Star</SecondValue>        
                    </Operation>
                </Criteria>
                <Criteria Comparator="Greater" Value="5">
                    <Operation Operator="Divide">
                        <FirstValue Type="Operation">
                            <Operation Operator="Subtract">
                                <FirstValue Type="EventData">Parent:Ring:2:OuterRad</FirstValue>
                                <SecondValue Type="EventData">Parent:Ring:2:InnerRad</SecondValue>        
                            </Operation>
                        </FirstValue>
                        <SecondValue Type="EventData">Parent:Radius</SecondValue>
                    </Operation>
                </Criteria>
            </Criteria>
    <Criteria Comparator="Or">
       <Criteria Comparator="Greater" Value="10.0">
             <Operation Operator="None">
                  <FirstValue Type="EventData">OrbitalInclination</FirstValue>
             </Operation>
       </Criteria>
       <Criteria Comparator="Less" Value="-10.0">
             <Operation Operator="None">
                  <FirstValue Type="EventData">OrbitalInclination</FirstValue>
             </Operation>
       </Criteria>
    </Criteria>
    <Description>Offset Ring Orbit 2</Description>
    <Detail>
        <Item>Parent:PlanetClass</Item>
        <Item>DistanceFromArrivalLS</Item>
    </Detail>
</Criteria>

Thanks for your effort in trying to figure out some interesting critieria :)
 
I can't try it now, but Here's another approach.

XML:
<Criteria Comparator="And">
    <Criteria Comparator="Or">
        <Criteria Comparator="Greater" Value="0">
            <Operation Operator="Multiply">
                <FirstValue Type="EventData">Parent:Rings</FirstValue>
                <SecondValue Type="EventData">ParentType:1:Planet</SecondValue>
            </Operation>
        </Criteria>
        <Criteria Comparator="And">
            <Criteria Comparator="Greater" Value="0">
                <Operation Operator="Multiply">
                    <FirstValue Type="EventData">Parent:DistanceFromArrivalLS</FirstValue>
                    <SecondValue Type="Operation">
                        <Operation Operator="Multiply">
                            <FirstValue Type="EventData">ParentType:1:Star</FirstValue>
                            <SecondValue Type="EventData">Parent:Rings</SecondValue>
                        </Operation>
                    </SecondValue>
                </Operation>
            </Criteria>
            <Criteria Comparator="Greater" Value="5">
                <Operation Operator="Divide">
                    <FirstValue Type="Operation">
                        <Operation Operator="Add">
                            <FirstValue Type="Operation">
                                <Operation Operator="Subtract">
                                    <FirstValue Type="EventData">Parent:Ring:1:OuterRad</FirstValue>
                                    <SecondValue Type="EventData">Parent:Ring:1:InnerRad</SecondValue>
                                </Operation>
                            </FirstValue>
                            <SecondValue Type="Operation">
                                <Operation Operator="Subtract">
                                    <FirstValue Type="EventData">Parent:Ring:2:OuterRad</FirstValue>
                                    <SecondValue Type="EventData">Parent:Ring:2:InnerRad</SecondValue>
                                </Operation>
                            </SecondValue>
                        </Operation>
                    </FirstValue>
                    <SecondValue Type="EventData">Parent:Radius</SecondValue>
                </Operation>
            </Criteria>
        </Criteria>
    </Criteria>
    <Criteria Comparator="Or">
        <Criteria Comparator="Greater" Value="10.0">
            <Operation Operator="None">
                <FirstValue Type="EventData">OrbitalInclination</FirstValue>
            </Operation>
        </Criteria>
        <Criteria Comparator="Less" Value="-10.0">
            <Operation Operator="None">
                <FirstValue Type="EventData">OrbitalInclination</FirstValue>
            </Operation>
        </Criteria>
    </Criteria>
<Description>Offset Ring Orbit 2</Description>
<Detail>
    <Item>Parent:PlanetClass</Item>
    <Item>DistanceFromArrivalLS</Item>
</Detail>
</Criteria>
 
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Tried it, fixed it, and now getting an error: Object Reference Not Set to an Instance of an Object...? Is that because it uses Ring:2 where there is none?
 
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Oooookay...The Inclination check should be the second. Have I misplaced a </Criteria> or two? I get lost in all that.

EDIT: I think I see it. I need to move the one before the description to above the inclination check, ya?
 
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Yes, I think that's it. You've got three criteria inside your first "or" element.

