That true, but it doesn't justify that 90% of this threads posts are off topic. Anytime someone makes a post about Elite having MMO qualities this always happens.
FD made an MMO without understanding how successful MMOs work
- Thread starter Scharmers
- Start date
That true, but it doesn't justify that 90% of this threads posts are off topic. Anytime someone makes a post about Elite having MMO qualities this always happens.
There seems to be a lot of aggressive stancing going on between open players and solo/group only players. That needs to stop please.
I'm curious if anyone has stopped to think that those of us, myself included, who want Elite to be closer to the traditional MMO definition want that because we love the game and want to push FD towards that because it will increase the longevity of the game? If the game is focused on single player/coop it's going to die off over the span of a few short years. Yes, it may exist still but sales of the game will dwindle and development will slow dramatically or even cease at some point or another.
Building the game in the traditional MMO sense has nothing to do with its mechanics or the size of the game world. The words "Massively" & "Multiplayer" have been disassociated with each other several times in this thread. I grew up gaming with the understand of "Massively Multiplayer" being a single description. Not separate words, and I'm sure many of you reading this did too.
I define "Massively Multiplayer" as supporting many players and enabling them to interact and exist in the same environment. We have that, to an extent. However it's muddied. Part of that is by design. Part of that is a result of backers pushing hard for offline mode, and getting what they want. I personally was not a backer, but wish I had been if for nothing else than to try and add to the numbers of those pushing for a true MMO feel.
My opinion is that the reason Elite Dangerous can not deliver on an MMO feel is because you can transition seamlessly from Open to Solo/Group. Bounty boards show the highest bounties regardless of whether or not they play in open mode or not and when people are forced into player interaction in Open, they just close their game with zero penalty, baffling me as to why they even bothered to play in Open in the first place.
The galaxy status needs to be linked between Open & Solo/Group for technical reasons from my understanding, and honestly I am begrudgingly OK with that. The reason for that is simply that rendering a persistant universe at the quality that FD has done on your own personal computer and playing the game wouldn't be nearly as immersive because the galaxy won't continue to evolve when your game isn't running.
I am a firm supporter that the solution to this problem and divide within the community is to seperate the three modes into two save states. One for Open play, and one for Solo & Group to be combined into. Do you want to play alone with the choice to coop with your friends on occasion? Use your solo\group save. Want to play in a universe where you can run into Commanders who create emergent gameplay and truly enrich the sandbox experience? Play in Open.
I feel though that the saves really do need to be seperated. When they're seperated copy everyones existing save into both save states and give them the ability to flip between them, but split all advancement for each one from each other. Then as players in Open we can actually create compelling player interactions and the effect of solo and group players will essentially be "Background NPC Activity" to Open, while the same feeling will be experienced by those in Singleplayer/Group mode, which is how they like it.
The same mechanics that give us goals and things to do, build, expand, etc from an "MMO" perspective can be built in ways that it can still be fully utilized by those in single player and group modes, which only further improves the experience and content for those in singleplayer.
This ultimately gives those that want a true MMO experience, that experience, and it gives those that want the single player and coop experiences the benefits of a game being affected by and funded by many die hard fans. Not to mention those who want to play single player can dip their toes into it whenever they want without actually risking any of their single player progress.
I feel that what I've said here is the best compromise we can hope for and I really want to see this happen.
As a side note on comparisons as well... Those of you saying "Wait until Star Citizen comes out." need look into it a little more. Star Citizen will be just as instanced and suffer from the same problems that are a result of a hybrid offline/online save mode with a mix of EVE Onlines "high security" space added in. From my perspective, the shiny doesn't make that system any better than Elite. It just makes it different.
I'm curious if anyone has stopped to think that those of us, myself included, who want Elite to be closer to the traditional MMO definition want that because we love the game and want to push FD towards that because it will increase the longevity of the game? If the game is focused on single player/coop it's going to die off over the span of a few short years. Yes, it may exist still but sales of the game will dwindle and development will slow dramatically or even cease at some point or another.
Building the game in the traditional MMO sense has nothing to do with its mechanics or the size of the game world. The words "Massively" & "Multiplayer" have been disassociated with each other several times in this thread. I grew up gaming with the understand of "Massively Multiplayer" being a single description. Not separate words, and I'm sure many of you reading this did too.
I define "Massively Multiplayer" as supporting many players and enabling them to interact and exist in the same environment. We have that, to an extent. However it's muddied. Part of that is by design. Part of that is a result of backers pushing hard for offline mode, and getting what they want. I personally was not a backer, but wish I had been if for nothing else than to try and add to the numbers of those pushing for a true MMO feel.
My opinion is that the reason Elite Dangerous can not deliver on an MMO feel is because you can transition seamlessly from Open to Solo/Group. Bounty boards show the highest bounties regardless of whether or not they play in open mode or not and when people are forced into player interaction in Open, they just close their game with zero penalty, baffling me as to why they even bothered to play in Open in the first place.
