Horizons FDev, please talk to the active PVP community.

[Etherimp]

Some thoughts from a avowed PvE douchebag:
I note the following - to me obvious - line of reasoning missing:

* There is a designated, pure PvP mode in ED - CQC.
* It's not what (a part of?) the PvP crowd wants - I get that from this thread
* Thus, improve/remake it that appeals PvP more.

This could only serve for some quick pewpew, as there is no connection to the BGS (ie. PP or player-backed minor factions). But with some strictly controlled environment, balancing issues would be much more apparent. Such 'arenas' might serve as a testing ground for balancing.
The results might prove hard to translate into the main game - there are no traders in a PvP arena - but a fun PvP mode, wouldn't that already be some progress? Is CQC beyond hope as-is?

The list of improvements is pretty good, esp. the repair limpets. Those would allow for players/the Fuel Rats to update to full emergency services.
Extending this idea, I propose
* ammo storage in internal compartments (also for personal usage?)
* ammo transfer limpits
for the new role of 'baggage ships'. Refuel, repair, rearm right where you need it. I assume this to be an interesting element for large scale PvP wing operations - if properly balanced.

I think maybe the way ED should handle cargo/ammo/limpets is like this:


1. Remove the separate versions of "limpet controllers". Make ONE type of Limpet controller to rule them all. Each size allows you to control more limpets.

2. Add the TYPES of limpets as available "Restock" purchase options, which store in a cargo hold. These could include: Fuel transfer, Collector (cargo transfer), Hatch Breaker, Maintenance (Repair), Prospector, Attack (Beam), Attack (Pulse), and possibly others. Attack and Repair Limpets would be more expensive, and would draw quite a bit of power from your "System" capacitor to remain active, forcing you to keep points in Systems, or the limpets temporarily lose functionality.

3. Make "Ammo" purchasable in "tons" and available to store in your cargo hold. This would allow you to jettison ammo for friends, and use ammo from your cargo to re-arm certain weapons at the cost of time, and perhaps a module/utility, or perhaps requiring a limpet to re-arm you.

This would open up ALL kinds of options for PVE and PVP alike.

 

[lenna]

1. Hull reinforcements and SCB's both add to the "Effective HP" of a ship. SCB's do not help you if you do not use them (or your shields drop before using them), and Hull reinforcements help you stay alive but only mitigate a percentage of module damage (which is much more likely to disable a heavily armored ship.) .. Point is, SCB's and Hull Reinforcements should be a viable option for small OR large ships and should scale equally. This is a no-brainer, so not sure what your problem is with it.

My point is that I do not actually see a problem with them as they currently stand. The Hull Reinforcement packages can be used to build a damage soaker T9 for example Coriolis build "Star Destroyer T9". As for SCBs, their current balance seems to be effectively double for the same slot class (e.g. 5A SCB v. 5D HRP) but they do go up higher in grade and weigh less probably because they draw power. If we are talking about adding HRPs above class 5 in-line with the current balance of SCBs v. HRPs or say a greater range of HRPs for each class (i.e. not just 1E, 1D, 2E, 2D, 3E, 3D, 4E, 4D, 5E, 5D) then I see no problem with it per se.

2. I run Prismatics on my Courier, as well. The ship is trash for PVE and trash for PVP. It doesn't have enough sustain for PVE and it doesn't have *ANYTHING* that makes it a good PVP ship anymore. It used to be passable because you could have 550MJ shields with several recharges with SCB's.. now, equipping the ship with SCB's is virtually suicide, so you have to resort to Hull Reinforcements... on a ship that is effectively NOT designed to hull tank.

