End the geno/xenocidal assault on a sentient species

[Firehawk894]

As of posting this, Titan Thor has gone into meltdown a few minutes ago.

This now marks number 6 of the 8 Titans that have been ruthlessly destroyed by humanity for daring to try and defend themselves and their species from genocidal maniacs determined to rip the Thargoids apart and steal their technology and resources.

And before the usual tired arguments of "They attacked first!", "They never tried peace!", "They invaded our systems" etc. come rolling in, I would just gently remind people that Humans have always shot first in any historical interaction with the Thargoids.

1. The First Thargoid War was started when a human frontier colony expanded to a new planet and found Thargoid tech/development there, then attacked a ship that happened to come to the site. This eventually led to the development of the infamous Mycoid disease, a genocidal viral bioweapon designed to break down Thargoids and their technology at a cellular level. This weapon was developed by capturing Thargoids or pieces of their technology from crash sites, and subjecting them to torture while attempting to develop the most effective way to essentially melt them from the inside out.

2. After the FTW, the Thargoids retreated out of known space, not to be seen for hundreds of years, until their re-emergence in 3303 (Elite Dangerous). Prior to the re-emergence of 3303, humanity had expanded into areas still actively controlled by the Thargoids, now known as the Pleiades, Witch Head and Coalsack nebulae. As exploitation of the Pleiades sites increased, Thargoid craft began to emerge to investigate the invasion of their territory, where they were met with curiosity at first, then hostility as humanity attempted to scare the craft away so they could plunder the sites for their resources.

3. Now that the exploitation and abuse of the Pleiades sites was in full swing, the Thargoids responded by hyperdicting ships passing through their space, scanning them, then releasing them. The exception to this was if the craft was carrying thargoid technology or materials, in which case, the Thargoids would issue a audio-visual warning via a threat display, and offer the chance for their property to be returned. If the warning was ignored and the property not returned, only then would the Thargoids engage.


In every instance that the Thargoids have interacted with humanity, they have been passive until provoked. Humanity however has taken every chance to shoot at the Thargoids, or failing that, to study them to develop better ways to shoot them.
The Second Thargoid War and the Titans are just a response to a long series of human aggression against a species that never acted aggressively until pushed to it.


With all of the above in mind, I'm asking that the assaults against the Titans be ceased. AX pilot groups have already proven their bloodlust and desire to repeat the behaviour of early 20th century supremacy groups is powerful enough to corral the Titan's defensive fleets back into their origin system. This provides an opportunity to attempt contact, after the failure and sabotage of the Kingfisher outreach megaship.

I invite any Commander or diplomat from the major powers to give good reasoning behind why the assault against the Thargoids should be continued, without rehashing the same talking points which paint the Thargoids as aggressors, when humanity have always fired first.

Side note:
Think of this all as an in-universe post, I get that AX combat can be fun for those who enjoy shooting at the Thargoids that are capable of firing back, and I enjoy AX combat against the armed thargoids myself. But since when have the Pro-Xeno community been given anything at all?

 

[aRJay]

Because shooting them is better than shooting each other.

As long as we win slowly.
Losing might be worse than shooting each other though.

 

[Kira Goto]

Because shooting them is better than shooting each other.

And we will just go right back to shooting each other once the Titans are gone. Couldn't even stop with it during the war.

I also doubt the remaining two Titans will take their fates as idly as the first six (mostly) did, but once again, it feels more like a result of humanity's actions and apparent refusal to even look for actions that don't involve swinging a hammer. And then acting surprised when the opposing side decides to swing it back.

 

[Firehawk894]

And we will just go right back to shooting each other once the Titans are gone. Couldn't even stop with it during the war.

I also doubt the remaining two Titans will take their fates as idly as the first six (mostly) did, but once again, it feels more like a result of humanity's actions and apparent refusal to even look for actions that don't involve swinging a hammer. And then acting surprised when the opposing side decides to swing it back.

Given the direction FDev seems intent to go, the last two Titans will just roll over and only need a single guardian torpedo before insta-dying or something dumb like that

 

[Shadowsnog]

To the misguided supporters of xeno-pacifism,

I write to you not out of malice, but out of a deep concern for the future of humanity. It is with a heavy heart that I witness your growing movement, one that advocates for peace and understanding with the Thargoid species. Your intentions may be noble, but they are dangerously naive, and I fear that your actions, if left unchecked, will lead to the downfall of everything we hold dear.

You speak of peace, of co-existence, of reaching out a hand to these alien invaders. But what you fail to understand is that the Thargoids are not interested in peace. They are a relentless force, one that has shown time and again their willingness to destroy and annihilate any who stand in their way. Our outposts lie in ruins, our ships reduced to debris, and countless lives have been lost in their wake. They are not here to negotiate; they are here to exterminate.

