Explorers : would you consider giving up on the infinite honk for...?

[Ziljan]

If all you do is ADS then exploration would be boring but it is only the first step in the process... this step has wider implications outside of pure exploration so should be left as is. Those heavily focused on messing with the DS mechanics seem to be ignoring the wider implications of such a change.

The surface scans, which are exploration centric, do currently depend on visibility and range - this is the area which should be built on and refined.

The ADS isn't a "step" though. It's just a big toy button to allow perfunctory player participation points. If it passively honked itself, the gameplay contribution would be the same.

But here's a crazy idea: why don't we wait until Frontier showcases the mechanic before we complain about it? I have a feeling that the eye candy alone will be worth the wait. But don't worry too much if you don't immediately love everything about it. I mean if they can change it once, then they can change it twice, and something tells me that Frontier enjoys having all of it's player base as happy as possible.

 

[stephen_usher]

If all you do is ADS then exploration would be boring but it is only the first step in the process... this step has wider implications outside of pure exploration so should be left (mostly) as is (some rebalancing of the BDS and IDS may be not unwarranted). Those heavily focused on messing with the DS mechanics seem to be ignoring the wider implications of such a change.

The surface scans, which are exploration centric, do currently depend on visibility and range - this is the area which should be built on and refined.

But I would argue that the "casual" explorers, those who "jump, honk and scoop" don't bother with bodies which are beyond a couple of hundred light seconds anyway. This is from the number of systems even close to the bubble with stars and planets only a few hundred light seconds out which haven't been "discovered". So maybe it's best to hint at riches for the concerted explorer and let them gain pleasure from the mystery and investigation rather than giving everything on the plate?

P.S. To make an analogy, if a strip-tease involved the person walking onto the stage already naked, dumped his/her clothes on your lap and then walked off again you'd probably not bother coming back again.

 

[Obsidian Ant]

The ADS has wider utility outside of exploration, the affects of "nerfing" it would also not benefit exploration AT ALL IMO.

Could you detail some of these wider utilities, what can the ADS be used for outside of discovering planets?

 

[MadDogMurdock]

Could you detail some of these wider utilities, what can the ADS be used for outside of discovering planets?

That might be referring to the perfunctory step in some missions where a honk will identify which body your mission target is around.
The alternative being, visit the Nav. Beacon.

While it was necessary to add breadcrumbs to mission, adding a honk didn't really add anything and wouldn't be missed.

 

[Obsidian Ant]

That might be referring to the perfunctory step in some missions where a honk will identify which body your mission target is around.
The alternative being, visit the Nav. Beacon.

While it was necessary to add breadcrumbs to mission, adding a honk didn't really add anything and wouldn't be missed.

If so, there really isn't any reason at all that Frontier cannot still include a "honk" for this function. And heck, they might even add something better, to improve the entire process.

 

[Ziljan]

Could you detail some of these wider utilities, what can the ADS be used for outside of discovering planets?

Honking alien stuff to spark an EMP? Locating missions? Making cool background noises for YouTube videos? Idk, but certainly any revamped and sophisticated scan mechanics would be head and shoulders above the ADS's "wider utility".

 

[mojonaut]

But here's a crazy idea: why don't we wait until Frontier showcases the mechanic before we complain about it?

That hasn't worked too well in the past, if we wait and it's a mess what then? another 6 months to a year before they get around to fixing it?

Surely better to have some discussion beforehand so they can get a feel of what players would like to see changed or remain the same.

 

[Ziljan]

That hasn't worked too well in the past, if we wait and it's a mess what then? another 6 months to a year before they get around to fixing it?

Surely better to have some discussion beforehand so they can get a feel of what players would like to see changed or remain the same.

Know your history. When it comes to Exploration, the danger isn't that Frontier will do something that will have to be amended later. The real danger is that a handful of people will hold up any progress by stonewalling any kind of change to the existing mechanic until Frontier once again just throws up their hands and walks away like they have in the past.

