Engineering and Pre-Built Ships

[CMDR Daiyus]

Thats my point, what happens if this ship is destroyed after stripping it? What modules will be installed if I deselect everything that wasnt stock?

If it's stripped, as in an empty hull with base level E rated core modules, that's all that'll be on offer at rebuy. You'll get the ship for free, and pay the 5% value on the E rated modules as you've paid credits to have them installed. The modules you've taken out, that have a 0Cr cost as you bought them with ARX as part of the prebuild purchase, will be sat safely in storage so won't factor into the rebuy at all.

If you deselect those E rated modules you'll lose them and be given standard E rated modules again, and I believe they'd be loaned modules.

 

[Dirty_Violator]

Will be interesting to see if it's impossible to choose the free sidewinder to stop people accidentally losing the ship, support will be inundated

You can't have empty core internals, they have to be replaced with something.

 

[Northpin]

I think the feared model is different:

1. buy ship for ARX
2. remove any unicorn modules and replace them with default ones
3. wreck the ship
4. pay the now minimal rebuy and get the ship back in its stock form
5. go to 2.

I guess modules have to be locked to the ship? Like you can remove them, so upgrading is not prevented, but you cannot put them on other ships?

I dont see the issue?
If you rebuy, you get the ship as it is at the moment of the explosion - If you put the unicorn modules in storage, you wont rebuy them

 

[fennster]

You can't have empty core internals, they have to be replaced with something.

I edited my post after posting.

 

[Helmut Grokenberger]

I dont see the issue?
If you rebuy, you get the ship as it is at the moment of the explosion - If you put the unicorn modules in storage, you wont rebuy them

Yes, that is what is overlooked in the feared farming scenario. Should habe mentioned that, sorry. The other farming scenario, i.e. actually buying ships for the engineered modules, is just dumb.

 

[Dirty_Violator]

If it's stripped, as in an empty hull with base level E rated core modules, that's all that'll be on offer at rebuy. You'll get the ship for free, and pay the 5% value on the E rated modules as you've paid credits to have them installed. The modules you've taken out, that have a 0Cr cost as you bought them with ARX as part of the prebuild purchase, will be sat safely in storage so won't factor into the rebuy at all.

If you deselect those E rated modules you'll lose them and be given standard E rated modules again, and I believe they'd be loaned modules.

Thats how it should be, I'd like the devs to confirm it. The default for a standard ship is e-rated modules, but these aren't standard ships. We don't know how the game templates ships since we've never had this before. Is the base ship template fixed to all e-rated, or does it just default to what the ship was when it was created? That's my concern.

 

[Gizoux]

It seems really weird to have a mining ship with a 96 ton capacity and ONE collector limpet to gather it all, likely settling for a 0B Pulse Wave Scanner to keep it from shutting down when you deploy hardpoints. I would really sacrifice one of those class 4 cargo racks for an extra class 3 collector which would invalidate the free rebuy of the ship. This way it can be more efficient and still be free without modifications. I think that if I had built a mining ship with a single collector, I'd have lost my mind even when void opals were over 1M a unit.

 

[CMDR Charybdis]

I've recently been helping a friend and new player get started on the engineering unlocks and material requirements. We've done a trip out to the shards, worked through how to locate an HGE, and visited Jameson's Cobra. An FDL with 4xMCs engineered to G3 is now a thing.

None of this is well signposted in the game, and without my time and knowledge of the game this would have been uphill all the way for him. I doubt he would have stayed to work it out himself.

Some suggestions for engineering improvements in no particular order:

• Reduce conversion costs at Material Traders
• Use the search bar on the galaxy map to locate material traders
  • Stations are sorted by distance and the type of trader (raw, encoded, material)
  • This can also be extended to Tech Brokers (human, guardian), Interstellar Factors, blackmarkets etc.
• Mission rewards have material choices (e.g. choose 4 encoded materials at G4)
• Separation of signal source types in the FSS, at least 3 types: materials (high, low, encoded), ship signatures (e.g. wedding barge), combat (ax ships, weapon's fire)
• When engineering an upgrade: first dial to reach maximum will also maximize the others (or perhaps the next roll guarantees all will be at max).
• Codex entries for common sources of materials that name systems/planets: HGEs, Jameson's Cobra, shard forests etc.
• Pinning more blueprints from engineers (a level 5 perk?) for remote engineering
• Pre-engineered modules purchasable from engineers (up to tier 2?)
• Full range of modules purchasable from engineers (up to A rated).
• Can engineer modules without having them fitted to a ship.

There is also a UI improvement: All engineering effects for a module should be visible when you click/select in outfitting (i.e. you shouldn't need to switch to the modification tab to see the level and effects). This kind of uplift on the UI would also be useful in the stored modules screen (as mouseover can reset the modifications view).

Thanks for listening!

 

[Northpin]

Thats how it should be, I'd like the devs to confirm it. The default for a standard ship is e-rated modules, but these aren't standard ships. We don't know how the game templates ships since we've never had this before. Is the base ship template fixed to all e-rated, or does it just default to what the ship was when it was created? That's my concern.