The Federation, the Empire, and the Alliance may have their differences, but in the face of the Thargoid threat, we are united. We fight not out of hatred, but out of necessity. To defend our homes, our families, our very existence. This is not a war we chose, but it is one we must win. The cost of failure is too great.

I understand that war is not the solution you seek. I too long for a galaxy where peace reigns, where we can explore the stars without fear of attack. But peace cannot be achieved through submission or appeasement. History has taught us that when we face a threat of this magnitude, we must stand firm, we must fight, and we must prevail. To lay down our arms now, to abandon our defenses, would be to invite the Thargoids to finish what they have started.

Your calls for pacifism are not just misguided—they are a threat to our survival. Every moment we waste on futile attempts at diplomacy is a moment the Thargoids use to regroup, to strike again. We cannot afford to be complacent. We cannot afford to be divided. Now, more than ever, we must stand together, resolute and unyielding.

To you, the xeno-pacifists, I implore you to reconsider your stance. Join us in the defense of humanity. Understand that this is not a war of choice, but a war of survival. If we do not fight, if we do not stand our ground, there will be nothing left to defend.

Humanity's future depends on our actions today. Let us not squander it through inaction or misplaced idealism. Stand with us, and together, we will ensure that the Thargoids are driven back, and that our children inherit a galaxy where humanity, not alien forces, reigns supreme.

For the Federation! For the humanity!
Commander Shadowsnog
Steel Wolves Aegis Tactical

 

[Fixitman]

While I haven't intentionally engaged in any Thargoid content, I have been closely watching the story line unfold from the sidelines.

The way I see it, we have no choice now.

If you kick a hornet's nets, intentionally or not, you still have to deal with the hornets. You can't reason with them, so you either go on the offensive, or you run away. We have yet to find a way to communicate, let alone reason with the Thargoids. We can't all run away from the bubble and start over. There are just too many people. The only option now is to fight.

 

[Kira Goto]

Given the direction FDev seems intent to go, the last two Titans will just roll over and only need a single guardian torpedo before insta-dying or something dumb like that

I'm remaining cautious about either direction, but if I had a clue what Frontier still wants out of the Titan story arc, well, I'd have to be someone else. They hint at a "Thargoid retaliation", but then nothing happens for another two, three months, Thor does a funny thing with its spires and it does absolutely nothing but yet again serve as a tool for players to uproot it (faster), nevermind the whole thing of how they've been doing nothing that actually had any meaningful impact on the destruction of a Titan (or avoidance thereof), and "It was all just a test of humans to see how they would respond to a large-scale invasion" would feel more like a cheap copout for a good while.

You speak of peace, of co-existence, of reaching out a hand to these alien invaders. But what you fail to understand is that the Thargoids are not interested in peace. They are a relentless force, one that has shown time and again their willingness to destroy and annihilate any who stand in their way. Our outposts lie in ruins, our ships reduced to debris, and countless lives have been lost in their wake. They are not here to negotiate; they are here to exterminate.

Spoken just like the propaganda wants you to believe. What makes you think anybody knows the true numbers of the Thargoids well enough to disprove that, if they actually wished, they could have steamrolled over the entire Bubble already? Instead they kept themselves confined to the edges of it while it is completely impossible to intercept a moving Titan, or prevent the Thargoids from just appearing right in the middle of it.

Lives have been lost, yes, but over-exaggerating the facts does nobody any good. Not one of the attacked stations was damaged so badly to be completely irretrievable after recovery of a system, either. And how many Thargoids have we killed before any reason to do so in the defense of human territory (not colony outposts planted right in the territory of a highly territorial species to plunder their resources, thus putting the civilians placed there in danger when an inevitable response occurred) came up?

And you can't tell me the Federation is not responsible with the warmongering Hudson behind it. Perhaps his feelings wouldn't have gotten hurt if he didn't order the Navy to steal from the Thargoids and then acted surprised when they destroyed the convoy with that technology.

The way I see it, we have no choice now.

If you kick a hornet's nets, intentionally or not, you still have to deal with the hornets. You can't reason with them, so you either go on the offensive, or you run away. We have yet to find a way to communicate, let alone reason with the Thargoids. We can't all run away from the bubble and start over. There are just too many people. The only option now is to fight.

So, yes, humans do have a right to defend their space, and I do not, nor can I, deny that. But the problem I have with it is that there was never any attempt to actually reason with the Thargoids*, let alone understand them... because, as history also knows, the original Aegis was meant to be an organization with a research focus first, but the superpowers slapped it every time and insisted for it to be an arms manufacturer to fuel a blind war fought in pure xenophobia. With predictable results, on both ends. And then they had the audacity to gut it in favor of Azimuth's weapons of mass destruction. Now look where that led us.