So perhaps rather than saying what you "don't like" about something you haven't even seen yet, maybe it would be better (and more useful to the devs) to suggest exploration changes or additions that you would like to see.

For example:

Instead of saying, "I like the ADS the way it is!" Say specifically what it is that you like about it. Eg. the ease of use, the quickness of the scan, the way it saves time spent in super cruise, the easy money from honk-jumping while buckeyballing, the sound, the instant knowledge of the System Map, etc.

That way if/when Frontier creates a new mechanic, they can take these specific things into account so that the end result can be different, and yet still give you the same feelings and conveniences that you currently enjoy

But I'll tell you this right now, the Community has already spoken and pontificated and opined ad nauseam on this topic, so I will all but guarantee you that Frontier is painfully aware of what the major issues and sticking points are.

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

Know your history. When it comes to Exploration, the danger isn't that Frontier will do something that will have to be amended later. The real danger is that a handful of people will hold up any progress by stonewalling any kind of change to the existing mechanic until Frontier once again just throws up their hands and walks away like they have in the past.

When did Frontier propose any progress that was stonewalled by a handful of people and walked away and what feature did they propose?

 

[verminstar]

Well Sandro has spoken so lets just wait and see if they can do more that talk the talk...Im happier waiting now to see if they can walk the walk. Im not overly optimistic if truth be told which is why Im avoiding these circular pointless debates...more or less. My only real enthusiasm is in when they intend fixing what they already broke before possibly adding new stuff...although at this point of years of disappointment and being ignored, I just see it as forum chat to keep everyone talking about something.

Which is the sugar coated way of saying Ill believe it when I see it...my hypometer was nerfed months ago...11 months ago to be exact ^

 

[dreamer1986]

Hello Commanders!

For what it's worth, I personally wouldn't mind removing the infinite honk, just as I'd like to see the removal of the basic stellar scan that forces you to fly close to get any data. I would like to see processes that were a little more involved (and cool looking/feeling) with regards to Commanders actually having to do something, whilst minimising uncessessary super cruise travel time. But this is just me musing. Like the karma system, exploration (and extraction) is something that we'll hopefully be getting into in some more depth in the forums.

Awesome news! For me exploration is torture, I hope with the changes it will finally become fun.

 

[mojonaut]

Know your history. When it comes to Exploration, the danger isn't that Frontier will do something that will have to be amended later.

LOL

Clearly you haven't been paying attention to exploration what with the "Beigeing" and "Dark Side" issues that have been doing the rounds for weeks.

 

[Ziljan]

When did Frontier propose any progress that was stonewalled by a handful of people and walked away and what feature did they propose?

This thread is the first time that Frontier has proposed a scan mechanic revamp. So this time around, it's fundamentally different. If the devs have an idea, it's less likely to be a small yet controversial tweak. And more likely to be a comprehensive overhaul with a cool demo video that will have people oohhing and ahhhhing.

So I have a sliver of hope that this time something real could materialize

 

[Ziljan]

LOL

Clearly you haven't been paying attention to exploration what with the "Beigeing" and "Dark Side" issues that have been doing the rounds for weeks.

Weeks? I've been a stalwart forum advocate for exploration issues for years. Dark side of the planet... Try going to the dark side of the Galaxy if you want to really understand that issue.

 

[lenna]

The ADS isn't a "step" though. It's just a big toy button to allow perfunctory player participation points. If it passively honked itself, the gameplay contribution would be the same.

It is a step, and one that is restricted by the class of kit you have installed (BDS/IDS/ADS) just because there are some like yourself that are bored with exploration in general does not change that.

But here's a crazy idea: why don't we wait until Frontier showcases the mechanic before we complain about it? I have a feeling that the eye candy alone will be worth the wait. But don't worry too much if you don't immediately love everything about it. I mean if they can change it once, then they can change it twice, and something tells me that Frontier enjoys having all of it's player base as happy as possible.

