Elite Without PvP is Half a Game

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.... probably not - because Explorers can, at most, incur a 10% loss on earnings (by selling data and getting the "First Discovered by" tag before someone else).... :)

Also, the collective term for lemurs is a "conspiracy".

...sorry, I thought we were covering irrelevant facts? :)
 
[h=2]Elite Without PvP is Half a Game
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No it isn't. Elite 1, no PvP. Frontier, no PvP.

ED, PvP but I play in solo or private and don't remotely miss anything. I'm having a whale of a time.
 
This is a personal assessment.

For nearly a year after receiving the game as a gift, I played Solo, did the grinds, experienced PowerPlay, engineers and various developments.

Since late last year, I transitioned to Open and been there almost exclusively. Also, I accepted a wing membership invitation. This invite had been extended long ago but I didn't act on it, I wanted to "prove" I could reach certain levels so I could be a productive member.

Since joining the wing, the game has opened play and experience to a much wider horizon. I now meet people, talk about life, politics, ships, you know, what persons with a common interests do normally and we laugh. We also play.

The makeup of the wing is cosmopolitan, different levels of tech know-how, languages (I applaud all those countries across the pond on their education systems that routinely teach at least English, apart from their native languages), age levels, education and gaming skills. I have also observed that everyone I've met on my wing is obviously well-educated and intelligent and/or highly self-taught.

Our wing is Open play for the active members, there are some Pvt. Groups as well and I'm sure some are in Solo. However, it is Open I wish to address.

The following recently transpired all in Open as far as I observed.

A "war" developed between our wing another group, the reasons, though part of the conflict, are really not what brought this episode to life.

It was the marshaling of forces, the strategy developed for BGS operations, intelligence gathering, decision making, the actual operations which required effort and commitment, the cat and mouse between the two factions and of course, propaganda (trash talk, et al).

Both sides on patrol, working to wreak BGS havoc and loosen the holds of each others' system factions.

All this led to PvP skirmish at Tavgi yeterday, the sides were brought to battle and noble efforts were made by both sides.

It isn't my intent to crow about winning or cry about losing, here but to point out what the game is really about and the very large part PvP plays in the game.

Without PvP, the game is a cripple and not alive. As a player, you haven't experienced what the game provides if aren't part of a wing playing hide and seek in supercruise and trying to interdict each other.

You have the Fog of War, the missed comms, lost sightings and wake fixes, conning your ship, worrying that you will let your side down if you're not there for them when they need you.

Then there is dropping right into a combat zone, ships flying all around, cannon fire, lasers, fiery plasma balls rocketing past you. You look for a target, lock in and open fire.

You see your hits registering and shields failing, all the time listening for your mates as they call in sit reps, even though it's a game, the adrenaline rush is there.

Today's encounter lasted about 30 minutes from the initial hunt to the skirmish. That is a long time to be on edge. Perfection.

To my wing mates and our opponents, Ave, Vos Saluto!

Players, you have a choice over what you make of the game, but be assured, even with gankers and griefers and the growing pains that the game experiences, you are missing out on the real fun.

You're entitled to your opinion. Where PvP is concerned and it's place, importance, significance whatever in Elite, I disagree. I have other games for PvP and I've never looked upon Elite as the game for that. I have no problems with PvP being possible in open (or in private groups), but I don't share certain people's view of what truly constitutes PvP and 'the real fun'. And I'm not sure that Frontier's attempt to cater to both PvE and PvP together in open has proven all that successful. But that's only my opinion of course.
 
This is a personal assessment.

To my wing mates and our opponents, Ave, Vos Saluto!

Players, you have a choice over what you make of the game, but be assured, even with gankers and griefers and the growing pains that the game experiences, you are missing out on the real fun.

Eh, the problem is that too many ONLY experience gankers and griefers as you call it, though once ganking was just several weak teaming up on a big target they couldn't take otherwise, I realise now it has become just any group of people taking on any target, which basically becomes griefing in my book. I've not really experienced that much of it myself, but yeah, th efact that dedicated 'pvp' people seemingly dismiss this is not really helping the matter, as for PvP being half of Elite, not in my book, it is a potentially exciting part of the game, but hardly half of it.
 
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There's a huge difference between: SOLO, CO-OP, and PvP.

Solo is confinement, if you like some peace and quiet.

CO-OP is working together to achieve something the individual is seldom able to do by himself / herself.