The galaxy status needs to be linked between Open & Solo/Group for technical reasons from my understanding, and honestly I am begrudgingly OK with that. The reason for that is simply that rendering a persistant universe at the quality that FD has done on your own personal computer and playing the game wouldn't be nearly as immersive because the galaxy won't continue to evolve when your game isn't running.
I am a firm supporter that the solution to this problem and divide within the community is to seperate the three modes into two save states. One for Open play, and one for Solo & Group to be combined into. Do you want to play alone with the choice to coop with your friends on occasion? Use your solo\group save. Want to play in a universe where you can run into Commanders who create emergent gameplay and truly enrich the sandbox experience? Play in Open.
I feel though that the saves really do need to be seperated. When they're seperated copy everyones existing save into both save states and give them the ability to flip between them, but split all advancement for each one from each other. Then as players in Open we can actually create compelling player interactions and the effect of solo and group players will essentially be "Background NPC Activity" to Open, while the same feeling will be experienced by those in Singleplayer/Group mode, which is how they like it.
The same mechanics that give us goals and things to do, build, expand, etc from an "MMO" perspective can be built in ways that it can still be fully utilized by those in single player and group modes, which only further improves the experience and content for those in singleplayer.
This ultimately gives those that want a true MMO experience, that experience, and it gives those that want the single player and coop experiences the benefits of a game being affected by and funded by many die hard fans. Not to mention those who want to play single player can dip their toes into it whenever they want without actually risking any of their single player progress.
I feel that what I've said here is the best compromise we can hope for and I really want to see this happen.
As a side note on comparisons as well... Those of you saying "Wait until Star Citizen comes out." need look into it a little more. Star Citizen will be just as instanced and suffer from the same problems that are a result of a hybrid offline/online save mode with a mix of EVE Onlines "high security" space added in. From my perspective, the shiny doesn't make that system any better than Elite. It just makes it different.
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citation needed
agreed
"hey look at me, loud spoiled teenager with zero knowledge on game design or economic design. you better listen to me or I'll uninstall, cause I'm important. my $60 contributed way more than anyone else!!"
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Elite isn't an MMO in the currently accepted cultural sense that's grown up over the past decade. It is a game which feels very close to it's single player roots, with multiplayer 'that seemed like a good idea at the time, shame the technology doesn't really work yet' bolted on. Now whether that is a good or a bad thing - YMMV. (Oooh! Better add a IMHO there! 
)
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As regards to the missions system being repetitive, whilst no one would argue that more variety, depth and complexity to missions would be ideal, I wouldn't scrap what we already have. As a simulation of a space truckers life (which is why I'm here, and why I backed) fetch quests for trade goods and courier items absolutely have their place. As a simulation of military conflict or as the only levers on political events, they leave much to be desired.
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As for 1.3, as long as more complexity in ship systems, NPC persistence, wingmen and comms. along with other stuff from the DDA's adding depth get added I'm happy. If 1.3 turns out to be another half-baked idea to get the half-baked multiplayer working over some conflict between the Federation and Empire, meh...
).
As regards to the missions system being repetitive, whilst no one would argue that more variety, depth and complexity to missions would be ideal, I wouldn't scrap what we already have. As a simulation of a space truckers life (which is why I'm here, and why I backed) fetch quests for trade goods and courier items absolutely have their place. As a simulation of military conflict or as the only levers on political events, they leave much to be desired.
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As for 1.3, as long as more complexity in ship systems, NPC persistence, wingmen and comms. along with other stuff from the DDA's adding depth get added I'm happy. If 1.3 turns out to be another half-baked idea to get the half-baked multiplayer working over some conflict between the Federation and Empire, meh...
AKA "The doesn't agree with me, must be a spoiled teenager argument" AKA the Strawman Defense. A hit, a very palpable hit!
Citation accepted.
i don't completely disagree with your argument. that is not what i'm aiming at. it's you're "this game sucks, it's not good compared to other games that have been around for 8 years", "i wanted a good space sim now!!"
most people with you're aguments are just circling the same concept. that you want a perfect game now. either be patient, cause it gets better over time. or go play something else and come back when it fits your expectations. you're being impatient, angry, and irrationally. i think that constitutes as a "loud spoiled teenager" to me.
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it becomes significantly better with mods, like XRM or X-tended TC. but i recommend playing vanilla for a while first so you can fully appreciate these complete conversions.
So, you're expecting that even without feedback from puzzled/unhappy/dissatisfied players, that a perfect version of ED will pop out of FD like Athena from Zeus' head? Then is software even beta tested? And when will this happen? A week from now? A month from now? When Derek Smart buys the abandoned ED servers from a disinterested FD a couple years from now?