Ever think about trying to not get hit in the first place, the courier is not exactly a slouch really and do not forget that shield boosters can add more shield strength overall without the heat/ammo problems of SCBs (which I believe are really meant for larger ships anyway to compensate for their size IMO). I am not sure what build my friend runs with his courier but this is a build I would contemplate for it. To my mind, SCBs seem to be overused and over stated. Similarly with HRPs really.

pair limpets.. Limpets are already in the game and attack/repair limpets would function similarly. Furthermore, "swarming" would be limited by the amount of modules you had which could fire drones and how many drones those modules can launch. Some ships, obviously, if built purely as a drone boat, could create rather massive swarms, but they would also be sacrificing valuable defenses and stressing their energy requirements, which would mean they would have to sacrifice SCB's, Shields, Shield Boosters, or high-impact weapons such as PA's, Rails, Beams, Bursts, etc.

Limpets in an attack case would add to the ship population limits and associated network traffic by necessity, other kinds of limpets their precise position is not needed to be known by the other ships really, except in the limited case of a limpet being used to steal cargo perhaps.

4. PvPers don't inherently understand balance better than anyone else but they understand the limitations and capabilities of modules/ships better than anyone else. Sorry, but this truth is self-evident. Most (many) PVE players I come across aren't even aware you can high-wake out of any PVP situation. Most of them are not aware of MANY combat mechanics. Many of them don't even know how to do a simple 180 FA-Off flip, which is a fundamental PVP maneuver.

That is nothing to do with PvE v. PvP but rather experience in game and experimentation. In the PvE scenario, if you do not learn the things you have mentioned then you are almost certainly not a combat oriented pilot anyway. That does not mean that even many PvE'ers know the limits of the modules any less than a PvPer. The general assertion, is pretty much pretentious presumption IMO.
---
The old you can high wake out of combat argument to avoid unwanted PvP is the age old "excuse" used by gankers, griefers, and other not nice people. If you have just been interdicted and are trying to run then without third party solutions such as Voice Attack (and assuming you can get such things working well for you - which is far from a given) then the likelihood is that selecting a system to high-wake to when you are in your target system and under attack is not going to be as easy as some like to make out (in addition there are additional concerns such as flight vector alignment, FSD recharge, and FSD disruption). The high wake to escape is not a PvP exclusive thing either.
---
FA/OFF manoeuvres are not some PvPer secret, any experienced PvE combat pilot would need to get to know how to master FA/OFF at some point if they want to be able to take on (at least high end) AI Wings solo.
---
There are some PvPers that do not know about Prismatic shields (I have heard of some courier pilots being accused of cheating because their courier survives a ramming attack - either end) while many PvE'ers may know about them if they have investigated the options of PP.
---
Overall, the point is that knowledge/understanding is about an individual player doing the appropriate research/experimentation not the PvE/PvP divide. PvP does not magically add something that allows you learn about the game any better.
---
@Maccatan: WRT "if you don't know how ships suck then that is your problem", I counter with "if you don't know how to capitalise on a ship then that is your problem".

 

[Enderby]

This is what makes me sad about this community.

"IF YOU WANT PVP GO SOMEWHERE ELSE! THIS GAME WAS NOT MEANT FOR PVP."

Okay.. I'll go play something else. Thanks for ruining a game which could be potentially awesome for PVP by remaining extremely close-minded and judgmental towards people who have a different way of enjoying this game than you do. (Speaking generally here, not toward you.)

Hey don't shoot the messenger, mate...

I love pvp. But I don't think that this game has the wherewithal to provide a proper pvp experience.

I know your post wasn't directed towards me personally but - it's true - if you want proper pvp, look elsewhere.

 

[lenna]

if you want proper pvp, look elsewhere.

I think it is more appropriate to say that if you are after pulse racing regular PvP then look elsewhere, although CQC seems to have been added to offer that kind of gameplay specifically.
---
There are many different kinds of PvP experience, and not all of them are catered for with ED although it does a fair attempt to address as big an audience as possible. What you are referring to as proper PvP is almost certainly one of the PvP gameplay varieties that is not really catered for - c/f fleet sized PvP conflicts (c/f Eve/SC?).
---
CQC could probably do with some improvement from what I have heard but where ED itself is concerned the ships in general are pretty diverse in their utility. This may become more obvious after the introduction of multi-crew and fighter bays especially where the Keelback is concerned which currently seems a bit overstated in terms of price v. utility (the fighter bay being the point which seems quite a unique feature for it's ship size)

 

[MAccatan]

Are you being ageist or daddist? Or both?

