Experimental's that may replace Chaff.

[Wily Rites]

I'm working on honing my combat krait at the moment, as the krait has only 4 utility slots, I'm using thermal vent on beams rather than heat sinks to manage the heat of my plasma accelerators.
Now on my plasma's I've currently got one large and two medium, with the other large being a beam laser with the thermal vent.

I'm using dispersal field on one plasma, dazzle shell and target lock breaker; My thought being that this can negate the need of a chaff launcher giving me more utility points for shield boosters.

Do you have any thoughts or advice on these experimental, am I ok in my logic, or, doing something that is not so cunning in trying this combo and putting the three together? It's kind of hard to tell in the fray of battle and getting some extra takes on this would be awesome.

I'm currently only doing PvE, but am keen to get a good idea of how each thing works and to what it is best suited. I'll be trying my hand at PvP in the future too, I'm sure; Advice for either would be very welcome.

Thanks!

 

[aRJay]

By Flac are you talking about the Point Defence Turret or ECM?

 

[Wily Rites]

By Flac are you talking about the Point Defence Turret or ECM?

Oh! My bad, I do apologise, I meant Chaff.

In the title too, can I change that? Is there a rock around here somewhere that I can crawl under? ... :|

 

[Screemonster]

Dispersal field is fine if you're only fighting one opponent at a time. Target lock breaker is useless against NPCs, as is dazzle.

For general PvE work, you'll probably find an extra shield booster will make more difference than the chaff will. If you're going against other players, on the other hand...

Well, the kinda players that chaff tends to be effective against aren't usually the ones you have to worry about.

 

[Dillon Fallon]

Thermal conduit on short range PAs? Although my reasoning for that is that you don't need chaff when the opponent is already dead.

 

[Wily Rites]

Dispersal field is fine if you're only fighting one opponent at a time. Target lock breaker is useless against NPCs, as is dazzle.

For general PvE work, you'll probably find an extra shield booster will make more difference than the chaff will. If you're going against other players, on the other hand...

Well, the kinda players that chaff tends to be effective against aren't usually the ones you have to worry about.

Hehe, right yes, gimbals are useful but perhaps best not depended upon.

I'm taking on up to 3 at a time at the moment, two is fine, still figuring 3 out.

Right so target lock breaker is not really doing much, does it stop sealer missiles perhaps? I've not used missiles as yet, so know nothing about those.
I was under the impression that dazzle shell reduced accuracy, is this not the case?

I have been wondering if I wouldn't be better with dispersal field on all of them. Or perhaps on the small ones, then overpowered on the one large one.

 

[Wily Rites]

Thermal conduit on short range PAs? Although my reasoning for that is that you don't need chaff when the opponent is already dead.

I've one beam laser with thermal vent, to allow me to run short range plasmas rather than the efficient weapon. It is nice for dealing with vipers too, which can be a pain to hit with plasma.

I use it to keep cool for shield cells too, but I might not need that once I clear Lori Jameson and get the grade 3 cell bank mod.

 

[Dillon Fallon]

Hehe, right yes, gimbals are useful but perhaps best not depended upon.

Right so target lock breaker is not really doing much, does it stop sealer missiles perhaps? I've not used missiles as yet, so know nothing about those.
I was under the impression that dazzle shell reduced accuracy, is this not the case?

I have been wondering if I wouldn't be better with dispersal field on all of them. Or perhaps on the small ones, then overpowered on the one large one.

On my all plasma FdL I run thermal conduit on the huge and 3 of the mediums with dispersal on the last medium. The effects of dazzle shell doesn't really amount to much and dispersal is an on/off effect like corrosive or drag munitions - so no point stacking it. Target lock beaker is more of a PvP experimental (a player will generally retarget you almost as fast as an NPC, but it makes module sniping more difficult when you're having to rescroll through half a dozen modules every several seconds while still fighting). Any missiles in flight are already locked on you, so you'd have to hit the missile, not the ship (assuming that would even work), so not worth it for that reason either.

 

[zeta]

I'm working on honing my combat krait at the moment, as the krait has only 4 utility slots, I'm using thermal vent on beams rather than heat sinks to manage the heat of my plasma accelerators.
Now on my plasma's I've currently got one large and two medium, with the other large being a beam laser with the thermal vent.

