Explorers : would you consider giving up on the infinite honk for...?

[Gypsy12]

I propose: The BDS, IDS and ADS, all have Detail drop off points. Example: BDS @ 1000 Ls, IDS @ 6000 Ls and ADS @ 60,000 Ls. After this distance detail is dramatically reduced. Up to twice the rated range, planet colors are visible. At three times the range, they are dark. At longer ranges, only stars or other can be discerned with a rating on surrounding masses.

The point of this is to give a quick scan opportunity for players. And the rating indicates whether to bother or not. There should be a bonus for objects more distant from the arrival star.

Regarding detail within the drop off range, all objects within 1/3 the distance
all planets have a surface map. This is then successively blurred to the drop off point afterwards. A re-honk nearby will be necessary to see the detailed map.

The DDS unit will then deal with all other planetary aspects such at thermal, tectonic, radio and POIs. But not only that, the DDS will also keep track and give indications of volatiles and radioisotope decay within an asteroid field! It won't be as good as a prospector limpet for mineral content, but it will give a general mineral content indication.

Just getting started here... But I'm at work. So more later!

 

[nanite2000]

I propose: The BDS, IDS and ADS, all have Detail drop off points. Example: BDS @ 1000 Ls, IDS @ 6000 Ls and ADS @ 60,000 Ls. After this distance detail is dramatically reduced. Up to twice the rated range, planet colors are visible. At three times the range, they are dark. At longer ranges, only stars or other can be discerned with a rating on surrounding masses.

The point of this is to give a quick scan opportunity for players. And the rating indicates whether to bother or not. There should be a bonus for objects more distant from the arrival star.

Regarding detail within the drop off range, all objects within 1/3 the distance
all planets have a surface map. This is then successively blurred to the drop off point afterwards. A re-honk nearby will be necessary to see the detailed map.

The DDS unit will then deal with all other planetary aspects such at thermal, tectonic, radio and POIs. But not only that, the DDS will also keep track and give indications of volatiles and radioisotope decay within an asteroid field! It won't be as good as a prospector limpet for mineral content, but it will give a general mineral content indication.

Just getting started here... But I'm at work. So more later!

OK, thank you.

 

[Mengy]

REMOVE THE TEXT SIZE AND COLOUR OPTIONS

That is all.

If only HMC and MR planets had this much color!!!!

 

[Deleted member 110222]

I wouldn't mind exploration missions.

Something like this:

You see a mission on the board, asking for you to discover a specific thing. For example, a water world 600ls from a white-yellow star, with a gravity of around 1.00, give or take 0.10g.

The mission could even request a specific sector, and naturally, the time limit, if there is one, should be huge. 2-3 months?

Perhaps a satellite would need to be carried. Whilst some people might think this would require cargo, I propose an alternative option. Make a new "weapon" that launches and carries the satellite. Perhaps similar ammo' count to torpedoes? One for small, two for medium... Making a satellite deployment system a "weapon" would not only solve the cargo question on smaller ships, especially the DBX, but also add purpose to hardpoints for exploration vessels.

These missions would likely need an overhaul to mapping mechanics, but that's something I have no clue on.

 

[lenna]

I wouldn't mind exploration missions.

We already have some exploration related missions - scanning a surface based transmitter, locating a base/ship, some of the salvage missions fall into exploration category, as do at least two varieties of Passenger missions (tour missions and collect data missions).

I can see there being new exploration missions along other lines in the future but I would not even try to guess the form they would take. A lot may depend on what additional mechanics and refinements to mechanics are included in the 2.4 series of patches. We know at least some of the changes are going to be related directly to the Thargoids (or Oserians/Klaxians) but the scope of the planned changes are unknown as yet.

 

[Godsailsaqueen]

I wouldn't mind exploration missions.

Something like this:

You see a mission on the board, asking for you to discover a specific thing. For example, a water world 600ls from a white-yellow star, with a gravity of around 1.00, give or take 0.10g.

The mission could even request a specific sector, and naturally, the time limit, if there is one, should be huge. 2-3 months?

Perhaps a satellite would need to be carried. Whilst some people might think this would require cargo, I propose an alternative option. Make a new "weapon" that launches and carries the satellite. Perhaps similar ammo' count to torpedoes? One for small, two for medium... Making a satellite deployment system a "weapon" would not only solve the cargo question on smaller ships, especially the DBX, but also add purpose to hardpoints for exploration vessels.

These missions would likely need an overhaul to mapping mechanics, but that's something I have no clue on.

pretty cool.

 

[Gypsy12]

OK, thank you.

Ok ok... Ill stop getting drunk and lay off Sandy with the big red bolded text. Happy?

 

[Phoenix_Dfire]

I wouldn't mind exploration missions.