Excuse me if I made you feel bad, my goal was not to hurt your feelings. I am near/at dad age myself so it was not exactly pointed at people with a specific age but with such a risk-averse mindset.

Well for you it's obviously not, but let's continue.

I submit to your better judgement on which ships are better. For me, if it's not an Asp Explorer, it's not worth flying.

I currently own an Asp, a clipper and soon I will have a FAS. Dont twist my words - there is no such a thing as "the best ship in elite" and I never implied anything like this. But when it comes to making other npc's/people explode, some ships are much better than their counterparts. There are different roles in the games and there are different classes of ships too. If half the combat ships are awful at combat, then this is bad for the overall game balance.

No player hides anywhere. They play as they wish to play.

Point taken. You can change "hide" with "avoids interraction" if you wish.

RP being a player with a bad connection then.

What is your point here, I was only saying that I got no response (after waiting for at least 30 seconds and multiple messages). Im not the one who has "connection" issues

There IS no player faction warfare in Elite - only NPC factions and player groups supporting or detracting them.

Who influences the warfare outcome? The NPCs? The "leaders" of these factions? Or the players? You tell me. PP is the definition player vs player faction warfare. It doesn't have player-controlled factions, but this doesnt change the fact.

ANYWAY. If you are playing against other players (because this is what you do in PowerPlay, no matter how you call it), you should not have that much influence while AVOIDING said players and any ways to stop you. This completely defeats the purpose. If you want to play singleplayer "im the hero of the galaxy" then sure, get your bonuses and rewards from PowerPlay, but your influence should be reduced (if not removed).


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Thats another topic though. My point is, no one here can say "elite is not for pvp, it is only for my playstyle". As I said I am not a pvp player, but I always play in open. I agree that everyone should be able to play the way he wants, I agree that griefing is annoying (griefing NOT being legitimate piracy or some cool roleplaying or whatever it is that gives you a chance to survive - definitely not opening fire and killing on sight). But just as I dont limit your opportunities to "have a good time/fun" I dont want anyone to do the same and tell me what the game is for and what not. This thread is mostly about ship balance and it is clear to everyone that when it comes to combat ships there is NO balance. This is a problem no matter what you want to do with these ships - kill NPCs, do assassination missions or shoot other players.



Edit: CQC is the equivalent of "battlegrounds" in some popular MMO's I dont want to mention. I dont have anything against it (except that it is so hard to find a match), but it is very limited and has no effect on the "real" game. No risk, almost no reward either. The game is open world, for me PvP is interaction with other players out there.

 

[Quineloe]

PVP in this game is incredibly Elite. In every single PVP hotbed you have the most powerful ships with perfect setups to engage you for no reason and without consequence. On top of it all, the loser pays a very severe price for each loss.

This type of PVP simply is not sustainable and the vast majority of any player base will end up not participating. This isn't news. Many games have failed in the past because they made PVP expensive, losses crippling and an entry barrier to it that makes most people never even consider getting into PVP.

I do not believe we're looking at a salvagable system here.

 

[MAccatan]

PVP in this game is incredibly Elite. In every single PVP hotbed you have the most powerful ships with perfect setups to engage you for no reason and without consequence. On top of it all, the loser pays a very severe price for each loss.

This type of PVP simply is not sustainable and the vast majority of any player base will end up not participating. This isn't news. Many games have failed in the past because they made PVP expensive, losses crippling and an entry barrier to it that makes most people never even consider getting into PVP.

I do not believe we're looking at a salvagable system here.

Response from the security ships should be beefed up, pirates should be chased out of systems and there should be a way to locate a player that has a bounty. For me traveling through Fed/Emp/Alliance systems shouldn't be neither 100% dangerous nor 100% safe. But if you jump in an independent system or god forbid - an anarchy one .. im sure that no one here even checks if the route that he planned goes through an anarchy system.

