Expensive or not?

[Oddball]

I don't understand what the problem is in having a discussion about the two projects and making a choice about the merits of choosing one or the other.

There is no problem with discussing the two projects. But when someone starts a thread praising another game and discredits 'our game' and saying that it is too expensive it is obvious that the guy is trying to create confrontation.

Comparing the prices of each game is like comparing apples to oranges - you can't do it because they are different games.

 

[Slawkenbergius]

Its an opinion, not an 'attitude'. Many people here have backed both games, I rarely see anything to suggest any particular ill feeling. I don't have ill feeling either. And frankly I couldn't care less about what other people express on other forums. Elite Dangerous is a welcoming and friendly forum.

Its not a 'silly joke'. The US tech industry is far too dominate. What is wrong about supporting a Brit based company?

But lets explore a little more what you suggested. Precisely how does it make your life more difficult, to hear me 'spout this nonsense'?

Firstly, you used the word 'lets' which suggests that we should all join you in your stance of 'competition'. So it reads like you are trying to draw a line and have people take one side against the other. No matter how you meant it, it reads very badly to me. It's very fan-boyish, and fan-boy wars between 'competing' franchises are always exceptionally tedious.

The idea of 'rubbing someone's nose in it' comes from the act pushing a dog's nose into faeces, to teach it not to soil the carpet again. We've got American friends on this forum, and I don't suppose they appreciate that sentiment too much. The Frontier forums are welcoming and friendly, yes, but I really don't think that was a friendly thing to say.

 

[Hamerstein]

I don't think ED is really more expensive if you compare the quality of the starting ships. I think I have now spent an equal amount of money on both titles and for that I can fly two ships in SC and three in ED.

What SC is doing really, really well is keep on fueling the hype. They release the games in bits and continuously release new ships and fun stuff you can buy. I also like how you can trade your ship for in-game credits (without costs) and then buy another ship if it comes out. Of course the new ship may be a bit more expensive so you pay a couple of bucks real money extra.. And so they keep generating revenue while the games is still far, far from being released!

What ED is doing well is developing a very good future proof game design with an almost limitless universe. In time, a lot of ( more detailed ) content can be added.

In short, SC seems to be working more bottom-up and ED more-top down.

Pretty much sums it up for me.

I'm probably a (moderate) rarity among the people who backed space games/sims last year. I haven't pledged to Star citizen at all, even with the tempting price point, I'm just not going to have the time to play both and while I love Chris Roberts' work, Mr. Braben was always going to have my money.

In the long term, SC is probably going to cost more for the dedicated player than ED (because of the marketing model as described above). So I'd rather pay my money upfront and then just play the game.

 

[Cmdr Eagleboy]

This kind of attitude is really not helpful... Some people on the RSI forums already have got the impression that the Frontier forums are 'hostile' to Star Citizen, and are xenophobic and/or stupidly patriotic. 99% of the time that's not true, but then a silly 'joke' like this comes along, and that's all they'll pick up on. Frankly, it makes life a bit worse for the rest of us when stuff like this gets said. Also, I suspect that it has the potential to harm sales if this kind of nonsense is spouted too often.

Some of them have impression that David is some copycat and Roberts wannabie, that SC will be ultimate space sim which will destroy all other games But most of all, most of them *don't* know Elite or sequels, or Elite: Dangerous at all. I really don't see how Cosmo comment can make it worse.

I personally also think that there *is* competition going on between these two projects (I would even say these two different development approaches), and it would be very naive to think that there's no bunch of people in SC community which don't view ED (or any potential project) that way. There are some people who have pledged 10 thousands - and I don't even talk about emotional investment. I have personal experience first hand in lot of corners of Internet in this regard. I think some part of blame goes to quite aggressive PR campaign from CIG part.

Said that, there are significant part of backer community who support both projects and don't view it as competition, but as blessing for genre (I wholeheartedly agree with 'blessing' part ). Those are mostly very easy to communicate and talk with (those include all SC backers here, in forums).

Anyway, price tag for tiers had little if anything to do with popularity of ED Kickstarter. It was met with skepticism, little interest from US media, and hype storm around SC left little room for anything else. FD also had their share of responsibility - PR was almost to null during second and third week. Fortunately, they made right steps to fix situation, and everything turned out well in the end.

 

[Cosmos]

Firstly, you used the word 'lets' which suggests that we should all join you in your stance of 'competition'. So it reads like you are trying to draw a line and have people take one side against the other. No matter how you meant it, it reads very badly to me. It's very fan-boyish, and fan-boy wars between 'competing' franchises are always exceptionally tedious.

The idea of 'rubbing someone's nose in it' comes from the act pushing a dog's nose into faeces, to teach it not to soil the carpet again. We've got American friends on this forum, and I don't suppose they appreciate that sentiment too much. The Frontier forums are welcoming and friendly, yes, but I really don't think that was a friendly thing to say.

OMG..

You have taken what I said and twisted it into something totally warped and entirely different to what I wrote.

Chill out.

