To anyone who uses the term PvPer and Ganker interchangeably and thinks that anyone who loves PvP is a seal-clubbing, Deciat stalking, murderhobo lol
PvP Exploit or clever use of game mechanics?
Well, as @Bigmaec said, there is a lot of overlapping.
Some of the most enjoyable sources (for me) of pvp/ganking movies are SDC and ROA - both groups good pvp-ers and even more impressive gankers
Also, you should check the roster for Distant Ganks. MIght be a funny reading
Now, mind you, i'm not really condemning ganking.
But what triggered me is our OP, self confessed ganker (which as i said i dont condemn, but i do find it less honorable) getting miffed when they get ganked (well, sort of) and their gankers also employ less honorable tactics like wake to reboot shields.
In all the fairness, it turns out that our OP was actually curious if the trick is considered cheating - well, it's not.
It not nice when someone does that to you, but then its not nice either for the gankee to be ganked.
So, the wheel is turning... as Dead or Alive used to sing... Like a record, baby, right 'round, 'round, 'round
As a side note: some of the gankers can be really good sports.
For example i still remember a certain ROA cmdr that had 2000+ kills with no deaths. Eventually that spree was put to a stop by 2 wings of Spear, using wake scanners and chasing our ganker through multiple systems. They could have quit at any time, but nope. Kept trying to escape, eventually eating the rebuy screen. o7 to the said cmdr.
There is a lot of overlap of PvPers that gank but that doesn't mean you get to call us PvPers Gankers! Two different playstyles entirely.. I will die on this hill lol
My hill has a big sign post that reads: I dont like double standards
Imagine a ganker complaining about block feature while at the same time they're blocking Spear members
Not worth it to fight on that hill at all.
Both of you are right, there are gankers that are using every loophole possible, those with double standards, and there are
PvPer who don't gank and behave "nicely". In the end it's depending on the individual.
I ganked a handful of people in the last 4 years, and yet consider myself a PvPer and no ganker.
And for the rest I blame Phisto
Both of you are right, there are gankers that are using every loophole possible, those with double standards, and there are
PvPer who don't gank and behave "nicely". In the end it's depending on the individual.
I ganked a handful of people in the last 4 years, and yet consider myself a PvPer and no ganker.
And for the rest I blame Phisto
Does it speak well or bad about blocking feature? I m not a ganker, i pvp a lot, but block feature given we have modes already is just horrendous game development, it just emphasize frontier is a studio without experiance in mmo'sMy hill has a big sign post that reads: I dont like double standards
Imagine a ganker complaining about block feature while at the same time they're blocking Spear members
I am aware, I have been since their introduction and every time I post a video someone reminds me. Even though I have only once experienced this once (in Horizons, never in Oddyssey) and people use SLF against me A LOT.
But this is not my problem and neither is combat logging, tasking killing, ghosting, unbalanced engineering, healing beams, packhounds vs hulltanks, drag munitions, reverseskies or what the heck else might be in the Salty Codex of Honorable PvP.
^ Those are all developer problems, not player problems. Not gonna take the high road if nearly all my opponents take the low road and the developers are cool with the low road being an option to begin with. None of the PvP I do is arranged or with rules.
Don't like my SLF then just highwake out.
The Lag it creates gets worse the longer the fight goes on. But if you already know then you know.
This
Bigger issue with SLF than lag itself in 1vs1 is that it's very hard to overcome fighter adventage if it's med vs med, 1 big vs 2 it's ok, LAG is totally random, can be sirious issue, but can have almost no impact on fight, but it's good excuse for loser to blame slf lag. I m not using one, but lack of working slf's shellows wing fights a lot
Nothing in that list is synonymous with leveraging, attempting to leverage, or even ignoring, a bug with known technical implications on gameplay. The first few have rules regarding them because they are things the game cannot practicably limit. The rest are subjective balance issues. The SLF problem is a known technical bug that Frontier should have corrected long ago, or failing that, prevented from causing issues by disabling SLFs outside of Solo.
The moment I became aware of the nature of the SLF induced issues, it became irresponsible for me to have my CMDR use them in the presence of other players. This has nothing to do with honorable PvP. I has to do with not interfering with the functionality of another player's client, which is explicitly against the rules.