Other than that I agree that the current "consequences" for killing people are hilariously bad. Pair that with a wing of 4 anacondas that interdict you and make you explode within two seconds ... but how often does that happen? During community goals - maybe. During normal gameplay? I've never had this happen to me and the chances are very slim. Even then, WHEN it happens you lose 5% of the value of your ship. Once in what, a month?

Someone mentioned earlier that high-waking to get out of a hairy situation isnt viable. I have participated in exactly zero pvp in this game (unless i've been on the receiving end) and even so when I got interdicted in my clipper during a trade run for a community goal, I managed to open my nav panel and quickly select a neighboring system. I escaped with something like 50% hull left because I didnt perform any maneuvers while doing it. Flying in a straight line tends to cause that. #
Now we can even filter the navigation panel and exclude things like asteroid belts and moons/planets. It is even easier to select another system and do a jump.

TL DR it is viable, maybe not so much if you are in a type 7/type 9 without shields (to maximize profits nevertheless...). Avarice kills.

 

[ever]

The main disease of PvP is combat logging. As developers, I don't think you can do much about it. You have already given the option of Solo/Groups. You can however decrease the numbers of combat logging by making announcements, placing visible text about it, i.e. that is not part of the game and it is game braking.

I would also suggest increasing the timer to main menu, from 15 to 25, the time it takes to self destruct.

I see PvP as an important part of Power Play; it would be a great improvement of Power Play, if you would create more opportunities for this.

 

[MAccatan]

The main disease of PvP is combat logging. As developers, I don't think you can do much about it. You have already given the option of Solo/Groups. You can however decrease the numbers of combat logging by making announcements, placing visible text about it, i.e. that is not part of the game and it is game braking.

I would also suggest increasing the timer to main menu, from 15 to 25, the time it takes to self destruct.

I see PvP as an important part of Power Play; it would be a great improvement of Power Play, if you would create more opportunities for this.

It is easy to solve combat logging. Others have done it. If you shot someone or are being shot a timer starts ticking. If you combat log the ship remains in space until the timer expires. It can be 30 seconds, 2 minutes, 5 minutes ... you can refresh the timer whenever a new hit is registered against your ship.. hell, you can have longer timers from pvp and shorter ones from NPCs. There is a way and it can all be balanced to tailor our needs.

 

[Etherimp]

Ever think about trying to not get hit in the first place, the courier is not exactly a slouch really and do not forget that shield boosters can add more shield strength overall without the heat/ammo problems of SCBs (which I believe are really meant for larger ships anyway to compensate for their size IMO). I am not sure what build my friend runs with his courier but this is a build I would contemplate for it. To my mind, SCBs seem to be overused and over stated. Similarly with HRPs really.

Sorry, but your friends build is not good for PVP and would get crushed by a combat fitted Courier.

Limpets in an attack case would add to the ship population limits and associated network traffic by necessity

No, they wouldn't. Associated network traffic?

The old you can high wake out of combat argument to avoid unwanted PvP is the age old "excuse" used by gankers, griefers, and other not nice people. If you have just been interdicted and are trying to run then without third party solutions such as Voice Attack (and assuming you can get such things working well for you - which is far from a given) then the likelihood is that selecting a system to high-wake to when you are in your target system and under attack is not going to be as easy as some like to make out (in addition there are additional concerns such as flight vector alignment, FSD recharge, and FSD disruption). The high wake to escape is not a PvP exclusive thing either.

Voice-attack is probably the worst way to select a near-by system. It's this simple:


