Yeah, a completion bonus would be good - perhaps a 25% bonus to what you got from the rest of the system?
Exploration Scans
- Thread starter Sandro Sammarco
- Start date
Yeah, a completion bonus would be good - perhaps a 25% bonus to what you got from the rest of the system?
Actually, why stop there?
ADV: 15T
INT: 8T
BAS: 2T
DSS: 4T
For the real explorers who want a better jump range you don't need to fit any of these.
You find the composition of a star (or what type it is) by taking a screen shot of the star, then running it through Photoshop (or any advanced image processing program) to get a colour histogram. Then compare the histogram to a published chart to get the star's composition and type. To find planets in the system you fly around and, as another poster suggested, use your MK1 eyeball to see what moves in the background. You then fly to it, look at the colour of the planet and turn up your audio. The audio pickup will give you some sounds from the planet. You then run the sounds through a spectrum analyser and compare the output to a published chart to get the detailed info. Once you have recorded down all that info, you write it up and send it to FD through the mail, postage paid by the player (email is unacceptable as it breaks with the true explorer game play and is too fast.) FD will then review this mail and update that players galaxy, and system info with what was sent to them (whether the info is correct or not is immaterial.) This way true 18th Century exploration can be somewhat achieved.
Have fun, fly safe. o7
P.S.: I just flew about 205k ls to check out what looked promisingly like an Earth Like World on my way to Sag A*. I've also done multiple Hutton orbital runs cause I thought they were cool (still think they are.)
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That would make me look slightly less OCD for scanning asteroid belt clusters like I do.
In addition to the need to overhaul the classification of the Discovery Scanners-& their functionality-I agree with others who are pushing for substantially increased payouts for exploration, & an overhaul of the payment system
Unexplored systems within the bubble should probably pay out about the same as they currently do, whereas exploration of systems outside the bubble should return much higher rates of pay-just for a primary scan. Secondary and Tertiary scans should yield significantly higher bonuses, as should first discoveries and complete discoveries.
Last of all, missions that make full use of the Discovery Scanner mechanics need to be implemented ASAP-preferably before the end of Season 2.
Unexplored systems within the bubble should probably pay out about the same as they currently do, whereas exploration of systems outside the bubble should return much higher rates of pay-just for a primary scan. Secondary and Tertiary scans should yield significantly higher bonuses, as should first discoveries and complete discoveries.
Last of all, missions that make full use of the Discovery Scanner mechanics need to be implemented ASAP-preferably before the end of Season 2.
Rep+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
@Frontier: on the chance you read this, I think the system map behavior should be set in the options. I was just in a system (within the bubble) where someone had obviously done a system-wide discovery scan, but not checked any of the planets. I just did the detailed scan of all the planets in the first part of the system. I however had a half-map that showed the basic types (rocky/ice world/etc..) and textures, but how when they were never looked at in depth?
You can see my point of view.
Options - so people can decide for themselves.
I haven't read all the thread but since it's "official" I'll throw in my 2c.
The planetary-map-on-honk thing I'm still undecided on. From a fiction perspective I feel it would give too much information too quickly, but I can't help but appreciate what a fantastic QOL feature it was. I'm not a canyon runner, but I do look for closely co-orbiting moons with interesting topography when out exploring, because they make for the best screenshots. Planetary maps would definitely make that easier, but on the other hand the joy of finding that perfect photo opportunity the old fashioned way -- by flying around the moons and choosing a good looking landing site from orbit -- is itself something special that only this game can offer. If map-on-honk is implemented then I'll use it, but I'm not convinced we need it. But then I can only speak for myself; for canyon seekers it could be a QOL deal-breaker especially after they got to play with it in beta. How ya gonna keep 'em down on the farm?
What you absolutely cannot do in my opinion is to remove functionality that's already there, even if what you propose to replace it with makes more fictional sense. Planetary icons for remote scans must stay. Even though many players considered this, too, to be too much easy information when exploration was first introduced, it's been in the game for nearly two years. There are explorers in the game right now who've been out in the black for many months, relying on this mechanic to select interesting or (arguably) valuable worlds to scan. Taking this away from what many already consider to be a relatively unloved career path would be heartless. It would be like saying to some players already out there, who are actively using the icon view, "Thanks for the x months of your time but you might as well sprint home now. Expect nothing but black spheres on your way back."
