Explorers : would you consider giving up on the infinite honk for...?

[Genar-Hofoen]

Oh look it's this thread. Again.

Look...

You're looking at this all wrong.

The ADS merely gets the existence of the bodies. It's not exploration, it's body discovery.

It's the DSS mechanics that need reworking. A radical reworking at that. Concentrate on that, look at ToCoSo's ideas - I'm all for those.

The DSS is the exploration part of the game.

I still think people are being thrown off the scent due to the "First discovered by <CMDR>" tag - this should really read "First surveyed by <CMDR>".

Let's look at a different universe, set in space. Imagine how absolutely boring Star Trek would be if after the good ship Enterprise came out of warp at a previously unknown star system, they spent the next 45-60 minutes having to painstakingly discover the bodies in that system.

Yawn.

But no, they warp in, and a couple of bleeps later, "We've done a survey of the system, Captain. The fourth body from the main star looks like a class M planet, suitable for human life..." - "Very good. Mr Data, plot a course for that planet."

Leave the body discovery scanners alone.

Concentrate on the body survey mechanics.

And Frontier for goodness sake, please re-word "First discovered by" to the more correct "First surveyed by"!!

 

[Andovar]

Lots of good ideas in this thread. Hopefully some come to fruition.

Personally, I can't wait for 2.4 to come out. No, not for thargoids. But because I'm really looking forward to hearing about what core enhancements they have planned post-2.4

 

[Godsailsaqueen]

Oh look it's this thread. Again.

Look...

You're looking at this all wrong.

The ADS merely gets the existence of the bodies. It's not exploration, it's body discovery.

It's the DSS mechanics that need reworking. A radical reworking at that. Concentrate on that, look at ToCoSo's ideas - I'm all for those.

The DSS is the exploration part of the game.

I still think people are being thrown off the scent due to the "First discovered by <CMDR>" tag - this should really read "First surveyed by <CMDR>".

Let's look at a different universe, set in space. Imagine how absolutely boring Star Trek would be if after the good ship Enterprise came out of warp at a previously unknown star system, they spent the next 45-60 minutes having to painstakingly discover the bodies in that system.

Yawn.

But no, they warp in, and a couple of bleeps later, "We've done a survey of the system, Captain. The fourth body from the main star looks like a class M planet, suitable for human life..." - "Very good. Mr Data, plot a course for that planet."

Leave the body discovery scanners alone.

Concentrate on the body survey mechanics.

And Frontier for goodness sake, please re-word "First discovered by" to the more correct "First surveyed by"!!

oh look, here's that slightly disdainful person, ag... Well no, looks like you're the first here. Welcome

On your point, I agree with you. Still, a videogame is not a TV series nor a movie. A movie has to have ellipsies. But hell yes to more surveying mechanics.

 

[Winterwalker]

Good thread !

I like -->

Where i see the most oportunities is in detailed surface scanner, and its practical use, it should point to interestic surface structures, that are worth to visit, like cannyons, mountains, geyser, or even where is the higher chance to find one type of materials, things like that, maybe for even more POI with adition of atmosperic planets and gas giants in the future.

I like the idea of probing, maybe seismic surveying too, possibly physical sampling of planets/rings (not as a micro-commodity but as data). Don't know if giving exploration limpets supercruise capability would be in scope, or whether synthesis of limpets could be but I do know plate techtonics are used in ED world building, so it would be great to be able to access that somehow. (this Oct 2015 livetsream gives some insight into world buidling in the stellar forge and might give ideas on 'things to discover' that might be accessible from the game engine).

Also agree ..

And Frontier for goodness sake, please re-word "First discovered by" to the more correct "First surveyed by"!!

As well as feeling quite strongly that the HUD should read (engine) "overspeed" instead of the 'slow down' message. Don't know how many explorers will agree with me, but I also think overspeed (your FSD loses grip = slow down) should cause damage to the FSD.

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

Basically we need the orrery so we can attach loads of stuff into it that can go on the to do list for an explorer. Enter system, honk, go into the orrery see all the noteworthy features you could go an examine and think: right ... this might take a while ... sweet!

Not every system of course, just the jackpot ones.

 

[Patau82]

a module that combines limited range discovery scanner with a surface scanner would be cool, would give us the option of going for 2 modules with unlimited range or 1 module with limited range

 

[lefty1117]

I'd like to see limpet probes involved in exploration somehow. It just screams Star Trek, and even Star Wars, to be able to launch probes from your ship and have them go out and scan a surface, or a point of interest, etc. And that's not a bad thing! Perhaps Level 1 scans are the honk, Level 2 scans are the probe, and level 3 scans are the detailed surface scanner which require you to get up close. The challenge with the probes is that they are finite in supply, add weight to the ship and therefore impact fuel and jump range, which creates lots of interesting decisions to have to make.