(Pre combat)
1. Galaxy map
2. Select near-by system (more than 1 jump away)
3. "Plot Route"
4. Go into system you wish to PvP in
5. Get into PVP encounter
~~~~
(Post combat)
6. Press "O" (Next System in route)
7. Press "J" (Jump to Hyperspace)
8. Wait for charge
9. Align yourself.
10. GTHO

There, you learned something today. Press 2 keys to escape any situation.

There are some PvPers that do not know about Prismatic shields (I have heard of some courier pilots being accused of cheating because their courier survives a ramming attack - either end) while many PvE'ers may know about them if they have investigated the options of PP.

Every PVPer knows about Prismatic shields.


I'm going to stop going back and forth with you now, because you've proven that you really are clueless about PvP. Between your ship build suggestions and your assertion that "High-waking out isn't as easy as people make it out to be!". Clearly you have virtually no PvP experience in this game and therefor are unfit to carry on this discussion.

Good news is, if you want to learn some PvP, ask me for teamspeak information and you can engage in a PvP Workshop later today at 10pm GMT. Teamspeak info available upon request.

- - - - - Additional Content Posted / Auto Merge - - - - -

On top of it all, the loser pays a very severe price for each loss.

5% or less is not "A VERY SEVERE PRICE FOR EACH LOSS".

Furthermore, the barrier for entry is nil.


What ELSE do you have to spend money on this game? The only thing you can really buy is SHIPS! Once you have all of the ships, what else are you going to buy?

 

[Gédéon_Lecanard]

PVP in this game is incredibly Elite. In every single PVP hotbed you have the most powerful ships with perfect setups to engage you for no reason and without consequence. On top of it all, the loser pays a very severe price for each loss.

This type of PVP simply is not sustainable and the vast majority of any player base will end up not participating. This isn't news. Many games have failed in the past because they made PVP expensive, losses crippling and an entry barrier to it that makes most people never even consider getting into PVP.

I do not believe we're looking at a salvagable system here.

Very well put. Most so-called PvPers are actually folks in group attacking loners. That nullifies any debate about fairness and the like. This is the current reality of "PvP" in ED. Also, Being Elite is definitely not a matter of skills, but a matter of time. Just as money earnt ingame. And we don't have all the same playtime available. That's a fact.

5% or less is not "A VERY SEVERE PRICE FOR EACH LOSS".

Furthermore, the barrier for entry is nil.

What ELSE do you have to spend money on this game? The only thing you can really buy is SHIPS! Once you have all of the ships, what else are you going to buy?

Yes it is. If you actually have only slightly more than this left on your account, it is indeed. Besides, the insurance does not cover cargo loss. So yes, you're only going to buy ships. But you actually need money, for that. Not everyone is filthy rich by playing 27h/24, because not everyone can afford that much time spent on a game. Now I'm not criticising the fact that some spend much time ingame, I'm just saying that you and many other PvPers fail to understand that, and the reason why for some people, losing a single ship means a big deal.

 

[Quineloe]

5% or less is not "A VERY SEVERE PRICE FOR EACH LOSS".

Furthermore, the barrier for entry is nil.

You are incorrect on both accounts.

Of course for some people loss ceases to be a financial setback and just results in rustled jimmies. With 500 million in assets, no ship to save up for, no other means to spend credits, the 30 million rebuy on my Corvette means very little to me. Especially since in this game there are plenty of opportunities to make a lot of money in a short amount of time (whereas other games required a solid grind to make up for losses, so at least ED is ahead here)
However, that is a very tiny fraction of the playerbase. For a player in his Type 7, worth 25 million, 15 million in assets, 2 million in the cargo hold, getting destroyed is a serious setback - down 8% in total assets, 20% in current balance. It takes weeks of actual play (ie the one logged as exploration right now) to reach a point where you don't care about losing a ship anymore.