Personal recommendation: Get something that can beautify/pretty-print/auto-indent xml when working on anything heavily nested to make what's inside what more easily visible. Ideally also with collapsible nodes. I use Notepad++ with the XML Tools plugin.
 
That's...interesting. It detected all the "B" rings, the same "shared" successes, and had only the two "shared" failures of the B-Ring only check...and that's all. 21 total detections. I feel like this is a solid step in the right direction, if not too far.

[About an hour later:] Eureka! Lessons learned and best practices have merged to form an Offset Ring Orbit criteria with a 90% success rate of identifying bodies orbiting wide-ringed stars! That's more than twice the original!

XML:
<Criteria Comparator="And">
    <Criteria Comparator="Or">
        <Criteria Comparator="Greater" Value="0">
            <Operation Operator="Multiply">
                <FirstValue Type="EventData">Parent:Rings</FirstValue>
                <SecondValue Type="EventData">ParentType:1:Planet</SecondValue>   
            </Operation>
        </Criteria>
        <Criteria Comparator="Or">
            <Criteria Comparator="And">
                <Criteria Comparator="Greater" Value="0">
                    <Operation Operator="Multiply">
                        <FirstValue Type="EventData">Parent:DistanceFromArrivalLS</FirstValue>
                        <SecondValue Type="Operation">
                            <Operation Operator="Multiply">
                                <FirstValue Type="EventData">ParentType:1:Star</FirstValue>
                                <SecondValue Type="EventData">Parent:Rings</SecondValue>
                            </Operation>
                        </SecondValue>
                    </Operation>
                </Criteria>
                <Criteria Comparator="Greater" Value="5">
                    <Operation Operator="Divide">
                        <FirstValue Type="Operation">
                            <Operation Operator="Subtract">
                                <FirstValue Type="EventData">Parent:Ring:1:OuterRad</FirstValue>
                                <SecondValue Type="EventData">Parent:Ring:1:InnerRad</SecondValue>   
                            </Operation>
                        </FirstValue>
                        <SecondValue Type="EventData">Parent:Radius</SecondValue>
                    </Operation>
                </Criteria>
            </Criteria>
            <Criteria Comparator="And">
                <Criteria Comparator="Greater" Value="0">
                    <Operation Operator="Multiply">
                        <FirstValue Type="EventData">Parent:DistanceFromArrivalLS</FirstValue>
                        <SecondValue Type="Operation">
                            <Operation Operator="Multiply">
                                <FirstValue Type="EventData">ParentType:1:Star</FirstValue>
                                <SecondValue Type="EventData">Parent:Rings</SecondValue>
                            </Operation>
                        </SecondValue>
                    </Operation>
                </Criteria>
                <Criteria Comparator="Greater" Value="5">
                    <Operation Operator="Divide">
                        <FirstValue Type="Operation">
                            <Operation Operator="Subtract">
                                <FirstValue Type="EventData">Parent:Ring:2:OuterRad</FirstValue>
                                <SecondValue Type="EventData">Parent:Ring:2:InnerRad</SecondValue>   
                            </Operation>
                        </FirstValue>
                        <SecondValue Type="EventData">Parent:Radius</SecondValue>
                    </Operation>
                </Criteria>
            </Criteria>
        </Criteria>
    </Criteria>
    <Criteria Comparator="Or">
       <Criteria Comparator="Greater" Value="10.0">
             <Operation Operator="None">
                  <FirstValue Type="EventData">OrbitalInclination</FirstValue>
             </Operation>
       </Criteria>
       <Criteria Comparator="Less" Value="-10.0">
             <Operation Operator="None">
                  <FirstValue Type="EventData">OrbitalInclination</FirstValue>
             </Operation>
       </Criteria>
    </Criteria>
    <Description>Offset Ring Orbit 2</Description>
    <Detail>
        <Item>Parent:PlanetClass</Item>
        <Item>DistanceFromArrivalLS</Item>
    </Detail>
</Criteria>

Next will be to tackle a reasonable Semi-Major Axis:Ring Width ratio for ring visibility...usually anything past a "c" body isn't worth the effort.
 
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Hey guys,

first a big thanks to everyone involved.
Though I dunno what to appreciate more, the work on Elite Observatory itself, the cringe XML math, or the knowledge geo/bio signal scans are frame tied (yes, I did facepalm as I read that).

I stumbled actoss a minor issue with the custom "Undiscovered System" criteria. It triggers on a Nav Beacon scan in pre-discovered systems. No idea how to avoid that...

