Explorers : would you consider giving up on the infinite honk for...?

Hello Commanders!

For what it's worth, I personally wouldn't mind removing the infinite honk, just as I'd like to see the removal of the basic stellar scan that forces you to fly close to get any data. I would like to see processes that were a little more involved (and cool looking/feeling) with regards to Commanders actually having to do something, whilst minimising uncessessary super cruise travel time. But this is just me musing. Like the karma system, exploration (and extraction) is something that we'll hopefully be getting into in some more depth in the forums.
Thanks for steeping by Sandro, It's really appreciated. Let's hope the whole thing is not turned into a war between opposite sides. As we can see in this thread, there are really cool ways to add to things without turning off what's important to some, I realize. Alternative is the word.

thanks again.
 
Hello Commanders!

For what it's worth, I personally wouldn't mind removing the infinite honk, just as I'd like to see the removal of the basic stellar scan that forces you to fly close to get any data. I would like to see processes that were a little more involved (and cool looking/feeling) with regards to Commanders actually having to do something, whilst minimising uncessessary super cruise travel time. But this is just me musing. Like the karma system, exploration (and extraction) is something that we'll hopefully be getting into in some more depth in the forums.
You could always implement the in-system jumping between stars and planetary bodies (as was laid out in the DDF). :D
 
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Good to know Sandro. I'll welcome a solution that has some sort of interaction offered beyond holding down fire button for the honk.
 
Hello Commanders!

For what it's worth, I personally wouldn't mind removing the infinite honk, just as I'd like to see the removal of the basic stellar scan that forces you to fly close to get any data. I would like to see processes that were a little more involved (and cool looking/feeling) with regards to Commanders actually having to do something, whilst minimising uncessessary super cruise travel time. But this is just me musing. Like the karma system, exploration (and extraction) is something that we'll hopefully be getting into in some more depth in the forums.
This sounds awesome Sandro and has me really excited for the coming "season"! A big revamp of the scan and exploration mechanic is something that I've been waiting and hoping for, for a long time. Imo the infinite range isn't the issue though, it's the instant 1 button press and point and wait mechanics. As you say, this makes exploration just too passive. Today's (2017) telescopes don't really have a range limit, and are only limited by time and the observable edge of the universe, so having a max range on sensors doesn't make a lot of technical sense. What might make more sense would be some kind of involved readout with wavelength dials (IR, visible, Xray, etc) that we could cycle through, and other focus inputs, that also had better resolution and more accurate info the closer you got to the object. Distant objects might take longer to resolve and give less detailed info. Maybe the DSS could involve some kind of spectrometer that we could see a general heat map where certain types of elements/minerals/structures would be more likely to be found?

I am sure lots of people have ideas on how to improve it, and I look very much forward to that conversation, because the current mechanic needs more heart as well as more brains involved! :)
 
Hello Commanders!

For what it's worth, I personally wouldn't mind removing the infinite honk, just as I'd like to see the removal of the basic stellar scan that forces you to fly close to get any data. I would like to see processes that were a little more involved (and cool looking/feeling) with regards to Commanders actually having to do something, whilst minimising uncessessary super cruise travel time. But this is just me musing. Like the karma system, exploration (and extraction) is something that we'll hopefully be getting into in some more depth in the forums.
Yes! I would love to see some improvements for exploration.
 
so when you are making a long trip somewhere. one of the reasons I don't go mad is because I know ill get some cash at the end of it from using the discovery scanner while my fsd is charging, if you make it so you have to spend ages on one system, that is tedious, maybe get some extra credits if you properly scan each individual planet or something but don't get rid of what's there
Maybe if there has to be an exchange for new goodies they could keep the infinite honk, but give it a scan angle, say ninety degrees, so you'd have to orientate yourself correctly and run four scans to get everything.

I quite like the idea of launching probes onto planetary surfaces/atmospheres for scanning surface composition, etc, but wouldn't be interested in carrying limited numbers of probes so I guess that's a non-starter.
 
Maybe if there has to be an exchange for new goodies they could keep the infinite honk, but give it a scan angle, say ninety degrees, so you'd have to orientate yourself correctly and run four scans to get everything.