I disagree with the stance that the proposed changes add any form of verisimilitude where general body detection is concerned.

The current "honk" system is not overly powerful in the information it reveals and that information is essentially basic navigational data. It has enough basis in current technology - e.g. active sonar, active radar, automated processing to uncover information that is otherwise obscured. The level of information is probably slightly above that you would expect from (a space based analog of) an India band radar system and not disproportionate given the expected level of evolution in technology over 1000+ years.

Where surface scans are concerned, that is another matter entirely as I have explained several times already in this very thread that I believe this (plus orbital scanning and surface exploration) should be the areas that FD focus on evolving.

 

[Obsidian Ant]

It is a step, and one that is restricted by the class of kit you have installed (BDS/IDS/ADS) just because there are some like yourself that are bored with exploration in general does not change that.


I disagree with the stance that the proposed changes add any form of verisimilitude where general body detection is concerned.

The current "honk" system is not overly powerful in the information it reveals and that information is essentially basic navigational data. It has enough basis in current technology - e.g. active sonar, active radar, automated processing to uncover information that is otherwise obscured. The level of information is probably slightly above that you would expect from an India band radar system and not disproportionate given the expected level of evolution in technology over 1000+ years.

Where surface scans are concerned, that is another matter entirely as I have explained several times already in this very thread that I believe this (plus orbital scanning and surface exploration) should be the areas that FD focus on evolving.

I suspect those are exactly the areas Frontier plan on evolving, and from reading Sandro's comment, the intent will be to make it a layered activity. I doubt they will make the current full system discovery (at the current level of detail) any more difficult or involved than it currently is. It's more likely, that the current planetary discovery method will stay the same - or at worst be a variation on the same thing. The hints on changes to exploration appear to be about going beyond the current layers of data and information that can be discovered and offering something deeper, without actually replacing the layers we currently have.

What remains to be seen is how this is implemented.

 

[Zulu Romeo]

SRV and SLF exploration would be awesome too. Ultra-detailed surface scanning.

In fact, just having seamless integration with SRVs, SLFs, NPC crew and Multicrew would be good enough a start. Alas, I know, the code is going to be a nightmare to reconcile...

 

[verminstar]

This thread is the first time that Frontier has proposed a scan mechanic revamp. So this time around, it's fundamentally different. If the devs have an idea, it's less likely to be a small yet controversial tweak. And more likely to be a comprehensive overhaul with a cool demo video that will have people oohhing and ahhhhing.

So I have a sliver of hope that this time something real could materialize

One has learned the hard way not to have much hope...at this point, a sliver really is all that's left to give. Sure as hell not gonna put money on it that's fer sure. What will he will be but I'm fairly sure anything exploration based is all just talk with these thargoid things being the apple of their eye in the here and now. Gonna take a lot more than one or two comments to make me less skeptical I'm afraid ^

 

[Zeeman]

If we could see the system map data in the cockpit, I would do a dance of joy.

Right now, I have EDDiscovery tell me all the results via voice, but, seriously... Having the data appear on the info pane (because, you know, info and all...), whilst scanning a planet, perhaps have the details pop up progressively as we scan would be just wonderful.

I swear, the smallest QOL improvements have been the biggest game improvements overall. 1000LY plotting, for example...

Z...

 

[Zeeman]

SRV and SLF exploration would be awesome too. Ultra-detailed surface scanning.

In fact, just having seamless integration with SRVs, SLFs, NPC crew and Multicrew would be good enough a start. Alas, I know, the code is going to be a nightmare to reconcile...

Let me dismiss my ship when in an SLF, for heaven's sake! No longer being tethered to an Anaconda being flown by Teh Random™ NPC whilst I'm blasting through canyons would be nice. Make the mothership auto-recall in combat if they must, but having to have the mothership sit around for no reason defeats the purpose of a small, fast and deployable ship for exploration.

Z...