You initially buy the ship with e-rated internals, you a-rate it, you engineer the modules, you go boom, you rebuy
When you rebuy, you dont get the original ship with e-rated internals, you get the one you had when you go boom

That's how it works and that's how it is expected to work for the Arx ships too.

 

[Mrc_NorthEast]

After sitting down last night and digesting this Chieftain "build", I almost feel sorry for whoever buys it. They are going to be roast beef in a matter of seconds. Can't wait for the YouTube video's demonstrating it's amazing AntiXeno prowess.

Ummm, you may want to check out Brother Sabathius's Wed 4/24 Twitch stream vod. He copied the Chieftan build exactly as he had the modules to do it. He made multiple runs on Titan Indra, and survived just fine. He took on 1 solo clops, and then a 2 clops pack with it, he survived just fine. Ok he is a pretty good goid hunter, but this build works. So that build as is, is fit for purpose. Is it the best, nope. But it works. Could I do the same things Bro Sab did with it: I know I could make Titan Indra runs with it, as I use a Chief as well for the same, mine just happens to be almost fully engineered. I know I could hunt scouts with it as well, since I have done that. Me solo'ing a clops I have never done, so not sure, and dual clops I wound not take on, I would boost and high wake.

The ARX ships lack rebuys (which I do not like) and they lack the skill and knowledge to use them appropriately. It should be fun to watch how this works out. But the build itself works.

 

[rootsrat]

If you've removed the G5 drives, that module is in storage and won't be part of the rebuy. Just like you can't manipulate the game in the way you're describing with engineered modules, storage and rebuy in its current state.

Probably. But it would be good to get official confirmation from fdev actually.

 

[aRJay]

Thats my point, what happens if this ship is destroyed after stripping it? What modules will be installed if I deselect everything that wasnt stock?

Can you deselect core modules on the rebuy screen?

 

[rootsrat]

You initially buy the ship with e-rated internals, you a-rate it, you engineer the modules, you go boom, you rebuy
When you rebuy, you dont get the original ship with e-rated internals, you get the one you had when you go boom

That's how it works and that's how it is expected to work for the Arx ships too.

Expectations vs reality doesn't always quite match

 

[Northpin]

Expectations vs reality doesn't always quite match

That's how it works, it's not an expectation
Paul also confirmed that once you alter the build of the Arx ship, replacing modules, you will see the rebuy costs for those modules. - which means you wont get back the unicorn modules which would have 0 rebuy

 

[Dirty_Violator]

These pre- buils are not min/max optimized, but after thinking about it I think it makes more sense. It seems like these ships are designed to give you a leg up, but also leave you some room to improve upon yourself as you get better in the game. If they were fully optimized this would be an egregious p2w scenario

 

[KnezBP]

I do think pre-built ships are a decent compromise in concept, for both new and old players who may be way behind in certain areas of gameplay. It may encourage people to try different game styles and ships at the same time. It also doesn't nullify the effort older players have put into engineering and building a fleet.

Personally speaking, I'd always prefer a ship I've built from the ground up, but it's also nice to have the option of a stop gap to try new things out.

 

[Dirty_Violator]

That's how it works, it's not an expectation
Paul also confirmed that once you alter the build of the Arx ship, replacing modules, you will see the rebuy costs for those modules. - which means you wont get back the unicorn modules which would have 0 rebuy

The concern is how will the game handle slots filled with modules you replaced if you opt not to rebuy them when your ship is destroyed. Is the game smart enough to know that it should stick an e-rated replacement (where necessary) or will it default to what it was created with (the unicorn modules as you put it)? If it does stick an e-rated replacement, will that cost you credits? If so, what if you don't have the necessary credits? Will you lose the whole ship you paid actual money for?

 

[Northpin]

These pre- buils are not min/max optimized, but after thinking about it I think it makes more sense. It seems like these ships are designed to give you a leg up, but also leave you some room to improve upon yourself as you get better in the game. If they were fully optimized this would be an egregious p2w scenario

Hmm, i re-checked the builds and i seem to have missed (unless it's a recent edit) the fact that AX Chief features 6A engineered thrusters (G5 Dirty + Drag Drive)
Which is BAD

 

[rootsrat]

That's how it works, it's not an expectation
Paul also confirmed that once you alter the build of the Arx ship, replacing modules, you will see the rebuy costs for those modules. - which means you wont get back the unicorn modules which would have 0 rebuy

Yes, but we don't know what happens if you deselect the non-native module on the rebuy screen.
You'll get the E- rated or the native one that was part of the original build.
If you can point me to the confirmation it will be E rated, please do. If it's not been confirmed, we can only guess.
The more official info we have, the better.

 

[Paul_Crowther]

What is to stop someone from stripping an ARX-purchased ship of its modules (especially engineered ones), destroying that ship, replacing it, and then repeating the process, essentially farming free engineered modules?

You can't strip the modules off the pre-built ships and store them. They can only be used on the pre-built ship, and if you remove them to replace them with different modules, you have to 'sell' them for 0 credits.