Then I could see taking the detailed surface scanner and instead of having it just return the makeup of the body (the probe can do that) it also will mark points of interest on the planet map which the CMDR then has the option to go down in an SRV for additional exploration and rewards. Which would then imply that more exploration POIs for planet surfaces need to be added to the game. Shipwrecks, geysers, alien ruins, strange rock formations, and on and on.

All of these levels of scanning could be impacted, improved, by engineering and by the quality of the module.

On a side now, how cool would NPC crew interaction be here ... wouldn't it be neat to have an NPC crew mate with a skill that adds 10% range to scan distance, for example. Just musing aloud but it's so easy and exciting to think about what could be done.

 

[Canoe]

I loved the system planetary scanning in Mass Effect 2 (I think it was) where you worked through the surface to find deposits of elements. Was such a fun mini-game. Would love to see more detailed planetary searches that went just beyond "honk from a distance" and move on.

 

[Ziljan]

Basically we need the orrery so we can attach loads of stuff into it that can go on the to do list for an explorer. Enter system, honk, go into the orrery see all the noteworthy features you could go an examine and think: right ... this might take a while ... sweet!

Not every system of course, just the jackpot ones.

The idea of an orrery (if it's just a redone 3D system map screen) seems very limiting because there isn't much gameplay implied by it and (unless it's done in similar 3D HUD like in Star Citizen) it would probably happen divorced from cockpit gameplay, and at best would be like a mini-version of the galmap, but less useful (unless we get in-system jumps that we route plot?). And if it's a separate screen like the system map, it might as well be an alt-tab web page at that point.

I think it may be better to first think about the "loads of stuff" that we want to do from the cockpit that will help with exploration gameplay (like new DSS scanning mechanics), and then see if that content/gameplay can be shoe-horned into an orrery hologram interface or some other better 3D cockpit HUD telescope/planetarium interface where we can select visible targets planets/stars/nebula for zoomed-in inquiry etc, or maybe even a separate science/engineering station on the bridge for doing the same. And then maybe have a separate screen orrery as an optional viewing mode of the system map, so you can fast-forward time to look for alignments or more practical stuff like planning DSS scanning routes etc.

 

[Mengy]

The idea of an orrery (if it's just a redone 3D system map screen) seems very limiting because there isn't much gameplay implied by it and (unless it's done in similar 3D HUD like in Star Citizen) it would probably happen divorced from cockpit gameplay, and at best would be like a mini-version of the galmap, but less useful (unless we get in-system jumps that we route plot?). And if it's a separate screen like the system map, it might as well be an alt-tab web page at that point.

The best mechanic that the orrery map makes possible is that it allows explorers to much more easily find bodies and systems with very unusual or interesting orbital paths. If comets every get finished then the orrery will practically be needed in order to display them properly, as the current system map just can't do a good job of placing objects smaller than planets in a map view.

 

[[Diplomacy] Carnegie]

Not trying to be funny, but what's the gameplay in a comet?

 

[Ziljan]

The best mechanic that the orrery map makes possible is that it allows explorers to much more easily find bodies and systems with very unusual or interesting orbital paths. If comets every get finished then the orrery will practically be needed in order to display them properly, as the current system map just can't do a good job of placing objects smaller than planets in a map view.

1) you can see orbital paths very clearly from your cockpit by turning them on. This HUD display will doubtless show comet paths if/when they ever come.

2) On the time scales that players play, most orbital paths are not very useful information because we fly in the real-time simulated galaxy, not in the FF future or the RR past. So there is little to no gameplay involved in knowing orbital information, except in a hypothetical future sense. Creating a whole interface just to know that a planetary alignment is coming in 3342 isn't particularly useful info.

That being said, I am not fundamentally opposed to having the system map updated to include 3D features, especially if they are optional. But the gameplay for such an interface doesn't have a convincing concept yet. That case still needs to made imo.

Not trying to be funny, but what's the gameplay in a comet?

I am sure they could be mined just like any ice chunk, but I think the main question is: What is the gameplay of knowing a comets path when the time scales for orbits are measured in centuries?

 

[Godsailsaqueen]

Not trying to be funny, but what's the gameplay in a comet?

what's the gameplay in an earth like, on the same topic?
There's nothing there to do, nothing to really play with - still, you get a sense of achievement because earth likes are actually very rare and sometimes require a good eye to be spotted in the system map. The pleasure is not in the thing itself, but in its search and pick.
I'd like that sense of achievement and discovery to be applied to many more objects, and dedicated mechanics to look for them would be the kind of thing I'd like.