The system we have now may not be ideal, and in retrospect black spheres may arguably be the way it should have worked since day one. But you can't take the system map icons away now that people are reliant upon them, at least not without adding other features or compensations by way of balance. This isn't the time for discussing what those might be, so close to a version launch, so IMO the icons have to stay for now. Removing them would be too cruel.
On a side-note I am rather curious about the IDS: has anyone actually bought one of these in, say, the last twelve months? I know in the earlier builds it was difficult to make credits so slowly upgrading stuff was sometimes necessary, but since we got to the point where half a dozen reasonable missions could get you the price of an Advanced scanner, I'm wondering if anyone's actually bought an Intermediate? Do FD's servers and/or logs keep records of purchases? I'd love to see official figures if they exist.
The planetary-map-on-honk thing I'm still undecided on. From a fiction perspective I feel it would give too much information too quickly, but I can't help but appreciate what a fantastic QOL feature it was. I'm not a canyon runner, but I do look for closely co-orbiting moons with interesting topography when out exploring, because they make for the best screenshots. Planetary maps would definitely make that easier, but on the other hand the joy of finding that perfect photo opportunity the old fashioned way -- by flying around the moons and choosing a good looking landing site from orbit -- is itself something special that only this game can offer. If map-on-honk is implemented then I'll use it, but I'm not convinced we need it. But then I can only speak for myself; for canyon seekers it could be a QOL deal-breaker especially after they got to play with it in beta. How ya gonna keep 'em down on the farm?
What you absolutely cannot do in my opinion is to remove functionality that's already there, even if what you propose to replace it with makes more fictional sense. Planetary icons for remote scans must stay. Even though many players considered this, too, to be too much easy information when exploration was first introduced, it's been in the game for nearly two years. There are explorers in the game right now who've been out in the black for many months, relying on this mechanic to select interesting or (arguably) valuable worlds to scan. Taking this away from what many already consider to be a relatively unloved career path would be heartless. It would be like saying to some players already out there, who are actively using the icon view, "Thanks for the x months of your time but you might as well sprint home now. Expect nothing but black spheres on your way back."
The system we have now may not be ideal, and in retrospect black spheres may arguably be the way it should have worked since day one. But you can't take the system map icons away now that people are reliant upon them, at least not without adding other features or compensations by way of balance. This isn't the time for discussing what those might be, so close to a version launch, so IMO the icons have to stay for now. Removing them would be too cruel.
On a side-note I am rather curious about the IDS: has anyone actually bought one of these in, say, the last twelve months? I know in the earlier builds it was difficult to make credits so slowly upgrading stuff was sometimes necessary, but since we got to the point where half a dozen reasonable missions could get you the price of an Advanced scanner, I'm wondering if anyone's actually bought an Intermediate? Do FD's servers and/or logs keep records of purchases? I'd love to see official figures if they exist.
I started with an exploration Hauler and I think I did that until I could afford an ADS. I skipped the IDS entirely because paying 1/3 of the ADS for laughable 500ls more range? I think the IDS is more of a sanity test
The ones that buy it failed it xD
A safe bet could be to go with the optional change, aka surface map on honk.
You *can* use that, but you don't have to. No one forces you to, and if you give in to "lazyness" or whatever, then you alone are to blame
Contrary to missing icons where you *have* to visit each single body just to get what has been there since the beginning.
Not unsolvable. The 3 scanner solution in the Obsidian Ant video solves this nicely (4:31). Everyone can win
[video=youtube_share;iGQafi6K7v0]https://youtu.be/iGQafi6K7v0[/video]
dynamicbob
Banned
obi ant has the answer
Hi Sandro.
I probably missed the boat a bit here, 33 pages in, but I think needing to detailed scan for surface map is fine and limiting the ADS to a certain ls range would even be fine but only if exploration was changed to something similar to the wave scanner on the SRV. Then earth like Worlds can be located by their signature (and each body type would have its own).
The signature remains on the scanner until you surface scan it. So with skill, you can pick out what each body is and locate it, even if it's way out of the ADS range. Once you get close enough, it resolves as a body you can target and the wave scanner provided signature you can learn to identify from a distance; a signature that becomes clearer the closer you become.
Then I think rewards should increase based on how far out the body is and a full system scan should multiply the whole system reward significantly.
