FD made an MMO without understanding how successful MMOs work

cpy

Banned
cpy
Do a better job if you can.

ED have simulated universe at same level as mountain simulator, tree simulator or grass simulator.
 
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klh

klh
No no no. ED only has one galaxy. MMOs can have more places to go than just one galaxy because MMOs aren't limited by things like science. ED is definitely not an MMO.

May ED never change to be an MMO either.
 

jabokai

jabokai
Pecisk said:
One of them actually affects game world. One doesn't.



I said same things over and over again *without* affecting game world.
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You say that like it's the most important factor - if the actual gameplay (you know, what the player is actually spending their time doing) of the missions are dull and repetitive then does the fact that it "affects the game world" make that all right? I'd say no, but I gather you think yes.
 

Ideas Man

Banned
Ideas Man
David Braben himself called it an MMO, that's the reason people on here argue about the definition so much, because outright saying it isn't an MMO is something the creators themselves disagree with, so folk on here
grasp at the semantics straw as a last hiding place, it's funny.
 

Scharmers

S
Not sure if I even mentioned EVE in my first post. /Flips pages... nope, I didn't, and it's a good thing I didn't, because I've player 0:00 minutes of EVE. So "OMG ED IS NOT EVE" arguments are lost on me.

I still stand by FD as being poor MMO devs, based on the content -- particularly the mission and encounter content -- that's been released. Regardless of 4 people instances or 9,000 people instances, stepin fetchin through the cosmos stinks as encounter content. 400 Billion Stars, and I get to nip over to Wimbley's next door and snag a Prototype Tech or three. Or maybe, just maybe, if I grind enough with my mates, the Alliance Left Republican Square Dancing Co-op influence will crawl from 56% to 57%.

I'm almost in favor of stripping away EVERYTHING but straight-up old-school Elite sim mechanics: the missions, the background sim, the lot of it. Just space trucking between stations, getting intercepted on station transit, and the endgame is merely getting to Elite. Get rid of all this weird, half-finished cruft that's been layered on since the Beta, so FD can start again with an eye with what works and what doesn't.
 

Robert Maynard

Volunteer Moderator
Robert Maynard
Ideas Man said:
David Braben himself called it an MMO, that's the reason people on here argue about the definition so much, because outright saying it isn't an MMO is something the creators themselves disagree with, so folk on here
grasp at the semantics straw as a last hiding place, it's funny.
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It probably all hinges on what the agreed definition of MMO is.... ;)
 

Ideas Man

Banned
Ideas Man
jabokai said:
You say that like it's the most important factor - if the actual gameplay (you know, what the player is actually spending their time doing) of the missions are dull and repetitive then does the fact that it "affects the game world" make that all right? I'd say no, but I gather you think yes.
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I've never once felt like anything I do affects anything anyway, I gather that after weeks of grinding I could make the price of tomatos drop in some far off station?
The ways you can change the landscape in WoW is impressive these days, whole areas of the terrain can be altered directly by your actions, forever.
Edit: I don't even like WoW that much, how did I start going on about it again? Sorry!

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Robert Maynard said:
It probably all hinges on what the agreed definition of MMO is.... ;)
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That was exactly my point, yes.
 
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Talarin

T
MMO or not MMO? Is it relevant or important? I'd say not.
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Lazy generalisation leads to lazy comparisons. Trying to reach the bland heights of "all [insert your chosen generalisation] should do this" leads to all games being the same. Let Elite stand on it's own feet, with it's own strengths and flaws.
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That being said; I have a particular objection to the suggestion in the OP (and I'll apologise in advance if anyone else has picked this up, I've not had the time to read the thread in full).

There are no carefully constructed encounters/instances for powerful players, or dynamically-scaling encounters to match the number of active players -- sail a newbie Sidewinder or a fully-loaded Vulture into a High-Intensity Zone, nothing changes; just a capital ship with endlessly-spawning Eagles and Vipers.
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I fundamentally object to any attempt to implement scaled environmental/encounter content. The contents of space, or any other environment, do not shape themselves according to number or relative power of the observer. What's there is there - deal with it accordingly.
 

Blastbeats

Blastbeats
WiseDuck said:
I have been saying what you just said for far to long. It will fall on deaf ears buddy.

All credit to FD for giving their fans what they wanted. The problem is that that fan base don't really play multiplayer games or hate them all together.

Also ED is not an MMO.

Many dev teams are hijacking the term MMO just to make the game they are selling sound bigger than it really is.
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I am a fan of Elite, and all I play are multipler games. More specifically MMOs: DAoC, SWG, EQ2, WoW(everyone's tried it once in their life),Vanguard, Dragon's Prophet, STO, SWTOR, AoC, ESO, RIFT, ArcheAge, Allods, RoM, Planetside 1 and Planetside 2, etc. I hate single player games. I find them boring. Maybe I am the 1%?