I'm using dispersal field on one plasma, dazzle shell and target lock breaker; My thought being that this can negate the need of a chaff launcher giving me more utility points for shield boosters.

Do you have any thoughts or advice on these experimental, am I ok in my logic, or, doing something that is not so cunning in trying this combo and putting the three together? It's kind of hard to tell in the fray of battle and getting some extra takes on this would be awesome.

I'm currently only doing PvE, but am keen to get a good idea of how each thing works and to what it is best suited. I'll be trying my hand at PvP in the future too, I'm sure; Advice for either would be very welcome.

Thanks!

I agree with Dillon and Screemonster.

For PVE, dispersal on one is ok, but the krait is a fairly large ship, you'd have to fly it so that the npc only faces you while you are not turning.

In PVP, dazzle and dispersal are useless. tlb is ok if run a biweave (so they can't subtarget your modules) given you hit with your tlb-pa often enough. However you are likely to get plasma-rammed via a prismatic shield, then your shields drop and you are toast.

You are actually handycapping yourself by using a beam with thermal vent. Add 2 MRPs and use the heat with TC experimental, it is far more efrective. True that if heat really damaged ships you should worry about cooling, but that's not how currently heat mechanics works. By the time an FDL incurs enough damage due to running hot, you are long dead. In fact pvp pilots make an effort to keep their heat up so that extra dmg due to TC is applied for each PA volley.

If you have multiple SCBs on the krait and you double bank, you'll need a heatsink anyway (like a 5A prismatic with a 5A and 6A SCBs or a 6A prismatic with 3 5A SCBs). If you use 3 5A SCBs one at a time, you can get your heat up just enough so that your PAs with TC work. In addition, if you run a prismatic and 2-3 mrps, you may not even need a TLB experimental.

I recommend 2SRBs on small HPs and 2 efficient PAs on large ones, all with TC, run a prismatics and a bunch of SCBs.
When your shield drop, it depends how you built your ship. If you have around 2k hull and 2 MRPs, you can stay and fight. To break their target lock, toggle silent running often on and off, especially on an approach. It will not matter that SR breaks your shield recharge because you won't last long enough for prismatics to recharge anyway. This is the reason why the only build that requires a TLB is a build with biweaves. Neither hulltanks nor shieldtanks need it imo.

The only time I ever found the need for chaff is when I take on a pirate FDL and its entire wing with a small ship like the viper. In that case I use double chaff with biweave thermal lo draw shield and either mirrored composite with lightweight mod, one small kinetic hrp rest heavy duty or the lightweight armor with thermal mod and all heavy duty experimental. Viper is both fast and small so when shields drop the only danger is lasers/rails, so high thermal resistance on armor is key.

 

[Wily Rites]

Thermal conduit on short range PAs? Although my reasoning for that is that you don't need chaff when the opponent is already dead.

I do apologise, it took me quite a while to digest your very concise post. Right yes, I'm starting to see entirely another side of the heat management, that had just not occurred to me before. I am going to experiment with this, seems like it could be a lot of fun.
In game with PvE, in the past I've quite enjoyed using a hull tanked design and repairing on route with the appropriate limpets, and AFM, this set up with shields and their use could lend itself to some PvE fun by combining a AFM.

That said, I might not need to go out looking for 3 kill missions of level 8 pirates at a time, with the new engineering balance; I hope that they don't also make it easier to become elite, else the status loose some of its shine! Anyhow, it was fun to repair the ship or to be able to keep going between missions, to rack them up, before returning to a base.

I agree with Dillon and Screemonster.

For PVE, dispersal on one is ok, but the krait is a fairly large ship, you'd have to fly it so that the npc only faces you while you are not turning.

In PVP, dazzle and dispersal are useless. tlb is ok if run a biweave (so they can't subtarget your modules) given you hit with your tlb-pa often enough. However you are likely to get plasma-rammed via a prismatic shield, then your shields drop and you are toast.

You are actually handycapping yourself by using a beam with thermal vent. Add 2 MRPs and use the heat with TC experimental, it is far more efrective. True that if heat really damaged ships you should worry about cooling, but that's not how currently heat mechanics works. By the time an FDL incurs enough damage due to running hot, you are long dead. In fact pvp pilots make an effort to keep their heat up so that extra dmg due to TC is applied for each PA volley.