Also the notion that you can just start out with PVP in your loansidey is preposterous. The only thing you're guaranteed is to lose your starting credits to legacy fine payoff. Pirating with an early ship is nonsense. Low masslock means everyone you interdict will simply low wake away from you. Even if you apply your factor 5 because you're pirating other sidewinders results in a 25 second FSD - not much longer than high waking. Never mind that players in these ships don't carry cargo worth stealing. They're running missions or bounty hunting.

Hunting players with bounties also is impossible - either their bounty is 200cr, in which case you're a for hunting them, or they know pretty well how to stay alive.

The first thing you did in your post was talk down on another player for being to noob to properly fit a ship for PVP. That's exactly the point as well. Most players have no idea, and they're not fighting each other. If a player with no experience in PVP decides to start PVPing, he'll either hit players with no intention of fighting back and will just run or high wake, or players who are into PVP and will wipe the floor with him - learning potential is next to zero in either case. A healthy PVP environment is a pyramid with a few players at the top and a lot of players at the bottom, so the bottom row will regularly win fights against other bottom players. In ED; there's the top row and no one else. Everyone enters the bottom, and they'll then fight a top player and lose.

Feel free to debate on and on about this. Fact is in the game today PVP always involves the same players. If a PVP hotbed rises up, they're there. Because right now you can only PVP for the sake of PVP, not to actually advance in the games regular progression.

 

[GluttonyFang]

The main disease of PvP is combat logging. As developers, I don't think you can do much about it. You have already given the option of Solo/Groups. You can however decrease the numbers of combat logging by making announcements, placing visible text about it, i.e. that is not part of the game and it is game braking.

I would also suggest increasing the timer to main menu, from 15 to 25, the time it takes to self destruct.

I see PvP as an important part of Power Play; it would be a great improvement of Power Play, if you would create more opportunities for this.

I support any further punishment toward combat logging.

 

[Iskariot]

FDev, please talk to the active PVP community.

One might ask the same for the active PvE community.
So in fact FD should listen to everybody .

I think they already do so, there are numerous tweaks that are implemented as a result of that.

I do not want FD to listen too much though. There are too many conflicting views anyway. And buckets full of whining.
FD should just take from it what they want and create their own game according to their own vision.

So far I am quite happy, although I have a long list of wishes like everybody else.

 

[lenna]

Sorry, but your friends build is not good for PVP and would get crushed by a combat fitted Courier.

Read my post again , I said I did not know the EXACT build my friend was using and put forward a sample build I might use in a PvE setting. The precise weapon load out I might use in practice would likely to vary from what I put forward, but in general I think you missed my point. Compare all the stats of the courier with other ships of similar or slightly larger size and in player hands it can be fitted out effectively enough. It is far from a dead duck or broken.

No, they wouldn't. Associated network traffic?

Positions of the drones, would need to be sent from every drone user's machine to every play engaging in the combat. That would almost certainly require more upload bandwidth on the controlling terminal. Most of the time where drones are involved the game can cheat to a degree. The point was though that in order for such drones to be effective they would need to be used in sufficient numbers hence the bandwidth concerns (I know at least one player who has trouble with heavily PC populated areas due to upload bandwidth and their level of internet is not exactly unusual for the UK as I understand it)

Voice-attack is probably the worst way to select a near-by system. It's this simple:


(Pre combat)
1. Galaxy map
2. Select near-by system (more than 1 jump away)
3. "Plot Route"
4. Go into system you wish to PvP in
5. Get into PVP encounter
~~~~
(Post combat)
6. Press "O" (Next System in route)
7. Press "J" (Jump to Hyperspace)
8. Wait for charge
9. Align yourself.
10. GTHO