I quite like the idea of launching probes onto planetary surfaces/atmospheres for scanning surface composition, etc, but wouldn't be interested in carrying limited numbers of probes so I guess that's a non-starter.
make it an ammo type such as heat sink, and synthetize it with really basic elements. You're good to go.
On the angle idea though, it would seem like 3 more scans would not feel compelling for most of the CMDRs here. You'd have to invent something rather than multiplying identical things.
 
Ok everyone, could I ask you to be more specific on the reasons of no, if possible? Just to know what you guys like in exploration.
There's a certain zen calm to the rhythm of jump, honk, scan. I can do it for literally hours.

Back when I started, I couldn't afford an advanced discovery scanner, so I used an intermediate scanner.
This was back when zooming above the ecliptic and looking for stars/planets by parallax was actually a thing (for a few short months after launch). It wasted time, and was heavy strain on the eyes.
Infinite range honk is a boon compared to those painful early days.

[Edit] I would however like something interactive for planetary scanning, like this concept...
[video=youtube;cw9nBfvGWMg]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cw9nBfvGWMg[/video]
 
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I actually like the existing mechanics. The game play is simplistic for sure, but I enjoy making the decision on whether to scan all the bodies in the a system, or just cherry-pick the valuable ones, whether to fly that 600kLs to scan a brown dwarf for completeness sake.

I also don't see how launching probes is better than SCing to a body to scan it with the ship - it's passive waiting for results to come back, rather than being active.
Maybe I'm missing something.

Anyway, my vote is for leaving things as they are.
 
Yeah, I'd give up the unlimited range in a heartbeat.

I don't remember if it was beta or right after launch, but one of the best times I had playing as an "explorer" was when I learned about the tick to place cursors using the galaxy map and then try to find them SCing in the system. It was the only reliable way (which I had knowledge of, at that time) to fully map tertiary systems. Don't know if that works anymore with all the changes which have hit the galmap since then, but who cares, since you can practically afford a ADS 30mins into a new char with today's game economy.

Back then, the feeling of exploration using this method was given simply by the fact that you were heading into the unknown. You knew that something was there but there was still a chance that you could miss it. You just had a heading and you were taking a leap of faith.

I would not mind for body payouts to be increased substantially if the unlimited range is removed. I'd rather play with the game world than play with a mission list to make good money.
 
I could envision a system where by a CMDR launches a set of probes to augment the current honk. These probes would make their way to planets/moon/asteroids to take science measurements. Some could send the data back (including images), some could take more exquisite data and bring it back (think long distance limpets), whiles others may go to the surfaces to map and search for "anomalies" and either send back or return with data. You could create a huge variation of probes and instrumentation to get various kinds of science from many types of locations. The CMDR would be able to decide return on investment for spending time and resources to mount a science campaign.

Different discoveries could be sold to varies entities, academic, mining interest, military/govts, or Random Engineer VIP.
 
I actually like the existing mechanics. The game play is simplistic for sure, but I enjoy making the decision on whether to scan all the bodies in the a system, or just cherry-pick the valuable ones, whether to fly that 600kLs to scan a brown dwarf for completeness sake.

I also don't see how launching probes is better than SCing to a body to scan it with the ship - it's passive waiting for results to come back, rather than being active.
Maybe I'm missing something.

Anyway, my vote is for leaving things as they are.
For probing, you could physically / SC scan one way, and probe in another direction. That way you would even gain some time, scanning two things at the same time - while still having a new mechanic to enjoy (or not). Win-win scenario
 
Yeah, I'd give up the unlimited range in a heartbeat.

I don't remember if it was beta or right after launch, but one of the best times I had playing as an "explorer" was when I learned about the tick to place cursors using the galaxy map and then try to find them SCing in the system. It was the only reliable way (which I had knowledge of, at that time) to fully map tertiary systems. Don't know if that works anymore with all the changes which have hit the galmap since then, but who cares, since you can practically afford a ADS 30mins into a new char with today's game economy.

Back then, the feeling of exploration using this method was given simply by the fact that you were heading into the unknown. You knew that something was there but there was still a chance that you could miss it. You just had a heading and you were taking a leap of faith.