If you have multiple SCBs on the krait and you double bank, you'll need a heatsink anyway (like a 5A prismatic with a 5A and 6A SCBs or a 6A prismatic with 3 5A SCBs). If you use 3 5A SCBs one at a time, you can get your heat up just enough so that your PAs with TC work. In addition, if you run a prismatic and 2-3 mrps, you may not even need a TLB experimental.

I recommend 2SRBs on small HPs and 2 efficient PAs on large ones, all with TC, run a prismatics and a bunch of SCBs.
When your shield drop, it depends how you built your ship. If you have around 2k hull and 2 MRPs, you can stay and fight. To break their target lock, toggle silent running often on and off, especially on an approach. It will not matter that SR breaks your shield recharge because you won't last long enough for prismatics to recharge anyway. This is the reason why the only build that requires a TLB is a build with biweaves. Neither hulltanks nor shieldtanks need it imo.

The only time I ever found the need for chaff is when I take on a pirate FDL and its entire wing with a small ship like the viper. In that case I use double chaff with biweave thermal lo draw shield and either mirrored composite with lightweight mod, one small kinetic hrp rest heavy duty or the lightweight armor with thermal mod and all heavy duty experimental. Viper is both fast and small so when shields drop the only danger is lasers/rails, so high thermal resistance on armor is key.

Thank you for this detailed breakdown, took me a while to grok but I got there in the end.
I'd not thought about the surface area of the pancake like krait before, true that, like shooting the side of a bus. I do keep mine pinned to the thrusters min weight though, for fastest turning. The pip management is a bit of a nightmare for me at the moment, and likely to cause me some tendon grief, but I've a clear idea of where I'm going with that for turning, once it is easy to get to the pip management controls, on some other input device.
I was using 4 plasma with efficient weapon, but came across a particularly pesky pair of vipers in PvE and that led me to making the change. The beam really helping when you get a viper that gets a good pilot role on combat start, true that it is great practice for landing plasma hits, but when there are two of them, maintaining shield whist lowering theirs, becomes some what of an unbalanced affair.
I'm loving the thought of rockets, I think that is what SRB's are, am going to try your suggestion right after trying adding another short range large plasma cannon and slapping thermal conduit on all of them, which really does sound like a hell of a lot of fun. Man, the damage, oh the damage, a little to me, but the damage to them that this is going to deal! Me thinks that this could be the road to space madness though. As such, I'll be putting you plan into action, with the consideration that a stainable in game build that also deals a lot of punishment, without inducing quite the same effects, could well be a nice in between.
I've had a lot of fun with 2 plasma and 2 rail guns too. I'm kind of tempted by the mk ii for the extra hard point to allow for the beam as an extra, but the phantom seems to really by my thing at the moment.

Oh boy am I looking forwards to trying the FDL, still holding off for now, but I think I'm going to enjoy.

Thanks for all the info, I'd not imagined just how wrong I was, and it is so difficult to tell with the little feedback that you get from PvE.

addendum:
On re reading I see that I was thoroughly confused by all the new terminology, much more value here on my second read, thanks again.

 

[Wily Rites]

I am going to have to try the viper too, it is really starting to seem like a very viable combat option! That and the vulture, oh the fun the fun to be had!

 

[Rubbernuke]

Well, the kinda players that chaff tends to be effective against aren't usually the ones you have to worry about.

⧠

Δ

 

[Dillon Fallon]

I do apologise, it took me quite a while to digest your very concise post. Right yes, I'm starting to see entirely another side of the heat management, that had just not occurred to me before. I am going to experiment with this, seems like it could be a lot of fun.
In game with PvE, in the past I've quite enjoyed using a hull tanked design and repairing on route with the appropriate limpets, and AFM, this set up with shields and their use could lend itself to some PvE fun by combining a AFM.

That said, I might not need to go out looking for 3 kill missions of level 8 pirates at a time, with the new engineering balance; I hope that they don't also make it easier to become elite, else the status loose some of its shine! Anyhow, it was fun to repair the ship or to be able to keep going between missions, to rack them up, before returning to a base.