Something like this:

You see a mission on the board, asking for you to discover a specific thing. For example, a water world 600ls from a white-yellow star, with a gravity of around 1.00, give or take 0.10g.

The mission could even request a specific sector, and naturally, the time limit, if there is one, should be huge. 2-3 months?

Perhaps a satellite would need to be carried. Whilst some people might think this would require cargo, I propose an alternative option. Make a new "weapon" that launches and carries the satellite. Perhaps similar ammo' count to torpedoes? One for small, two for medium... Making a satellite deployment system a "weapon" would not only solve the cargo question on smaller ships, especially the DBX, but also add purpose to hardpoints for exploration vessels.

These missions would likely need an overhaul to mapping mechanics, but that's something I have no clue on.

The only problem is, the Elite Dangerous client doesn't know what's there. Frontier Doesn't know what's out there! ;-)

That's the thing about procedural generation, it doesn't have a back end database for the mission creator to inquire where you could find that particular star type with that planet type in that sector. You would probably have to recreate a particular part of the galaxy in memory and then interrogate it to see if the supplied procedural generated seed has led to the right system make up being generated.

Of course there are PG experts who frequent this form who could tell me how wrong I am with that. ;-)

 

[Deleted member 110222]

The only problem is, the Elite Dangerous client doesn't know what's there. Frontier Doesn't know what's out there! ;-)

That's the thing about procedural generation, it doesn't have a back end database for the mission creator to inquire where you could find that particular star type with that planet type in that sector. You would probably have to recreate a particular part of the galaxy in memory and then interrogate it to see if the supplied procedural generated seed has led to the right system make up being generated.

Of course there are PG experts who frequent this form who could tell me how wrong I am with that. ;-)

Not all exploration missions are successful.

 

[Phoenix_Dfire]

Not all exploration missions are successful.

True.

Perhaps something like scan these five systems and then you get a mission 'Wrinkle' saying that if you find a certain type of phenomena. you get a bonus?

 

[lenna]

You would probably have to recreate a particular part of the galaxy in memory and then interrogate it to see if the supplied procedural generated seed has led to the right system make up being generated.

Depends on the algorithms used, it is entirely possible (depending on how things are done) for the mission generator to employ a subset of the algorithms. In effect, procedurally generate at least some missions that map to the universe.

There are no hard and fast rules where such things are concerned, and we do not know exactly how much of the universe is procedurally generated nor the precise nature of the algorithms used. We do know FD can adjust the model to make amendments for changes in the accepted scientific understanding of our galaxy thus the possibility to generate a mission for finding a particular type of body in a particular region is probably feasible. I think it is more likely that such missions would be at least loosely based on logic comparable to the current exploration passenger missions (i.e. FD would probably tag the potential mission target bodies somehow rather than have them completely selected at random).

 

[[Diplomacy] Carnegie]

Not all exploration missions are successful.

Can you imagine the forum meltdown if you give people missions they can't complete?

Talk about 'mining salt'.

 

[Gypsy12]

Full idea:

I propose: The BDS, IDS and ADS, all have Detail drop off points. Example:

BDS @ 1000 Ls,
IDS @ 6000 Ls
And ADS @ 60,000 Ls.

After this distance detail is dramatically reduced. Up to twice the rated range, planet colours are visible. At three times the range, they are dark.

At longer distances, only stars or other massive objects can be discerned. Perhaps a graph of some kind could indicate the rough amount of objects surrounding the companion star in the system map until they are scanned within range.

The point of this is to give a quick scan opportunity for players. And the graph analysis indicates whether to bother or not. There should be a bonus for objects more distant to the arrival star.

---------------------------------------------

Regarding detail within the drop off range, planets have a surface map.

This is then successively blurred towards the drop off point. A re-honk nearby will be necessary to clarify the local surface maps. By using a very simple blurring technique, players still have the ability to see if something is interesting or not.

I find this might strike a balance with those who complained about having to time consumingly DDS scan each Planet for a surface map, - those who wanted full surface map coverage of the entire system - and those who wanted everything blacked out.

It should be easy to implement, and as long as covering the extra distance is rewarded financially, it should add gameplay to the very basic idea of the honk itself.

(Side note: As the system works at the moment, with a ADS we can see all the planets surface maps from long range. This is very simplistic and somewhat defeats the purpose of scanning with the DDS. If this idea is kept it would, be nice at minimum to have them be accurate, as often they are not. But we don't want that do we? We are here for bigger fish!)

----------------------------------------------

Once a full system scan is complete, the player should then be rewarded for that. In real life...halfway doesn't mean too much. The intrinsic value of scanning a complete system should take precedence here. We are looking for a somewhat realistic simulation of life here...life in the future. Think of... the Weyland-Yutani corporation from Aliens. (was that the name?) Anyhow: What possible value is scanning a single rock in a system going to do for them? They require - if they should choose to colonize it, every last detail of every last rock in the system, so they can plan accordingly with such a massive and dangerous venture.