I would not mind for body payouts to be increased substantially if the unlimited range is removed. I'd rather play with the game world than play with a mission list to make good money.
My thoughts exactly. One would say you can still achieve it now by just downgrading your discovery scanner - but there's nothing and no gameplay to compensate the losses, an artificial handicap, which seems to be the main problem with the whole thread for many people.
 
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I would like to be able to put the ship into auto orbit of a planet where you can then scan its surface in about 5-10 minutes and the results would highlight material locations, settlements, poi's etc.
 
So basically people ask for adding more grind to the game? Why? How about adding some fun instead?

Not so much more grind, as just to make it more interesting or meaningful.

At the moment, its the least valuable, easiest Elite to get. Impatient players use it as a (now) pretty fast, risk free route to an elite badge, with access to outfitting at Jamesons Memorial, a discount on ship and mod prices, and enough starter cash to get them going on whatever their actual career path of choice is.

It's one of the few game play areas where the few changes that have been made have largely just made it a faster, easier process to complete, and thats coming from a pilot who suffered from coming home a couple of mil short on his first Sag A* run, only to find that the next update (1.1 or 1.2??) moved the goal posts by almost 100mil.

At every change, explorers have seen the value of their efforts diminished - hard travel made easier with a 10 fold increase in route plotting, neutron highways, etc, financial rewards improved with various bonus's and tweaks, Passenger missions pumping more money in to the exploration economy, etc.

All so we can reach a point where exploration itself has evolved into "Neutron Farming" and now into "Going to the right website to find the fastest route to scanning enough things to get you the rank you want"

Since before day 1, explorers have asked to have more to do that just jump, honk, scoop and jump, and whilst the other changes have been awesome, this core issue hasnt really been addressed. With 400 billion systems out there to explore, there still remains nothing else to do?

One of the biggest hurdles identified since that time has been the ADS. When you grant players the power to do one job perfectly, everytime, for an entire system, you inevitably destroy the ability for those same players to do anything else, because there is no need for anything else. All the other gameplay possibilities that could have come about from players not being able to see everything with one parp of the fog horn are squeezed out and become irrelevant.

Whilst the ADS remains, a lot of potential is lost. Whilst it exists, "enhancements" to exploration style play only serve to further devalue the profession, and people will keep using it, because its easy and because very few of us really want to go back to trying to explore without the magical honking "I win" button.

Removing the ADS might make the process of exploring tougher, but if we were to bring the other professions into line, its presence is no different to having a "Fed Ex" module that delivers all your cargo for you automatically, saving you the hassle of ever undocking, or some kind of superweapon that automatically destroys any nearby vessel, and I can only imagine how the core traders and fighter pilots would feel about the implementation of such things in their own arena.
 
Hello Commanders!

For what it's worth, I personally wouldn't mind removing the infinite honk, just as I'd like to see the removal of the basic stellar scan that forces you to fly close to get any data. I would like to see processes that were a little more involved (and cool looking/feeling) with regards to Commanders actually having to do something, whilst minimising uncessessary super cruise travel time. But this is just me musing. Like the karma system, exploration (and extraction) is something that we'll hopefully be getting into in some more depth in the forums.

Sandro, thanks for posting in an exploration thread!!!!


I don't think the infinite honk is the problem, but rather maybe the honk provides too much information as it currenlty is? I do agree with you that exploration needs more interaction and involvement. I also agree with you that currenlty exploration is too much of a time burglar, a lot of that has to do with the need to fly up close to everything to scan it, and then wait for the scan wheel to spin as well.


Ok everyone, could I ask you to be more specific on the reasons of no, if possible? Just to know what you guys like in exploration.

What I would like to see in exploration is more mechanics, more possible things to do and search for, more ways for explorers to play the game. Here are my suggestions, posted in the suggestion forums:

Exploration Development: a Galaxy of Possibilities
 
Yeah, I don't think there's any way to ever get rid of the infinite-honk, but it sure would be nice to have some additional scanning and exploration elements added (see my sig ;))

For probing, you could physically / SC scan one way, and probe in another direction. That way you would even gain some time, scanning two things at the same time - while still having a new mechanic to enjoy (or not). Win-win scenario
This is a great idea. Especially if it was combined with an orrery map. :)
 
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