Thank you for this detailed breakdown, took me a while to grok but I got there in the end.
I'd not thought about the surface area of the pancake like krait before, true that, like shooting the side of a bus. I do keep mine pinned to the thrusters min weight though, for fastest turning. The pip management is a bit of a nightmare for me at the moment, and likely to cause me some tendon grief, but I've a clear idea of where I'm going with that for turning, once it is easy to get to the pip management controls, on some other input device.
I was using 4 plasma with efficient weapon, but came across a particularly pesky pair of vipers in PvE and that led me to making the change. The beam really helping when you get a viper that gets a good pilot role on combat start, true that it is great practice for landing plasma hits, but when there are two of them, maintaining shield whist lowering theirs, becomes some what of an unbalanced affair.
I'm loving the thought of rockets, I think that is what SRB's are, am going to try your suggestion right after trying adding another short range large plasma cannon and slapping thermal conduit on all of them, which really does sound like a hell of a lot of fun. Man, the damage, oh the damage, a little to me, but the damage to them that this is going to deal! Me thinks that this could be the road to space madness though. As such, I'll be putting you plan into action, with the consideration that a stainable in game build that also deals a lot of punishment, without inducing quite the same effects, could well be a nice in between.
I've had a lot of fun with 2 plasma and 2 rail guns too. I'm kind of tempted by the mk ii for the extra hard point to allow for the beam as an extra, but the phantom seems to really by my thing at the moment.

Oh boy am I looking forwards to trying the FDL, still holding off for now, but I think I'm going to enjoy.

Thanks for all the info, I'd not imagined just how wrong I was, and it is so difficult to tell with the little feedback that you get from PvE.

What I can say is that with 5 PAs on an FdL (2 medium short range an the rest efficient), running thermal conduit experimentals with 4 pips to weapons (to allow the capacitor to refill for maximum rate of fire) makes pretty short work of assassination targets. SCBs on NPCs cease being an issue and I've had a few "where did their hull go?" moments as well.

Just remember to jiggle those pips about back into 'sys' when something starts shooting at you.

 

[zeta]

I do apologise, it took me quite a while to digest your very concise post. Right yes, I'm starting to see entirely another side of the heat management, that had just not occurred to me before. I am going to experiment with this, seems like it could be a lot of fun.
In game with PvE, in the past I've quite enjoyed using a hull tanked design and repairing on route with the appropriate limpets, and AFM, this set up with shields and their use could lend itself to some PvE fun by combining a AFM.

That said, I might not need to go out looking for 3 kill missions of level 8 pirates at a time, with the new engineering balance; I hope that they don't also make it easier to become elite, else the status loose some of its shine! Anyhow, it was fun to repair the ship or to be able to keep going between missions, to rack them up, before returning to a base.


Thank you for this detailed breakdown, took me a while to grok but I got there in the end.
I'd not thought about the surface area of the pancake like krait before, true that, like shooting the side of a bus. I do keep mine pinned to the thrusters min weight though, for fastest turning. The pip management is a bit of a nightmare for me at the moment, and likely to cause me some tendon grief, but I've a clear idea of where I'm going with that for turning, once it is easy to get to the pip management controls, on some other input device.
I was using 4 plasma with efficient weapon, but came across a particularly pesky pair of vipers in PvE and that led me to making the change. The beam really helping when you get a viper that gets a good pilot role on combat start, true that it is great practice for landing plasma hits, but when there are two of them, maintaining shield whist lowering theirs, becomes some what of an unbalanced affair.
I'm loving the thought of rockets, I think that is what SRB's are, am going to try your suggestion right after trying adding another short range large plasma cannon and slapping thermal conduit on all of them, which really does sound like a hell of a lot of fun. Man, the damage, oh the damage, a little to me, but the damage to them that this is going to deal! Me thinks that this could be the road to space madness though. As such, I'll be putting you plan into action, with the consideration that a stainable in game build that also deals a lot of punishment, without inducing quite the same effects, could well be a nice in between.
I've had a lot of fun with 2 plasma and 2 rail guns too. I'm kind of tempted by the mk ii for the extra hard point to allow for the beam as an extra, but the phantom seems to really by my thing at the moment.

Oh boy am I looking forwards to trying the FDL, still holding off for now, but I think I'm going to enjoy.

Thanks for all the info, I'd not imagined just how wrong I was, and it is so difficult to tell with the little feedback that you get from PvE.

Once you try pvp, there are excellent pilots out there who will give you advice on build, etc ... .

Regarding the phantom 4PA build, it is not meant to kill small pvp ships (pve ok). With 2 large SRBs and 2 long range rails it's easier imo, because small ships are weaker to rails. They are agile, but you keep your range and rotate. With PAs, you'd have to boost bleed with the phantom vs a small pvp ship.