And it feels much like the new Aegis is just set to repeat those mistakes, even if some of them have been avoided. Yet most of its research ended up being dedicated to... destruction of Thargoid ships, or disabling their structures. Spire contaminants, the anti-Titan torpedoes... the latter especially with how as soon as the option was presented, Aegis immediately jumped the gun on it while forsaking every other research project, nevermind how suddenly the threat of the Titans isolated to the remote regions of the Bubble even for the furthest-spread Thargoid sphere, was at extreme risk of wiping everything in the Bubble out. With zero credible evidence. Or just none at all, considering how it's been nearly six months since the first destroyed Titan and their behavior has barely changed.

All research purely dedicated to war and how to end it most quickly through violence, when violence was what led us here in the first place. Blind, completely clueless violence. And still nobody is looking at any solutions on how to prevent further conflict in the long term. What destroying the Titans will do is simply cause the Thargoids to send more, as much as certain figures like to claim the only way to "discourage" them is a show of force. How often have we tried that for them to just come back worse? And what stopped research into the Thargoid species, aside from ways how to kill them better, from being performed alongside the defensive effort of human space?

Somehow, I suspect that their behavior won't remain so "docile" now that there is only two Titans left in this assault force and six of them have been cooked to death, which is not a death any living creature should suffer through (and yes, the Titans are alive as much as any other Thargoid ship). But humans insisted violence was the best and only solution, so they can reap what they get of it. As the saying goes... "You reap what you sow"

*I have not forgotten the Kingfisher, and it was mentioned above anyway. But it was far too late for one, and some idiot thought sending it on a mission of certain doom was not enough on its own, packing it full of Thargoid sensors and probes, ensuring a hostile response, instead of making it almost completely certain.

Whatever the point of writing all of that up is anyway. Those who listen to it will already be aware and convinced, and the other side is hardly going to care, so it'll be like preaching to the choir.

Out of character, well, I'm not exactly too pleased with Frontier's recent writing direction (recent as in since February) for the Titan arc, but that would be a whole separate wall of text worthy of several posts, so I think I'll just... not. For now.

 

[Uiros Ueramos]

With all of the above in mind, I'm asking that the assaults against the Titans be ceased. AX pilot groups have already proven their bloodlust and desire to repeat the behaviour of early 20th century supremacy groups is powerful enough to corral the Titan's defensive fleets back into their origin system. This provides an opportunity to attempt contact, after the failure and sabotage of the Kingfisher outreach megaship.

I invite any Commander or diplomat from the major powers to give good reasoning behind why the assault against the Thargoids should be continued, without rehashing the same talking points which paint the Thargoids as aggressors, when humanity have always fired first.

Side note:
Think of this all as an in-universe post, I get that AX combat can be fun for those who enjoy shooting at the Thargoids that are capable of firing back, and I enjoy AX combat against the armed thargoids myself. But since when have the Pro-Xeno community been given anything at all?

 

[Sublime]

As of posting this, Titan Thor has gone into meltdown a few minutes ago.

This now marks number 6 of the 8 Titans that have been ruthlessly destroyed by humanity for daring to try and defend themselves and their species from genocidal maniacs determined to rip the Thargoids apart and steal their technology and resources.

And before the usual tired arguments of "They attacked first!", "They never tried peace!", "They invaded our systems" etc. come rolling in, I would just gently remind people that Humans have always shot first in any historical interaction with the Thargoids.

1. The First Thargoid War was started when a human frontier colony expanded to a new planet and found Thargoid tech/development there, then attacked a ship that happened to come to the site. This eventually led to the development of the infamous Mycoid disease, a genocidal viral bioweapon designed to break down Thargoids and their technology at a cellular level. This weapon was developed by capturing Thargoids or pieces of their technology from crash sites, and subjecting them to torture while attempting to develop the most effective way to essentially melt them from the inside out.

2. After the FTW, the Thargoids retreated out of known space, not to be seen for hundreds of years, until their re-emergence in 3303 (Elite Dangerous). Prior to the re-emergence of 3303, humanity had expanded into areas still actively controlled by the Thargoids, now known as the Pleiades, Witch Head and Coalsack nebulae. As exploitation of the Pleiades sites increased, Thargoid craft began to emerge to investigate the invasion of their territory, where they were met with curiosity at first, then hostility as humanity attempted to scare the craft away so they could plunder the sites for their resources.

3. Now that the exploitation and abuse of the Pleiades sites was in full swing, the Thargoids responded by hyperdicting ships passing through their space, scanning them, then releasing them. The exception to this was if the craft was carrying thargoid technology or materials, in which case, the Thargoids would issue a audio-visual warning via a threat display, and offer the chance for their property to be returned. If the warning was ignored and the property not returned, only then would the Thargoids engage.