 

[[Diplomacy] Carnegie]

I am sure they could be mined just like any ice chunk, but I think the main question is: What is the gameplay of knowing a comets path when the time scales for orbits are measured in centuries?

what's the gameplay in an earth like, on the same topic?
There's nothing there to do, nothing to really play with - still, you get a sense of achievement because earth likes are actually very rare and sometimes require a good eye to be spotted in the system map. The pleasure is not in the thing itself, but in its search and pick.
I'd like that sense of achievement and discovery to be applied to many more objects, and dedicated mechanics to look for them would be the kind of thing I'd like.

I guess my question was really "What's the NEW gameplay in a comet"
It seems there isn't any other than an initial 'cool' factor and another page ticked off in the I-Spy book of astronomical objects

@GSaQ
With respect, you're kind of asking for just 'more of the same' there, maybe with a mini-game to make finding something more of a challenge.
I'm hoping for something more engaging, definitely in the long term - though I freely admit that I haven't got any fantastic ideas either

 

[Jezzah]

Hello Commanders!

For what it's worth, I personally wouldn't mind removing the infinite honk, just as I'd like to see the removal of the basic stellar scan that forces you to fly close to get any data. I would like to see processes that were a little more involved (and cool looking/feeling) with regards to Commanders actually having to do something, whilst minimising uncessessary super cruise travel time. But this is just me musing. Like the karma system, exploration (and extraction) is something that we'll hopefully be getting into in some more depth in the forums.

Thanks for the reply here Mr S.

You are succinctly saying what a lot of people here hope for in the way of improvements to Exploration.

More involvement is very welcome. Heat maps all that loveliness etc too

Sadly it sounds like this is still in the "dream" phase and a long way away from getting into an update.

Appreciate the comments though as stated.

 

[Mengy]

I guess my question was really "What's the NEW gameplay in a comet"
It seems there isn't any other than an initial 'cool' factor and another page ticked off in the I-Spy book of astronomical objects

Well, ideally there would be new mechanics which could be used to make comets have a purpose. My exploration suggestion thread proposes planet surface core samples to be implemented into the game. These could be used with comets too: players land on comets, deploy the SRV MkII (with drill rig) and drive around the comet surface hunting for the target location to drill for the core sample, a very valuable 1T cargo item, all the while avoiding explosive jets and fissures on the comet surface threatening to blow you right off the rock and into space, or even damaging the SRV with extreme heat damage.

Comets can have lots of interactive and interesting gameplay.

 

[Slopey]

Imho - make the ranking based on first discovered count/types rather than just cash, so you actually have to, you know... explore. As opposed to fly round a list of systems from a list on the web to get Elite in under a week. The PS4 highlights that this is badly broken.

Current game play I'm fine with - although drop the scan time from 30+ secs to 15 by default (everyone engineers range anyway don't they?) as that is really tedious. But at the moment, exploring is pointless unless you're doing it for relaxation, as you can just go follow the lists and get the ticket.

 

[[Diplomacy] Carnegie]

Well, ideally there would be new mechanics which could be used to make comets have a purpose. My exploration suggestion thread proposes planet surface core samples to be implemented into the game. These could be used with comets too: players land on comets, deploy the SRV MkII (with drill rig) and drive around the comet surface hunting for the target location to drill for the core sample, a very valuable 1T cargo item, all the while avoiding explosive jets and fissures on the comet surface threatening to blow you right off the rock and into space, or even damaging the SRV with extreme heat damage.

Comets can have lots of interactive and interesting gameplay.

Not sure that comets are generally going to be large enough or have sufficent gravity to actually drive around on. Maybe the big ones?
Plus the 'interesting' part with the ablation only happens for a small part of the orbital period, so generally they're going to be to pretty much inert.
Maybe there's something exciting that can be done with them though

 

[Godsailsaqueen]

I guess my question was really "What's the NEW gameplay in a comet"
It seems there isn't any other than an initial 'cool' factor and another page ticked off in the I-Spy book of astronomical objects

@GSaQ
With respect, you're kind of asking for just 'more of the same' there, maybe with a mini-game to make finding something more of a challenge.
I'm hoping for something more engaging, definitely in the long term - though I freely admit that I haven't got any fantastic ideas either

Yeah, no game designer. And I'm in a mixed bag of feeling vs actual things to do. The feeling, I can comment on mine at least, which I did extensively. The actual things to do I can't really invent.
Concerning comets, I just think it wouldn't be that hard to implement and yes, it would be one less on the list, but I do not see that as a real solution to the problems stated above. You'd need many more assets like that to make for a compelling upgrade.

 

[Ignition]

Honk should never have been in game.

No more automated simplistic gameplay please. Give us proper mechanics to scan and search of a space ship game. I want to see different types of probes and a UI for system scanning and planet scanning.

The absense of exploration gameplay is shoking. I want to be an explorer not a honker, I want tools in my ship to help me find things.