As far as pips go, outside of competitive pvp you only need 420 and 024 for the kraits. faoff will make things much easier in the long run, but if you can't, put pitch and yaw on a mouse, faon, and toggle relative mouse (last setting under mouse controls) while in faon. It will let your ship gently swing and may help with precision shots.

PAs work incredibly well on the fdl. You have to be an exceptional pilot in a krait with PAs/rails to kill a good fdl pilot in my experience. On the other hand a krait with frags on the large hps and rails on the small ones is pretty good against any pvp ship regardless of size. Because most pvp ships run prismatics with 1 RA, 1Thermal and rest with HD boosters, their shields are much stronger against kinetic than against thermal dmg. So you want 2 incendiary frags, but with 2 rails the phantom is weak vs hulls. So you can take 1 rail only with phantom, or just do the krait mk2. The mk2 with 3 large PAs or 3 large frags(1 corrosive 2 incendiary) and 2 rails is very good. The python mk2 with 4 pacifiers is great too.

 

[Wily Rites]

⧠

Δ

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[Wily Rites]

Once you try pvp, there are excellent pilots out there who will give you advice on build, etc ... .

Regarding the phantom 4PA build, it is not meant to kill small pvp ships (pve ok). With 2 large SRBs and 2 long range rails it's easier imo, because small ships are weaker to rails. They are agile, but you keep your range and rotate. With PAs, you'd have to boost bleed with the phantom vs a small pvp ship.

As far as pips go, outside of competitive pvp you only need 420 and 024 for the kraits. faoff will make things much easier in the long run, but if you can't, put pitch and yaw on a mouse, faon, and toggle relative mouse (last setting under mouse controls) while in faon. It will let your ship gently swing and may help with precision shots.

PAs work incredibly well on the fdl. You have to be an exceptional pilot in a krait with PAs/rails to kill a good fdl pilot in my experience. On the other hand a krait with frags on the large hps and rails on the small ones is pretty good against any pvp ship regardless of size. Because most pvp ships run prismatics with 1 RA, 1Thermal and rest with HD boosters, their shields are much stronger against kinetic than against thermal dmg. So you want 2 incendiary frags, but with 2 rails the phantom is weak vs hulls. So you can take 1 rail only with phantom, or just do the krait mk2. The mk2 with 3 large PAs or 3 large frags(1 corrosive 2 incendiary) and 2 rails is very good. The python mk2 with 4 pacifiers is great too.

Right yes, I've had more luck with rails for smaller ships than PA's but its still pretty tricky to get the timing on em, easy with focused PA's though, that faster shot makes a hell of a lot of difference, when swatting mosquitos!

Ah, frag cannons, I've not tried those yet either, I'm guessing a larger damage radius that is enough to get the small ships, and good for damaging the big ones, if your up close and get the with the entire content of the volley.

I'm concerned by the lower maneuverability of the mk ii, but that said I've not yet really tried it, and my current use of the phantoms extra maneuverability is really limited by my access to the pips. I'm thinking of growing another thumb, to resolve this issue!

I'm intrigued to learn about how a krait matches up with an FDL, I am very aware of how one type of craft can take advantage over the entire field, given engineering and environment constraints. But I can not not see those extra pips for maneuverability of the FDL in the ship management section, I kind of wonder just how close the krait phantom with G5 dirty drag drives, or other, gets to the maneuverability of the FDL, or to that extra blue level in the maneuverability scale in that ships spec section.

 

[Wily Rites]

I'm still a little nervous to try PvP, but am sure that I'll pluck up the courage soon enough. I am looking forwards to it though, this notion of boost and boost timing is still very much a mystery to me.

What I can say is that with 5 PAs on an FdL (2 medium short range an the rest efficient), running thermal conduit experimentals with 4 pips to weapons (to allow the capacitor to refill for maximum rate of fire) makes pretty short work of assassination targets. SCBs on NPCs cease being an issue and I've had a few "where did their hull go?" moments as well.

Just remember to jiggle those pips about back into 'sys' when something starts shooting at you.

I was just having a look at the FDL's specs, I've no notion of what a huge hard point can do as yet, and four medium, how this correlates to the two medium and two large of the krait phantom. Is one huge and two medium worth a lot more than two large?