I probably missed the boat a bit here, 33 pages in, but I think needing to detailed scan for surface map is fine and limiting the ADS to a certain ls range would even be fine but only if exploration was changed to something similar to the wave scanner on the SRV. Then earth like Worlds can be located by their signature (and each body type would have its own).
The signature remains on the scanner until you surface scan it. So with skill, you can pick out what each body is and locate it, even if it's way out of the ADS range. Once you get close enough, it resolves as a body you can target and the wave scanner provided signature you can learn to identify from a distance; a signature that becomes clearer the closer you become.
Then I think rewards should increase based on how far out the body is and a full system scan should multiply the whole system reward significantly.
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So where are we at with this as I'm confused.
How it should be to my mind:
ADS reveals the surface maps, we can after all make pretty good guesses on planetary surface details from hundreds of thousands of miles away today, in a thousand years time i imagine it would have improved a little
DSS reveals composition details, and ideally, any main poi on the planet.
What I don't want: you only get the surface map in the system view after you do a DSS. Why? Well what's the point? I've already been close enough to scan it so I know what it looks like. You're never really going to look at it after you've visited the planet are you? No point adding a cool new thing then making it pointless.
I'm in favour of the general exploring changes mentioned, more profit on distance from sol, new scanner types, etc etc.
I am happy though that the black blobs are gone, i know it was a bug but suggesting we keep them was a backwards step.
How it should be to my mind:
ADS reveals the surface maps, we can after all make pretty good guesses on planetary surface details from hundreds of thousands of miles away today, in a thousand years time i imagine it would have improved a little
DSS reveals composition details, and ideally, any main poi on the planet.
What I don't want: you only get the surface map in the system view after you do a DSS. Why? Well what's the point? I've already been close enough to scan it so I know what it looks like. You're never really going to look at it after you've visited the planet are you? No point adding a cool new thing then making it pointless.
I'm in favour of the general exploring changes mentioned, more profit on distance from sol, new scanner types, etc etc.
I am happy though that the black blobs are gone, i know it was a bug but suggesting we keep them was a backwards step.
dynamicbob
Banned
adding a 4th scan layer , or increase or engineerable range on the detailed surface scanner and lower the time per scan for smaller bodies, longer for larger bodies. or vice versa. And make the advanced disscovery scanner a bit quicker
So where are we at with this as I'm confused.
How it should be to my mind:
ADS reveals the surface maps, we can after all make pretty good guesses on planetary surface details from hundreds of thousands of miles away today, in a thousand years time i imagine it would have improved a little
DSS reveals composition details, and ideally, any main poi on the planet.
What I don't want: you only get the surface map in the system view after you do a DSS. Why? Well what's the point? I've already been close enough to scan it so I know what it looks like. You're never really going to look at it after you've visited the planet are you? No point adding a cool new thing then making it pointless.
I'm in favour of the general exploring changes mentioned, more profit on distance from sol, new scanner types, etc etc.
I am happy though that the black blobs are gone, i know it was a bug but suggesting we keep them was a backwards step.
+1
I completely agree with this.
Not unsolvable. The 3 scanner solution in the Obsidian Ant video solves this nicely (4:31). Everyone can win
https://youtu.be/iGQafi6K7v0
Sorry, I disagree completely...
The discovery scanner machanic as it is currently implemented isn't great but it's usable.
The current proxy of distance as a metric for discoverability is crude and an obvious place holder for something better and if we could go back and replace it I would far prefer a "visibility" metric, such as apparent brightness and angular size. i.e. the basic scanner would pick up the largest and brightest objects (all stars, mid-range large gas giants and close rocky planets), the medium scanner more and the advanced more still (but not all moons unless you're within a couple of thousand light seconds).
This would make the basic scanner more useful. It's more believable and it doesn't break anything.
With regards to surface detail, the "bong" should give you a low resolution image of all the bodies it can discover along with basic atmospheric and structural information, enough to determine if further investigation is worth it. You don't want to make things onerous for those who don't want to spend their time doing detailed work.
Normal (not DSS) scan should give an intermediate resolution image of the surface. The DSS should give full information. More work equals more pay-back, as it should be.
In future I'd like a mapping scanner requiring you to circle the planet or moon to map it properly and give POIs, with different grades providing differing swath widths and maximum altitudes. Also, Kerrash's idea for atmospheric probe drones would be fun too. And each of these could be used to add discovery missions in the mission boards, such as "We have intelligenced that Vespa-M4 Jet Incorporated have set up a listening post somewhere in the Fromage System but we don't know where. Find it and bring back images for a reward."