In every instance that the Thargoids have interacted with humanity, they have been passive until provoked. Humanity however has taken every chance to shoot at the Thargoids, or failing that, to study them to develop better ways to shoot them.
The Second Thargoid War and the Titans are just a response to a long series of human aggression against a species that never acted aggressively until pushed to it.


With all of the above in mind, I'm asking that the assaults against the Titans be ceased. AX pilot groups have already proven their bloodlust and desire to repeat the behaviour of early 20th century supremacy groups is powerful enough to corral the Titan's defensive fleets back into their origin system. This provides an opportunity to attempt contact, after the failure and sabotage of the Kingfisher outreach megaship.

I invite any Commander or diplomat from the major powers to give good reasoning behind why the assault against the Thargoids should be continued, without rehashing the same talking points which paint the Thargoids as aggressors, when humanity have always fired first.

Side note:
Think of this all as an in-universe post, I get that AX combat can be fun for those who enjoy shooting at the Thargoids that are capable of firing back, and I enjoy AX combat against the armed thargoids myself. But since when have the Pro-Xeno community been given anything at all?

Excellent points OP. How do you suggest we go about doing what you are proposing?

 

[Uiros Ueramos]

Excellent points OP. How do you suggest we go about doing what you are proposing?

 

[St0rmFury]

The last titan will make contact with Seo and they will work together to give rise to the new thargoid faction in PP 2.0.

 

[vanFace]

But since when have the Pro-Xeno community been given anything at all?

There was the casual nod with that pro-xeno activist decal give-out and the Kingfisher, of course. If the later in particular hasn't sent the message about what FDev thinks about the xeno-peace ideas, I don't know what else will. You asked "what about peace?", and FDev basically answered "how about NO?". Deal with it.

 

[TobiasFuzz]

The story is orchestrated by FDev. Any wishes and politics are RP only, and that is ok. Of course the war is the key asset to the storyline/thargoid game-mechanic uninfluenceable in its very nature by players.

But... what all players (not necessarily Cmdrs) should be aware of: Humanity is here the bad guy without a doubt. This vision of the future by FDev is realistic i fear, so no general critizism about this.

 

[SergMx]

3. Now that the exploitation and abuse of the Pleiades sites was in full swing, the Thargoids responded by hyperdicting ships passing through their space, scanning them, then releasing them. The exception to this was if the craft was carrying thargoid technology or materials, in which case, the Thargoids would issue a audio-visual warning via a threat display, and offer the chance for their property to be returned. If the warning was ignored and the property not returned, only then would the Thargoids engage.

Excuse me, are you sure you've played this game ?
When I was carrying guardian artifacts, the Thargoids immediately aggroed me. Is that their thing?

I don't remember the lore very well, but I think thousands of "followers of a distant god" boarded some barge and their Thargoids of that ...
Were they the first to fire on them, too?

 

[Ian Doncaster]

Because shooting them is better than shooting each other.

Indeed. Any request that the Thargoids should be treated better than human hives treat each other (or, indeed, their own drones) is giving them an implausible protected status.

The Thargoids are attacking a species which regularly sends hundreds of its drones to die in ritual slaughters to determine which of its hives should temporarily control particular pieces of infrastructure. A species which will happily authorise the total destruction of a ship carrying over a hundred people that a hive has no objection to because one of them was marked for destruction personally. A species which will fight each other to the death over the ownership of a small rock, while in a planetary ring made of more gigatonnes of rocks than either could carry.

They're an intelligent species with at least a multi-million year history of starflight. They will have been aware going into this that there was no point whatsoever in trying to talk things through and that the cost of military failure would be the loss of all committed assets and personnel. It's not entirely clear what their plan actually was, of course.

 

[Hanerib]

They have plenty of space already, they could just go back where they came from and stop bothering civilized people.

 

[SergMx]

And Peace and War!

 

[Northpin]

... civilized people.

debatable

I would say there are hints that we're not it (civilized people)

 

[Rat Catcher]

To you, the xeno-pacifists, I implore you to reconsider your stance. Join us in the defense of humanity. Understand that this is not a war of choice, but a war of survival. If we do not fight, if we do not stand our ground, there will be nothing left to defend.

I do hope the Thargoids develop a similar Mycoid virus to that we unleashed on them... (and the PMF controlled systems are the first to fall)

Humanity's future depends on our actions today.

So that there is more time to destroy each other?

They have plenty of space already, they could just go back where they came from and stop bothering civilized people.

If there were civilised people to bother, I'm sure they would.

 

[Rainbro]

They have plenty of space already, they could just go back where they came from and stop bothering civilized people.

I'd imagine if peace is possible, that would be one route to it. The problem is in getting the human leaders to agree to do the same. This war started over the Pleiades, Thargoid territory, and the direct discovery that "the Thargoids don't like us invading their territory" has if anything made leaders more excited about doing so.