 

[Flavio]

Elite is certainly more expensive than Star Citizen to back. I got alpha on Star Citizen for $35, whereas it was £200 for Elite. That price-point may have been a misjudgement on Frontier's part, as there are over 600 slots left. That said, it may make the Elite alpha that little more exciting, knowing that you're one of about a thousand, rather than one of nearly two hundred thousand...

No idea what the result would have been if the prices had been lower for Elite, or if the campaign was run along similar lines to Star Citizen's. Fortunately I don't think it will have a negative impact on the quality of the game, which what I really care about.

I am wondering if the two games are going to use the alpha testers input a bit differently in that SC may need lots of people to find bugs for them as they don't have that many in house testers while ED need the testers to check gameplay and therefore will need to read everyone's input which will be too difficult if there are too many people since the technical bugs may have mostly been squashed since it is running on a proven engine.
As someone pointed out, these two games are very different in approach but are targeting a similar audience, namely sci-fi gamers but will feel different and is being handled differently.
I know that both will be excellent.

PS Disclaimer: all that was my opinion

 

[Associat0r]

and SC being the more ambitious (i guess?) and already more successful project doesn't help it either.

Can we all please inform ourselves and stop spreading the myth that SC is more ambitious than ED please?
While in fact it's the other way around.

 

[Slawkenbergius]

OMG..

You have taken what I said and twisted it into something totally warped and entirely different to what I wrote.

Chill out.

To be honest, it's not something I'm that het up about. I didn't twist anything you said, but just pointed out how it reads, and that the 'it' stands for '**it' in the phrase you used. The whole point behind the phrase is that 'rubbing someone's nose in it' is a horrible thing to do.

A couple of times on the Star Citizen forums I've fended off accusations against this community. Your comment typified the kind of thing that would put people off coming over here, possibly even buying the game, so it felt wrong to let it slide.

 

[Calebe]

Is it worth 30 pounds is up to you. For me personally I pledged 100 pounds so to me it is worth that let alone 30 pounds to download and play the game. I am debating with myself whether to go up another 50 for being a founder member of the Elite.

I also like many backed Star Citizen, but am anxiously awaiting Elite, as I have fond memories playing this back in the day on my Commodore 64. So much fun and so many hours playing it. I just had to back it when I had the chance and I don't regret one dime of it, and as said I may add quite a few more.

In any event, choose to back the game or buy it at retail whichever you think will be cheaper in the end for you. I have a hunch 30 pounds for a digital copy will save you some money, but that is for you to decide. Either way I hope you do buy the game and enjoy it, as we all will.

Calebe

 

[munkor]

A couple of times on the Star Citizen forums I've fended off accusations against this community. Your comment typified the kind of thing that would put people off coming over here, possibly even buying the game, so it felt wrong to let it slide.

having backed both (but gone big with ED) i have seen this multiple times too. They are the same genre, why make it an in-fight when there are potential backers we could be losing by alienation

 

[Gelbrock]

Am I a tight git? guilty as charged.... I re use a tea bag a frightening amount of times, I brew my own beer instead of pubbing it and I still eat 2 minute noodles and a banana for dinner when Im on my own. I use vegetable oil in my chainsaw, my kids play with cardboard boxes and loo rolls instead of expensive noisy plastic crap....

But I thought 100 pounds was a steal for the deluxe box and all the extras...

To some of us its also backing 30 years of space game history. Paying for moments of your childhood and playing an original classic game we played in the mid 80s, but with all the mod cons. Now THATS worth a mere 30 quid let alone 100.

I can also see the passion Mr Braben and co have about making a great updated game and not just a money maker. I have no doubt its the same over with the good people at SC, just maybe minus the 30 year history.

 

[Tiwaz]

Best to look what games offer and decide based on that.
I have backed both, but at this moment FD is winning my interest by offering me more simple solution to get rid of crap I hate, namely PvP and it's inevitable entourage.

For SC, I have to find private server (which someone has to run) to have that freedom. Now I can simply choose private group.

Perhaps Roberts changes his thinking and scales tip again but that remains to be seen.
But truth is, I doubt there is room and money out there for SC, FD and EVE. One or two of them have to go down to provide enough players and funding for the survivor(s) to keep rolling in long term. Which ones you expect to survive might also be worth noting when deciding where to toss the money.

 

[Pyros]

Best to look what games offer and decide based on that.
I have backed both, but at this moment FD is winning my interest by offering me more simple solution to get rid of crap I hate, namely PvP and it's inevitable entourage.

For SC, I have to find private server (which someone has to run) to have that freedom. Now I can simply choose private group.

Perhaps Roberts changes his thinking and scales tip again but that remains to be seen.
But truth is, I doubt there is room and money out there for SC, FD and EVE. One or two of them have to go down to provide enough players and funding for the survivor(s) to keep rolling in long term. Which ones you expect to survive might also be worth noting when deciding where to toss the money.

I do think there is plenty of room for both games. With the launch of the Kickstarters of SC, ED and even LT - specially SC amazing crowdsourcing initiative - the interest for the genre has piqued. Something that enlarges the market and expands upon it - many players new to the genre have been attracted to it, specially on the American market.

While both games have a online component, their post MMO design makes them less dependent on big player numbers to create a game world experience. I also believe that the cost structure is far lighter than traditional MMOs in terms of servers and support needs.