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA.....HAHA.... couple of months, that's funny... try 8 months to 3 years, before this game becomes what you're asking for. you're going to be a very angry and impatient kid for a long time. this game is huge, and will take a huge amount of time to improve every aspect to the expectations of all the players.
if i had to pull a release date chart out of my ASP, i woudl guess this.
1) new ships+ fed cruser-------------------------------- 2 months
2) better missions/team missions/ scaling missions-------- 1 month
3) better more competative instances for serious players- 3 months
4) ability to walk around stations/ planets--------------- 6 months
5) better economy/mining------------------------------ 8 months
6) first expansion-------------------------------------- 9 months
7) game reaches your expectation---------------------- 13 months/never
i hope you're ready for a long journey. either enjoy what you got now with the game, or sit angrily for months to come.
if any of you guys knew what it takes to make a game conceptually better and with more depth and detail. you would appreciate how quickly FD is releasing content. i question how often David has to replace his "motivation" wipe.
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Oh no, my friend. You wrong. So terribly wrong in your assessment. You want to know why? I'll tell you why. Because this:
Sucks in single player games too.
Seriously you are just embarrassing yourself with comments like that. I'd certainly like to debate feedback but with players who have a bit more of an appreciation and understanding of the game and who aren't talking a load of codswallop.
InMemoriamSirocco
Banned
Back to beating dead horses, are we?
Thanks to this thread my boyfriend now has to cope with me playing Elite in my tiniest bikini. He says hi and "I love you guys"
Thanks to this thread my boyfriend now has to cope with me playing Elite in my tiniest bikini. He says hi and "I love you guys"
If your version of MMO is to produce WOW then no. Yes the missions need a improvement and it in the works, hopefully eventually they will be fully procedurally generated and have real impact on the unvierse. Encounters already scale, may be it not brilliant at it at the moment and not always correctly, at least in the beta but they do scale. An MMOs are famous for putting in half baked systems, especially smaller MMOs.
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It's a relief that your attitude will likely mean no dev will ever be directed to your thread. So I'm glad you're posts are so toxic to the Devs, who are your target audience, or so you state. Unless you're just trolling, which I am more inclined to believe.
I want a baby thargoid
I agree with op but i dont care for the fetch mission if you dont have to do them for ever. When you're out of your hauler you can dismiss them entirely, also i can rationalize that it's fun with the smuggling and faction war mechanic.
But it didnt take me long to realize that frontier made a multiplayer game without knowing how to make one or to even how to manage the forum of a multiplayer game. When i came to that realization i went to the frontier site and looked at the game they previously released and everything became clear, you can't expect the company behind tycoon/disney games to grasp all that the multiplayer genre entails on day one. It's been stated many times over that this game feels like it does not know what it want to be, solo or coop or multiplayer. I was lucky to join during beta with no expectation(because beta) and slowly learn what the game was and was not going(supposed) to be. Those who join now probably have expectations the game wont meet till 2016. Frontier has done a great job with the recent patches to mold the game into something more appealing. But it's the kind of stuff you expected for a release and the game is only now taking shapes.
That's like saying Justin Bieber is a benchmark for music or that reality tv is a benchmark for tv, everything that has been twisted and engineered to aggro the masses all have one thing in common and it's not being great.
But it didnt take me long to realize that frontier made a multiplayer game without knowing how to make one or to even how to manage the forum of a multiplayer game. When i came to that realization i went to the frontier site and looked at the game they previously released and everything became clear, you can't expect the company behind tycoon/disney games to grasp all that the multiplayer genre entails on day one. It's been stated many times over that this game feels like it does not know what it want to be, solo or coop or multiplayer. I was lucky to join during beta with no expectation(because beta) and slowly learn what the game was and was not going(supposed) to be. Those who join now probably have expectations the game wont meet till 2016. Frontier has done a great job with the recent patches to mold the game into something more appealing. But it's the kind of stuff you expected for a release and the game is only now taking shapes.
That's like saying Justin Bieber is a benchmark for music or that reality tv is a benchmark for tv, everything that has been twisted and engineered to aggro the masses all have one thing in common and it's not being great.
Stopped playing at the end of TBC, which is considered by many to be WoW at its best.
I am told that after the TBC they started catering it to the more casual players, the forum crybabies, who probably only kept their subscriptions active a few months.
It was still pretty grindy back when I played it, but not terribly, you spent an hour or so a day to finish your dailies and then you figured out something else to do (usually raids or goofing off with friends, or farming something to sell on the AH, or farming for raid buff supplies, but generally a little of all of them). Of course, it was actually still tough back then too, you actually died several times before ever completing a raid boss assuming you were even able to (I was in Sunwell at the time, but my guild didn't get passed the 3rd or 4th boss...I forget).