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I think that a good compromise for the scanner mechanics would be something like this...
1. Basic Discography scanner gets a buff to match the range of the current intermediate but only shows black sphere's like in the current beta. No surface maps or material breakdowns. Also weighs less that it currently does at only a ton or so (this would really help pilots of smaller ships)
2. Intermediate gains infinite range and again only displays black globes. Again no surface maps or material breakdowns.
3. Advanced stays exactly the way it is in the live game, showing full colour planet icons and also revealing surface maps but no material breakdowns.
4. Add a combined surface/discovery scanner like Bomba Luigi suggested which weighs the same as Kill Warrant/Manifest scanners and also making it available in different ratings (the higher the rating the longer the range but also more power draw), for example something along the lines of...
E rated same as the current basic
D rated, say range of 2,500ls and displays planet icons within 1,000ls
C rated, 5,000ls range, displays icons within 2,000ls
B rated, 10,000ls range, displays icons within 5,000ls and system maps within 2,500ls with no material breakdowns
A rated, 20,000ls range, displays icons within 10,000ls and system maps within 5,000ls with no material breakdowns
These could be further enhanced with engineering to give extended range.
I am very much against any sort of scanner which gives surface material composition without having to travel to the body in question. It would take a lot of the discovery out of exploration and just turn it into another way to grind credits.
Hope this makes sense!
1. Basic Discography scanner gets a buff to match the range of the current intermediate but only shows black sphere's like in the current beta. No surface maps or material breakdowns. Also weighs less that it currently does at only a ton or so (this would really help pilots of smaller ships)
2. Intermediate gains infinite range and again only displays black globes. Again no surface maps or material breakdowns.
3. Advanced stays exactly the way it is in the live game, showing full colour planet icons and also revealing surface maps but no material breakdowns.
4. Add a combined surface/discovery scanner like Bomba Luigi suggested which weighs the same as Kill Warrant/Manifest scanners and also making it available in different ratings (the higher the rating the longer the range but also more power draw), for example something along the lines of...
E rated same as the current basic
D rated, say range of 2,500ls and displays planet icons within 1,000ls
C rated, 5,000ls range, displays icons within 2,000ls
B rated, 10,000ls range, displays icons within 5,000ls and system maps within 2,500ls with no material breakdowns
A rated, 20,000ls range, displays icons within 10,000ls and system maps within 5,000ls with no material breakdowns
These could be further enhanced with engineering to give extended range.
I am very much against any sort of scanner which gives surface material composition without having to travel to the body in question. It would take a lot of the discovery out of exploration and just turn it into another way to grind credits.
Hope this makes sense!
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The 2.2 goes live on Tuesday, so not much new is going to happen between now and then. I suspect we have 3 immediate choices
1. Put it back to how it was in the first 2.2 beta(everything visible on ADS, except planetary stats)
2. Change it to a hybrid model (all things visible on ADS, fancy graphics needs a surface scan)
3. Leave it as it is (nothing visible, except outlines unless surface scanned)
1. Put it back to how it was in the first 2.2 beta(everything visible on ADS, except planetary stats)
2. Change it to a hybrid model (all things visible on ADS, fancy graphics needs a surface scan)
3. Leave it as it is (nothing visible, except outlines unless surface scanned)
I registered her only for that topic alone because i think this is one of the most important parts in the game for Exploration in the upcoming release. Please keep in mind my native Language is not English and i have to battle against an aggressive Auto correction from my Operating System.
I have to Strongly oppose the wish of some players to limit the visibility of Detailed Planet Details on the System Map after the Advanced Discovery Scanner Ping. Because it made absolutely no sense at all.
People Argued with „Immersion“ and „Reality“ but exactly that ist he point where they are totally and in any way Wrong!
And here is Why.
Especially considering Reality (as far from an Technological progression standpoint) AND Immersion. The current System in Beta 7 and the Suggested mechanics from the Folks that want The Surface Details on ADS Ping Gone makes absolutely no sense whatsoever.
All what these Folks have achieved, is ruining a Great and logical Feature for the majority of Gamers of this game as pools clearly Shows only because they want to waste more time.
I have to admit, that I ‘am deeply disappointed from FD that they let them influenced by the Folks and literally downgraded a nice Feature that many would have profited from.