The term MMO means Massivley-Multipler Online. Massively-Multiplayer means there are a massive amounts of players. This terms usually implies there is a persistent universe that continues whether you are logged in or not. Online means just that....it is online. I agree that a lot of games that are multiplayer, aren't necessarily massively-multiplayer, and people like to stamp that term on their game, such as Star Conflict or War Thunder.

Elite:Dangerous' Open play fits this description. It is online(via p2p), has a massive amount of players existing within the same persistent universe. How many players? Well...you can only directly interact with maybe 100 players in your instance right? So that doesn't seem massive, however that gets to the point where you have to define what constitutes as massively. Is 100 players NOT massively but 101 players is?
 

Robert Maynard

Volunteer Moderator
Robert Maynard
gogereaver said:
well wings changed the entire game soo.
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They have - also, Wings are an implementation of a game feature which was discussed in the DDF some time ago (as Alliances):

Sandro Sammarco said:
In addition to the groups presented above a player can be a part of an Alliance with other players. This is a separate entity that operates within the boundaries of whatever group the players are in:

  • A player can only ever be in a single alliance at a time
  • Alliances allow players to indicate trust between themselves so they:
    • Can freely jettison and pick up cargo between themselves
    • Can fire upon each other without criminal implications
    • Gain the same criminal fine/bounty if one or more other members commits a crime
      • This only occurs if the player is in the same vicinity as the player committing the crime
    • Have the ability to slave hyperdrive systems together to make travel easier
    • Get matched as a whole during slaved hyperspace travel and if not possible spawn in their own instance at a location rather than splitting the alliance up
  • Alliances in the all players group allow those in the alliance to come across other human players as normal except the game is explicitly trying to keep the alliance together when they arrive at the same location through match-making
    • This is in addition to the normal preference system and operates by giving a much higher weighting to alliance members when determining preferences over friends for example
  • Alliances in a private group would only meet other players in that private group
    • Depending on the size of the group, players may typically be in an alliance with everyone else in the private group but multiple alliances can exist in a larger private group if desired
  • Creating an alliance is handled exactly the same way as creating a private group with the caveat that anyone in the group can invite other players (including non-friend players) into the alliance and no one is the leader
    • In the all players group any player can be invited into the alliance by any alliance member
    • In a private group only the players in the private group can be invited into an alliance by alliance members
    • Players can vote to kick an alliance member out of the alliance
      • After a set time limit the vote is closed and the majority is taken to decide the outcome unless all members have already voted or the required number of votes is reached
    • Players can leave freely of their own accord
  • Any criminal status or reputation earned as a consequence of other alliance members behaviour is kept after leaving an alliance
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So, while Wings have changed the game, they are not something that is new to the stated game design.
 

SiriusSeven

S
Blastbeats said:
I am a fan of Elite, and all I play are multipler games. More specifically MMOs: DAoC, SWG, EQ2, WoW(everyone's tried it once in their life),Vanguard, Dragon's Prophet, STO, SWTOR, AoC, ESO, RIFT, ArcheAge, Allods, RoM, Planetside 1 and Planetside 2, etc. I hate single player games. I find them boring. Maybe I am the 1%?

The term MMO means Massivley-Multipler Online. Massively-Multiplayer means there are a massive amounts of players. This terms usually implies there is a persistent universe that continues whether you are logged in or not. Online means just that....it is online. I agree that a lot of games that are multiplayer, aren't necessarily massively-multiplayer, and people like to stamp that term on their game, such as Star Conflict or War Thunder.

Elite:Dangerous' Open play fits this description. It is online(via p2p), has a massive amount of players existing within the same persistent universe. How many players? Well...you can only directly interact with maybe 100 players in your instance right? So that doesn't seem massive, however that gets to the point where you have to define what constitutes as massively. Is 100 players NOT massively but 101 players is?
Click to expand...

ED supports 32 players per instance
 
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Ideas Man

Banned
Ideas Man
Robert Maynard said:
They have - also, Wings are an implementation of a game feature which was discussed in the DDF some time ago (as Alliances):



So, while Wings have changed the game, they are not something that is new to the stated game design.
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Either way they are an amazing addition and FD should be applauded for how they have handled it so far.

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SiriusSeven said:
ED supports 32 players per instance
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Which, lets be honest, is more players in one place than you'll ever see in games like Rift etc, apart from major hubs such as cities, and even then it's a stretch.
 

Cmdr Eagleboy

Cmdr Eagleboy
Blastbeats said:
Cool. So 32 players per instance, with dozens of instances existing within each system.
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It's not instance, but bubble around players. That bubble is limited by distance from most outward player. This bubble can hold 32 players.

So that means you can meet thousand players in one system. You can however can meet 32 players *at once*.
 

Talarin

T
InMemoriamSirocco said:
All of this needless banter could have been avoided if Frontier had just called their retail version of the game "Beta Release".

Just saying.
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I disagree with you. Given that the game was always going to be in perpetual development it was always going to be released without its final features - because that feature set will only exist when Elite is no longer supported.
 

Ideas Man

Banned
Ideas Man
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