PVP means you're someone elses content.
 

Robert Maynard

Volunteer Moderator
Also, the collective term for lemurs is a "conspiracy".

...sorry, I thought we were covering irrelevant facts? :)

We are - I was suggesting that the "noise and ethical pressure" (presumably against PvP) is due to direct losses incurred by other players that may not be interested in PvP....
 
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Many of the PvP folks think the PvP circumstances suck.

But then again, a visit to the Exploration folks will tell you that many of the explorers are utterly sick of exploration (or the present lack of it). There are pages of well-constructed criticism and ignored suggestions by respected explorers such as Mengy, often with complete reason and explanation of the current inadequacies.

And yet, have you seen any noise or ethical pressure at all telling explorers they shouldn't be doing what they do? As I've just stated elsewhere I find it far more barmy that some people are happy to travel between the same two star systems to watch their credits go up, often without a financial goal to even persue. But I enjoy PvP despite its flaws, just like many explorers, and will work in any way I can to see it improved - like explorers.

Yeah, i know there are plenty of PvPers who think it sucks but persist anyway. I'd rather just bang my head against a wall.

As for the exploration forum and suggested improvements. Many good suggestions, but its not a case of anyone igoniring anything. Rarely are there heated arguments in the explroation sub-forum because there is no competitiveness there and we are all on the same side. We all want improvements to exploration. But i think many understand that FD can't please everyone all the time, and that we simply have to wait for FD to get around to giving exploration more love.
 
I find it far more barmy that some people are happy to travel between the same two star systems to watch their credits go up, often without a financial goal to even persue.


For some people, seemingly without a financial goal, watching the credits go up is a financial goal.
 
We all want improvements to exploration. But i think many understand that FD can't please everyone all the time, and that we simply have to wait for FD to get around to giving exploration more love.

You know what's funny? Myself, and many PvPers I know, would have been happy to see minimal combat "trinkets" developed. Engineers was far enough for many as it was, but SLFs/Multicrew were gimmicks that a lot of combat players wish had been left out of it or left at the wayside for a future development.

I have been 100% behind the motion that FD develop exploration content and refine/fix, not develop more content for, combat. I would eagerly scream like a little girl and give up multicrew for atmospheric landings.

Given that and the shared distaste for existing PvP mechanics, I am compelled to publically observe two things: The difference between the pro-PvP crowd and pro-PvE crowd on the forums is not so much technical, but strongly psychological. Secondly that PvPers are not so easily blamed for state of combat as many seem to think...
 
Elite Without PvP is Half a Game
This is a personal assessment.

My personal assessment is that Elite without PvP is all I ever wanted.
I feel no need to get into a pvp ing contest (is that a word I can use? Oh, I can...) with others at all.
I enjoy immersing myself in a universe without other humans.
And to be honest I wish that Elite could be freed of the shackles of PvP.

Players, you have a choice over what you make of the game, but be assured, even with gankers and griefers and the growing pains that the game experiences, you are missing out on the real fun.

That is only true if you consider PvP to be real fun. If not... then you are not missing out on anything whatsoever.
I stopped PvP-ing many years ago and I do not miss it at all, not for a second.
 
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Forgive me for being dense, but that second point went right over my head. Would you be so kind as to elaborate a little more.

thanks.

No probs.

There's quite a few peeps here that'd have you believe PvPers are to blame for the state of engineers, or for the state of combat in general, or for lobbying to over-develop combat.

Most PvPers are actually interested in (relatively) stripped down and straight up skill-based conflict. A lot of us didn't and still don't want engineers at all; assistance in constantly tweaking it is because, well, it's here - so may as well improve it.
 
No probs.

There's quite a few peeps here that'd have you believe PvPers are to blame for the state of engineers, or for the state of combat in general, or for lobbying to over-develop combat.

Most PvPers are actually interested in (relatively) stripped down and straight up skill-based conflict. A lot of us didn't and still don't want engineers at all; assistance in constantly tweaking it is because, well, it's here - so may as well improve it.

Thanks for that., I understand where you're coming from now.
 
PvP only matters to the segment of the community that engages in it. The fact that this segment is rather small compared to PvE, the OP's comments are rather hyperbolic and off base.

With the Engineer exploit coming to light in recent days, I predict the number of honest players who had been engaging in PvP will drop dramatically. At least until Frontier publicly addresses what actions have been taken to remove both those who cheated as well as their ill gotten gains.