For me, I was Mounting an Anaconda for Exploration, I worked month for it. I am suffering from severe Depressions and the ED in general and the Exploration videos from Obsidian Ant where an Inspiration for me to do the same but with the new mapping feature in mind, it always heightens my mind a bit when I felt sad again. It was nice to know that there where beautiful places out there and I wanted to see them. But I simply don’t have the ability to overcome frustrating situations anymore. Not with my Depressions.
But now. I will may never go exploring. I truly Salute the Pioneers who have done it without this feature but I simply don’t want to waste time and suffer from Frustrating moments. This feature was literally the Most important part of the Update besides SLF and now some Folks have ruined it for me. In that point, I want to say Tanks for ruining a part of a game for me, hope you are prod of yourself.
I only can repeat my Self: The ADS Ping and Revealing all (visible) Details of a Stellar Body was Great Feature Logical and Good in any Way. But now it’s just bad and I’m Sad that some people have ruined it for me and most of the other players (as pools have Cleary shown)
Again, English is not my native English and I was horrible in school on it, so please forgive me for spelling and grammar errors.
Fly Save Commanders!
I have to Strongly oppose the wish of some players to limit the visibility of Detailed Planet Details on the System Map after the Advanced Discovery Scanner Ping. Because it made absolutely no sense at all.
People Argued with „Immersion“ and „Reality“ but exactly that ist he point where they are totally and in any way Wrong!
And here is Why.
- Today in the Year 2016 we already have the Technology to obtain a pretty accurate Picture of Surface Details of Stellar Body’s in our own Solar System. We even have the ability to estimate Surfaces of Exoplanets Lys away at least to a certain degree. We don’t need a Detailed Surface Scanner, we only need to observe. Something that was absolutely unthinkable 50 Years in the Past and the Technological progress only accelerates.
- We Talk about Technology that is about 1286 Years Ahead and considering what is possible today it simply makes absolutely no sense at all that an Advanced Scanner Technology would not be able to present pretty detailed Surface Details of Stellar Objects in Range. This is absolutely unthinkable!
- Humanity ALWAYS thrive for technology that make work more effective and les difficult. Even from that Factual point it makes no sense that exploration (A kind of Work in many ways!) should be any near to take more time at it really should be. It is simply not more rewarding to fly hundred thousands LS to a Stellar Body only to discover it’s basically wasted time and effort.
Especially considering Reality (as far from an Technological progression standpoint) AND Immersion. The current System in Beta 7 and the Suggested mechanics from the Folks that want The Surface Details on ADS Ping Gone makes absolutely no sense whatsoever.
All what these Folks have achieved, is ruining a Great and logical Feature for the majority of Gamers of this game as pools clearly Shows only because they want to waste more time.
I have to admit, that I ‘am deeply disappointed from FD that they let them influenced by the Folks and literally downgraded a nice Feature that many would have profited from.
For me, I was Mounting an Anaconda for Exploration, I worked month for it. I am suffering from severe Depressions and the ED in general and the Exploration videos from Obsidian Ant where an Inspiration for me to do the same but with the new mapping feature in mind, it always heightens my mind a bit when I felt sad again. It was nice to know that there where beautiful places out there and I wanted to see them. But I simply don’t have the ability to overcome frustrating situations anymore. Not with my Depressions.
But now. I will may never go exploring. I truly Salute the Pioneers who have done it without this feature but I simply don’t want to waste time and suffer from Frustrating moments. This feature was literally the Most important part of the Update besides SLF and now some Folks have ruined it for me. In that point, I want to say Tanks for ruining a part of a game for me, hope you are prod of yourself.
I only can repeat my Self: The ADS Ping and Revealing all (visible) Details of a Stellar Body was Great Feature Logical and Good in any Way. But now it’s just bad and I’m Sad that some people have ruined it for me and most of the other players (as pools have Cleary shown)
Again, English is not my native English and I was horrible in school on it, so please forgive me for spelling and grammar errors.
Fly Save Commanders!
Just Saying.. but we DO NOT have this technology for accurate images... most images we see that are crystal sharp are "enhanced" Images make by computer creation.... OR Probes images from "very close" shots... like the Saturn one...
Indeed. If I would have a choice it would be 2, though 1 would be acceptable.
There's no time to produce anything more at this point.