... I'll have to have a look at the damage specks.

Dang those extra utility mounts would come in handy though.

I need to learn to pace my game play a little though, not sure whether to try a transport build next or another combat, shall perhaps just keep going with the phantom, and see where that lands me, I can always change later on if needs be.

 

[AEBRAM]

The Krait m2 does not have many hardpoints to spare, however, I will post this anyways.

An engineered Cannon, c1 or c2, c1 would be preferred, blueprinted for Long Range (increases range and shot speed) with the Dispersal Field experiment basically grants your ship constant Chaff benefits against single enemies. Plus, the c1 has decent ammo capacity in terms of the purpose of the hardpoint, over the ammo capacity of the Chaff.

Now you can still equip one Chaff when you have to scatter tracking on more than one opponent targeting you. I equipped two small c1 cannons in turrets engineered this way for that express purpose since the target's positioning becomes less advantageous while bring them into the cross hairs of my other weapons. And, if you are fighting a fixed target opponent, you still inflict hull damage on hits with a fair breach chance.

 

[Dillon Fallon]

I'm still a little nervous to try PvP, but am sure that I'll pluck up the courage soon enough. I am looking forwards to it though, this notion of boost and boost timing is still very much a mystery to me.


I was just having a look at the FDL's specs, I've no notion of what a huge hard point can do as yet, and four medium, how this correlates to the two medium and two large of the krait phantom. Is one huge and two medium worth a lot more than two large?

... I'll have to have a look at the damage specks.

Dang those extra utility mounts would come in handy though.

I need to learn to pace my game play a little though, not sure whether to try a transport build next or another combat, shall perhaps just keep going with the phantom, and see where that lands me, I can always change later on if needs be.

With the FdL it's not so much a case of damage output (which the Krait Phantom might even have the better of it in practice thanks to the class 7 distributor) it's the fact that when you've played with the vertical and lateral thrusters a bit that it goes exactly where you want it to when you want it to. There's definitely a noticeable difference in how it moves from a Phantom (as good as the Phantom is).

Add a 3000+ mj shield if you put a prismatic on there and you're pretty much indestructible in PvE.

 

[Wily Rites]

The Krait m2 does not have many hardpoints to spare, however, I will post this anyways.

An engineered Cannon, c1 or c2, c1 would be preferred, blueprinted for Long Range (increases range and shot speed) with the Dispersal Field experiment basically grants your ship constant Chaff benefits against single enemies. Plus, the c1 has decent ammo capacity in terms of the purpose of the hardpoint, over the ammo capacity of the Chaff.

Now you can still equip one Chaff when you have to scatter tracking on more than one opponent targeting you. I equipped two small c1 cannons in turrets engineered this way for that express purpose since the target's positioning becomes less advantageous while bring them into the cross hairs of my other weapons. And, if you are fighting a fixed target opponent, you still inflict hull damage on hits with a fair breach chance.

What are c1 c2? I've been using cannons on my 2 large hard points on the phantom, and have loved those, I've found those to be a great lead into using both plasma, and also pips. I found with the cannons, once the shields were stripped, I could just put full pips to shields, two to engines and then just finish the job with the cannons, as the power draw is so low; It was the first time that I really took note of them, the pips. Short range cannons with auto load was what I was using from memory. Then again, beam lasers for the shields, overcharged was great as it really brought a chill to the ship for shield cell release. I'm now in a bit of a conundrum as to heat management, scratching my head and pondering thermal conduit.

With the FdL it's not so much a case of damage output (which the Krait Phantom might even have the better of it in practice thanks to the class 7 distributor) it's the fact that when you've played with the vertical and lateral thrusters a bit that it goes exactly where you want it to when you want it to. There's definitely a noticeable difference in how it moves from a Phantom (as good as the Phantom is).

Add a 3000+ mj shield if you put a prismatic on there and you're pretty much indestructible in PvE.

Ah prismatics, I've not used those at all yet, I have done a stint with 5A shields and and a 6A cell bank, but returned to bi-weave for in game play, as I tend to be able to fly in a way by which the shields return faster than they leave, against a single engineered vulture at least. And pretty much against anything that hazardous mining sites throw at you.

The mk ii does look as though the extra 6 slot would some considerable difference to the shied use options, as would prismatics when I get to those.

I'm sure that all this is very different in PvP though.