The MMO in the room - Eve - is the one that has the most to lose. But it has proved time and time again to be quite durable and have a strong following.

Now, on the SC / ED relationship.. Like many, I've happily backed both games - ED far more - and I believe that both will be great games on their own. Quite different approaches, and both enrich each other. I see it more as coopetition than competition.
Using a movie image I like both 2001 and Star Wars. The world is better with both than it would be with only either of one (although this image is slightly flawed because those too movies have far less in common than ED and SC will).
Even Limit Theory can bring good things to the genre.

What we do not need is an aggressive attitude versus either game, game developer or respective communities / supporters. It is nonsense in the most trivial way. Destructive and pointless.

A side note on the American dominated business: American companies (actually publishers like EA) may "dominate" the market with "crappy games". I differ strongly, as the quality of PC games has been quite high (from Skyrim to Bioshock), the indie scene has been extremely alive and successful (also thanks to digital distribution systems like Steam) and many - most - developers are not even US based (Montreal, Sweden, Croatia,...).

But what makes the "American domination" point rather moot is that these are not publisher owned games. These are crowd funded initiatives that support the vision of very talented individuals.

Oh, and I do not forget CR support of Elite in times of need

 

[Aewarin Jameson]

Oh, and I do not forget CR support of Elite in times of need

I won't be drawn into the argument as to whether ED is expensive or not - it's relative to your own means.

However I would like to point this quote out - Whilst I am sure ED would have still made the mark Chris's mention helped our cause a considerable amount.

I will thank him personally during the Alpha by means of a missile up his six

 

[Susimetsa]

Also the only real way to get bigger and better ships in Elite is by gameplay means, earning credits via trading and missions etc. So its more of a level playing field for everyone who plays the multiplayer aspect of the game.

The main point of Elite is that there are, in essence, NO "bigger and better ships". There are merely ships filling different kinds of roles and you'll pick the one that is the best possible match for your playstyle and the missions you are going to carry out.

I've backed both projects, but since Elite4 is clearly the more ambitious of them - modelling an entire galaxy as it is - and hearkens back to my early teens, I'm looking forward to it a lot more than I look forward to SC.

 

[Erimus Kamzel]

Elite has been well received on the Star Citizen forums.

https://forums.robertsspaceindustries.com/discussion/13253/elite-dangerous-discussion-thread/p8

A lot of people who never even knew about Braben's games in the US are looking on with keen interest. So both games will be good for each other. Both games will inspire each other to push the limits, and both games may see a lot of crossover from each others playerbase.

We've waited so long for a decent space sim game now we've been spoiled by having two ambitious games coming out in the same year. I personally think it'll be a bit of a missed opportunity to try one without trying the other too.

To the OP; Its not as if they're subscription games where you have to pay a monthly fee. Treat yourself and try both.

 

[Philip Coutts]

I'll add 3 points to this discussion. Firstly you could actually get a copy of the game + 500 bonus credits for £25 during the Kickstarter. I think this level was put in later on in the KS and limited to 5000 spots of which over 3600 remained unsold at the end of the KS. Secondly there was (in my opinion) a great offer at £80 which gave you the game and all future expansions. So no more paying if you want extra ships or weapons, it was all included. Finally as has been pointed out even at £30 this is a bargain. Given you have to pay over £30 for the latest re-hash of FIFA for any console I know which one is going to last longer and give me more pleasure.

As for Star Citezan, good luck to Chris Roberts and co, comes across as a throughly decent sort who gave ED a shout when we were in that tricky mid-KS period. What he has achieved through crowdfunding is nothing short of flabergasting.

 

[Cosmo Bozo]

The way I view it is, you can easily spend much more on a single night out and have nothing to show for it but a headache and some vague patchy memories...
Compared to that any decent game that will keep you entertained for a decent amount of time is well worth the money.
Similarly the cost per hour is way cheaper than seeing a film at the cinema...
Its cheap entertainment

 

[Thargon]

The way I view it is, you can easily spend much more on a single night out and have nothing to show for it but a headache and some vague patchy memories...
Compared to that any decent game that will keep you entertained for a decent amount of time is well worth the money.
Similarly the cost per hour is way cheaper than seeing a film at the cinema...
Its cheap entertainment

Think of it in terms of beers. 12 1/2 beers (give or take) - in one session, naturally - or a game of Elite Dangerous for life... hmmm.

But on the whole SC vs ED thing - I back both, and both will be different in their own way. I think in general, there's no "us vs them" mentality, but there is a lot of fandom going on. A lot of people have been drawn into the crowdfunding thing because it is new and exciting, and hasn't been done before.

A lof of people are getting involved I think for the journey - the ability to influence the outcome - the end product - that just pledge/give money only for the game itself. I think this is one of the major drivers.

Personally, I'm in it for both - the sense of community, the ability to get involved and influence the output, give over my opinion, and at the end of the day get something I really, really wanna play.

 

[Strykor]

Being new to the forums and discovering Elite Dangerous,,, I have to say I was well impressed wit the amount and cost of options for a game of this magnitude

< Proud Premium Boxed owner....