But the notion that PvP is the life blood of ED and without it the game is dead, is patently false and simply ridiculous.

Those who have been around the game since the beginning know that PvP was never a top priority with the developers. The fact that P2P was chosen as the means to engage PvP vs the use of much more suited dedicated servers should tell you that.

Threads like this just prove what I have always known... Those who place PvP in any game above all else, also walk around with Egos the size of a planet. Of course THEY are going to proclaim that their choices of gameplay trump all others.
 
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No probs.

There's quite a few peeps here that'd have you believe PvPers are to blame for the state of engineers, or for the state of combat in general, or for lobbying to over-develop combat.

Most PvPers are actually interested in (relatively) stripped down and straight up skill-based conflict. A lot of us didn't and still don't want engineers at all; assistance in constantly tweaking it is because, well, it's here - so may as well improve it.

I never felt that PvP-ers are to blame for Engineers. I never heard anyone saying that either.
There's nothing to blame anyone for anyhow, because I like the engineers, and I think that without PvP engineering could have been designed to do much more than it does now.
I do believe PvP limits the devs in what they can do. I believe that Powerplay for example could have been infinitely more interesting if they could forget about the PvP nature of it.

I do however not believe that PvPers are to blame for anything. They just want to play a game in a particular way I do not.
Many gamers love to PvP and that is perfectly fine. I am just not one of them and I strongly believe that a pure singleplayer approach to Elite would have made for a much more interesting game.
 
I do however not believe that PvPers are to blame for anything. They just want to play a game in a particular way I do not.
Many gamers love to PvP and that is perfectly fine. I am just not one of them and I strongly believe that a pure singleplayer approach to Elite would have made for a much more interesting game.

And as a PvPer, I think the game would be far more interesting without PG/Solo modes.

There's the fun of a "sandbox" game that lets everyone "play their way". A lot of different players will be attracted, and they'll all think they are right.

Only difference of course that I really am right :D

*ducks thrown shoes*
 
You know what's funny? Myself, and many PvPers I know, would have been happy to see minimal combat "trinkets" developed. Engineers was far enough for many as it was, but SLFs/Multicrew were gimmicks that a lot of combat players wish had been left out of it or left at the wayside for a future development.

I have been 100% behind the motion that FD develop exploration content and refine/fix, not develop more content for, combat. I would eagerly scream like a little girl and give up multicrew for atmospheric landings.

Given that and the shared distaste for existing PvP mechanics, I am compelled to publically observe two things: The difference between the pro-PvP crowd and pro-PvE crowd on the forums is not so much technical, but strongly psychological. Secondly that PvPers are not so easily blamed for state of combat as many seem to think...

Oh well, as noted, can't please all the people all the time. I love SLFs (wish we could bring our CQC fighters into the main game, ill be campaigning for that over the coming year), and multicrew can be lots of fun.
 
And as a PvPer, I think the game would be far more interesting without PG/Solo modes.

There's the fun of a "sandbox" game that lets everyone "play their way". A lot of different players will be attracted, and they'll all think they are right.

Only difference of course that I really am right :D

*ducks thrown shoes*

Nah, remove Open mode and life would be much better.

Okay, I'll get my coat :)
 
PvP only matters to the segment of the community that engages in it. The fact that this segment is rather small compared to PvE, the OP's comments are rather hyperbolic and off base.

With the Engineer exploit coming to light in recent days, I predict the number of honest players who had been engaging in PvP will drop dramatically. At least until Frontier publicly addresses what actions have been taken to remove both those who cheated as well as their ill gotten gains.

But the notion that PvP is the life blood of ED and without it the game is dead, is patently false and simply ridiculous.

Those who have been around the game since the beginning know that PvP was never a top priority with the developers. The fact that P2P was chosen as the means to engage PvP vs the use of much more suited dedicated servers should tell you that.

Threads like this just prove what I have always known... Those who place PvP in any game above all else, also walk around with Egos the size of a planet. Of course THEY are going to proclaim that their choices of gameplay trump all others.

Same applies to every other gamemode. I don't give a damn about some flying green flower showing its butt in a scripted cutsceme. I don't care about someone trading goods or racing in a eagle.


Those who have been around for quite a while also know that PVE combat is pretty much the only frontier's priority. Not only PVP is dismissed and not listened to, it's also exploring, trading, smuggling, piracy, powerplay.
 
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