Normally, one would obviously say systems next to the bubble would have extreme value. However, you could pass that off as already having been done secretively by the big corporations amongst themselves. However... by the likes of Colonia? Big money indeed. And big incentive...

The aim here is to industrialize exploration, slow down somewhat the exploration of the Galaxy (Which should be in FDEVs favour so they have time to fiddle and create more content) - and produce professional explorers.

And you are all probably going to hate me for saying this! What use is it to sell exploration data to a lonely, disadvantaged outpost in the middle of nowhere? Im talking about the long rangers here. The guys who spend months out in the black. No outpost in its right mind would want to buy details of stellar systems from the other side of the Galaxy. This data... realistically should be only able to be sold with the core systems. The longer the range, the greater the bonus. When explorers sell this data to lonely stations, their bonuses should be forfeited, unless it is a government base way out in the black.

You could even perhaps add a 20% reduction to any craft purchased by that player within a timeframe by that goverment. Give them some fame!

----------------------------------------------

I have so much more to say, but for this evening, ill leave it alone. Im tired. I hope I contributed! All the best,

Gyp.

 

[lenna]

I propose: The BDS, IDS and ADS, all have Detail drop off points. Example:

BDS @ 1000 Ls,
IDS @ 6000 Ls
And ADS @ 60,000 Ls.

I see no reason to have detail drop-off at all... that is just a time sink change and adds no depth, just aggravates any perceived grind.

I wish people in general would stop trying to fix something that is not broken.

 

[madbilly]

I see no reason to have detail drop-off at all... that is just a time sink change and adds no depth, just aggravates any perceived grind.

I wish people in general would stop trying to fix something that is not broken.

I agree, less is not more in this case. What we need is more new things to do, not more of the same to achieve what we can already do in less steps.

 

[Deleted member 110222]

Can you imagine the forum meltdown if you give people missions they can't complete?

Talk about 'mining salt'.

I know, it's a pipe dream. Will never happen.

They'll have a meltdown, despite the millions they'll earn from scanning everything on the way.

Shame, because these kind of missions are exactly what would make me turn my Cobra into an exploration vessel.

 

[mossfoot]

I see no reason to have detail drop-off at all... that is just a time sink change and adds no depth, just aggravates any perceived grind.

I wish people in general would stop trying to fix something that is not broken.

Having ranges of 500, 1000, and infinite IS broken. That's like having speeds of 100, 500, and instant teleportation regardless of distance.

 

[madbilly]

Having ranges of 500, 1000, and infinite IS broken. That's like having speeds of 100, 500, and instant teleportation regardless of distance.

So is the non-Newtonian flight model, fsd, shields... I think I'll stop because it's clearly OT.

This thread is repeating now. I think there's loads of good ideas in here, some excellent ones too. I hope FDev have even better ones!

 

[CrazedHatter]

For my 2 cents on this matter. I think the infinite honk should stay, but the results should be changed a bit. Rather than being able to see the precise location of every body. The honk should reveal the number and orbit of bodies in the system, and a secondary scanner analogous to the SRV scanner which reads things like gravitational distortions and coarse metallic/mineral makeup then allows us to scout the orbits to find the precise location of the planets. And that scanner would be able to give us a bit of extra information to decide if the planet is worth detailed scanning in the first place - for instance a high water content being picked up somehow might make us think Water/Earth-like, which most of us would consider worth the extra effort. It is an imperfect concept to be sure, but it feels more like what exploration should be IMHO.

 

[lenna]

For my 2 cents on this matter. I think the infinite honk should stay, but the results should be changed a bit. Rather than being able to see the precise location of every body. The honk should reveal the number and orbit of bodies in the system, and a secondary scanner analogous to the SRV scanner which reads things like gravitational distortions and coarse metallic/mineral makeup then allows us to scout the orbits to find the precise location of the planets. And that scanner would be able to give us a bit of extra information to decide if the planet is worth detailed scanning in the first place - for instance a high water content being picked up somehow might make us think Water/Earth-like, which most of us would consider worth the extra effort. It is an imperfect concept to be sure, but it feels more like what exploration should be IMHO.

I do not believe the Honk system should be changed at all...

What many people have asked for is more depth not more grind... changing the current honk system would not achieve that, even in the manner you have proposed.

Additions such as sub-surface geological surveys, seismic surveys, radiation surveys, lifeform surveys, weather surveys and the like could be added via orbital scans and perhaps would require different types of scan for different features (including requiring specialist SRV excursions perhaps). I can even see a potential for scientific SLFs that may work like re-usable probes (for certain types of orbital scans).

There are many ways the current system could be enhanced without adding more grind. Any solution that reduces the level of information returned by the Honk would be doing exactly that - adding grind, not depth.