Anything that's not functioning as intended is a developer problem, but abusing the existence of known defective mechanisms (which is distinct from any subjective imbalance) is a player choice. Ideally, Frontier would patch the holes in their game, but failing that, their intent should be made clear and they should be removing abusers.
Of course, we have neither.
It not nice when someone does that to you, but then its not nice either for the gankee to be ganked.
What makes either of these not nice in anyway that could be conflated with cheating?
It's like saying it's not nice when the opponent's queen murders your rook, but it's also not nice when you king fails to put himself in check on demand. That's the game. Same goes for CMDR vessels being shot down, or recovering half of their shields because they manged to go unmolested for 30 seconds. Cheating, via any means, including exploiting bugs, is not the same.
Now, I think chess is a crappy game and think that half of the mechanisms in ED make for crappy gameplay, but I have no trouble separating them from things like flipping over a chessboard, punching the opposing player in the throat, combat logging, or doing things known to prompt performance issues with the client software running on someone's computer. Even in the absence of explicit guidance from on-high, what is and is not the game should not be hard to figure out.
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Exploit!?
It's been a core features for years.
Pulling off a sneaky reboot/repair to tip a match is a major flex.
Very hard to get away with if the opposition is decent
Toggle silent running, boost away in faster ship, or just low wake if you have ml advantage, not rocket science really, a bit harder with emmisive, if you add laggy connection, difficulty to catch player low wake at a times, it becomes an issue, but most importantly, it reduce build options, with GSR any medium ship can be a bank tank, so to some extent this flatten PVE meta, why bother getting missiel spammed in hybrid when you can take prismos and just reboot after fight instead of risking weapons malfunction forcing you to finish session earlier, when you can just reboot after wave of attackers, it work for more demanding pve scenarios where you cant actively recharge shields, like wing assasiantions or turrets disabling if you stack those. I see no reason for this "feature" to function in game, it's simialr to TC effect on plasmas, dirty drives engineering, charge enhanced distributor mod, i know it's not same, but all those mentioned are just examples of terrible game design and world balancing in general.
It might be simple in pve but getting away with a r/r against a good wing is about a 5% play.
Going silent and boosting away doesnt work against anyone good.
I just thought calling a feature deliberately included by FD an exploit was a bit of a stretch.
Going silent and boosting away doesnt work against anyone good.
I just thought calling a feature deliberately included by FD an exploit was a bit of a stretch.
Depends, how fast is your ship, how many lr hitscan weapons opponents have, also why we have stat like active regen for shield gen, one of negatives coming with prism shields is worse active regen than std c6 SG and higher, reboot/rapair makes prisms even better, so we are in practice force whole playerbase who think about pvp into 4weeks AD power play grind, of course not just for this reason, but why make something already OP even more OP
Maybe it did not have to recover shields to 50%, only repair modules. I imagine if this is done with the bigger ships like a maxed-out Cutter for instance, any fight would take forever. Is this even gameplay at this point?
have you seen an organic fight where a cutter's shields go down? it doesn't live long enough to even jump out usually let alone get a reboot off. The real world is very different to spreadsheets.
Well I did see a Youtube video of a group of players taking out a Cutter's shields with engineered torpedoes, then they Grommed him and finished him.
Regardless, the Cutter was just an example, I get the feeling that anyone could just spam this technique whenever he's about to die.
It really doesn't work like that in practice, usually your opponent if not in a wing is on top of you the whole time, if they are decent they will kill you as you try to reboot, ramming you and hitting you while your shields are down and defenceless, it's very very hard to pull off against anyone good, you'll just get murdered so it's not as OP as you think. what does happen though is some people flee from a fight into supercruise, then drop down and reboot/repair.. it still takes them out of the fight though and is classed as a win by those that made them flee. It's pretty balanced in practice
edit: you also have to be travelling under 50m/s for it to reboot your shields to 50% further meaning that you can't get as far away to do it. It can be done, but it's very rare and almost impossible against a good pilot. The exception is in wing fights but still a wing that is any good will see it coming and kill you off quick if you try.
edit: you also have to be travelling under 50m/s for it to reboot your shields to 50% further meaning that you can't get as far away to do it. It can be done, but it's very rare and almost impossible against a good pilot. The exception is in wing fights but still a wing that is any good will see it coming and kill you off quick if you try.