Look at me, the great explorer, I found Sol.
I've included Sirius, because I am sure that was my first NB scan in Sirius. I remember I did that because EDDiscovery showed Sirius empty (Sirius A/B unknown) except for Sirius A1/B1 that I had mapped before the scan.

2021-01-06 11_39_12-Elite Observatory - v0.5.20.153.png


@Vithigar:
I just had a feature idea: Could you please implement a tooltip (like with "Read on launch") for the standard interest criteria checkboxes showing the cutoff/requirements, to make it easier for new users to select criteria or use their own adjusted ones?
Landable & Terraformable is obvious. But how high has the g to be on a landable high g? How large ist a landable large?
 
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Undiscovered Sol is kind of hilarious. Like you said though, not sure there's a good fix in the current custom criteria, but hopefully the new system in the next version will be able to handle it better.

The specifics of built-in criteria is something that has been mentioned before as well, and I'm planning to incorporate that into the rewrite.

For now though, here you go!
Landable high gravitySurface gravity >3g
Landable largeRadius >18000km
Wide ringRing outer radius - ring inner radius > 5x planet radius
Close orbitSemi-major axis < 3x parent body radius
Close ring proximitySeparation between body and ring < 10x body radius
Close binaryBody radius > 0.4x semi-major axis
Tiny objectRadius <300km
Fast rotationRotation period <8 hours and not tidal locked
Fast orbitOrbital period <8 hours
High eccentricity>0.9
 
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Thanks, maybe pin those infos somewhere in first post as a reference for now? Reading through 43 pages is kinda meh.

In the meantime, I checked the EDSM records Observatory File, and some records are out of date - so here is an updated one.

There were some issues though:
  • The EDSM record site does not show "Largest Planet" and "Hottest Planet" anymore. I did only compare against the site, not the raw data, so I couldn't update those values. If I recall correctly, those were displayed on EDSM in the past, like "Bigger, Smaller, Hotter, Colder"? Does anyone know why they are gone?
  • Water Worlds and Water Giants were completely missing (now included). Without hottest/largest though due to the first issue.
  • Helium Giants were completely missing (now included). I even manually looked up the hottest and largest ones. But if you miss out on those, you've propably landed on Raxxla and didn't notice as well... I couldn't check the spelling im my journal though as I haven't visited them yet. I assumed <FirstValue Type="EventData">PlanetClass:Helium gas giant</FirstValue> is correct.
  • Mismatch between the coldest Ammonia World on the EDSM site (100 K) and the old code (14 K). I assumed 100 K as correct.
  • The old code has no lower temperature check for Icy Bodies and Sudarsky Class I Giants, as a 0K body is known. EDSM states 1K for both. Left as is, because propably a rounding issue?
  • Here was a mismatch between the compared value and the Description. I assumed 3777K as the right one (couldn't check due to first issue).
XML:
    <Criteria Comparator="And">
        <Criteria Comparator="Greater" Value="3777.0">
            <Operation Operator="None">
                <FirstValue Type="EventData">SurfaceTemperature</FirstValue>
            </Operation>
        </Criteria>
        <Criteria Comparator="Greater" Value="0">
            <Operation Operator="None">
                <FirstValue Type="EventData">PlanetClass:Icy body</FirstValue>
            </Operation>
        </Criteria>
        <Description>Record breaker: Surface Tempature greater than 6449 K and Icy body</Description>
        <Detail>
            <Item>SurfaceTemperature</Item>
        </Detail>
    </Criteria>
 

Attachments

  • EDSM_Records_Planets_2021_01_06.zip
    2.9 KB · Views: 13
Last edited:
Hey Vithigar,
could you add EventData "StarType" for custom criteria, as with "PlanetClass"?

It was impossible for me to make a check for "StarType" in v0.5.20.153. Or am I missing something?
 
Hey Vithigar,
could you add EventData "StarType" for custom criteria, as with "PlanetClass"?

It was impossible for me to make a check for "StarType" in v0.5.20.153. Or am I missing something?
Huh, you're correct, it's not one of the values you can check. Completely an oversight on my part, and you're the first person to ever mention it.

Adding it would be a small change. I might quickly add it and release a small update within the next week or so.
 
Few questions. Ive been using this for a while and i love it! Is there a readme somewhere or some post that explains what the symbols are or what the meaning of certain things are? ... Like for example the little circle with lines through it on some planets. Or "nested moon" ... what does it mean?
question.PNG

And next question is. If i have everything checked is that EVERYTHING? ... or are there other custom criteria that i would have to add in to get certain things? ... i like seeing everything :D
 
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