There, you learned something today. Press 2 keys to escape any situation.

You missed the point I was making, you are assuming that the person has time to navigate their menus and change their navigation options at the moment combat begins, which is not always the case and was my point. I know how to play the game and you came across as a condescending stubborn mule rather than someone helpful.

Every PVPer knows about Prismatic shields.

There have been at least some that do not, but the point overall is that PvP is not some magic bullet that grants you special knowledge and in fact in some cases a PvPer can be just as ignorant about certain aspects of the game as anyone else.

I'm going to stop going back and forth with you now, because you've proven that you really are clueless about PvP. Between your ship build suggestions and your assertion that "High-waking out isn't as easy as people make it out to be!". Clearly you have virtually no PvP experience in this game and therefor are unfit to carry on this discussion.

Good news is, if you want to learn some PvP, ask me for teamspeak information and you can engage in a PvP Workshop later today at 10pm GMT. Teamspeak info available upon request.

- - - - - Additional Content Posted / Auto Merge - - - - -



5% or less is not "A VERY SEVERE PRICE FOR EACH LOSS".

Furthermore, the barrier for entry is nil.


What ELSE do you have to spend money on this game? The only thing you can really buy is SHIPS! Once you have all of the ships, what else are you going to buy?

TBH I would sooner stick my head in an active nuclear reactor than get involved in PvP in Open at this point. There are far too many idiots playing PvP in Open to my mind, that is not to say all PvPers in Open are idiots it is just that some are based on the anecdotal evidence I have noted in the forums (and from other sources). Besides which PvP is pointless to my mind, it adds nothing to my enjoyment of the game directly. I would get just as much enjoyment out of engaging the AI. Also ED is not just about combat which based on your comments seems to be all you think there is.

 

[lenna]

One might ask the same for the active PvE community.
So in fact FD should listen to everybody .

I think they already do so, there are numerous tweaks that are implemented as a result of that.

I do not want FD to listen too much though. There are too many conflicting views anyway. And buckets full of whining.
FD should just take from it what they want and create their own game according to their own vision.

So far I am quite happy, although I have a long list of wishes like everybody else.

+Rep... ditto here and I think you got to the crux of the point I have been trying to make.

 

[Etherimp]

Read my post again , I said I did not know the EXACT build my friend was using and put forward a sample build I might use in a PvE setting. The precise weapon load out I might use in practice would likely to vary from what I put forward, but in general I think you missed my point. Compare all the stats of the courier with other ships of similar or slightly larger size and in player hands it can be fitted out effectively enough. It is far from a dead duck or broken.

The build you gave me is horrible for PVE as well.

2 point defense?

3 gimbaled pulse lasers?



I'll just say that anybody who can't afford a 5% rebuy on their ship should not be flying that ship.

I'll also say that it takes maybe 5 hours of playtime a week to make 50,000,000 a week from Power-play.. Or maybe 5 hours a week to make 50,000,000 from bounty hunting in ALD space.


Furthermore, the accusations that "PvPers are groups ganking loners" is absolutely wrong. Not saying it doesn't happen, but that's not the "MAJORITY OF PVP".


https://drive.google.com/folderview?id=0B_GRHrlAbOCQTXdGVXFmX05JU1U&usp=sharing

My friend recorded our PvP workshop last night. Enjoy.

 

[tawittle]

+rep to OP

FD need to get serious about pvp if the game is going to get popular.

its not a matter of "PVE vs pvp". Multiplayer games attract larger player-bases than single player games. That's just a fact.

 

[lenna]

...

Gimballed lasers have their flaws but they can work fine despite countermeasures... Fixed weapons on the other hand are generally only any good for pot shotting and short range/close quarters depending on manoeuvrability and speed factors.
---
As for point defence, they have served me well in PvE against missiles which the AI do tend to use under various circumstances.
---
And pay attention to the other point I made, the EXACT WEAPON LOADOUT may vary.
---
In short, if you think gimballed weapons are useless in PvE (which is what your post implies) then you still need to learn more about the game and should not be advising anyone on load outs.
---
WRT gankers, it is not just them but the general attitudes of some PvPers as well... there are MANY reasons why I think Open is basically a waste of space (pun intended), and no it is not a general anti-PvP thing. The idiots I referred to earlier are not just the gankers/griefers and I do not have the time nor the inclination to go into the details.
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Also, I have better things to do with my time than watch PvP/PvE videos/streams. I find such things about as fun as watching paint dry in the main, I tend to only look at such things if it is demonstrating some funky/good special effects or graphics improvements.

 

[Etherimp]

Gimballed lasers have their flaws but they can work fine despite countermeasures... Fixed weapons on the other hand are generally only any good for pot shotting and short range/close quarters depending on manoeuvrability and speed factors.

Uhhh.. Fixed weapons are effective at longer ranges than gimbaled weapons. If you have problems hitting with Fixed weapons it's because you do not know how to fly properly or you are not managing your pips properly.

As for point defence, they have served me well in PvE against missiles which the AI do tend to use under various circumstances.

1. Missiles only affect you when your shields are down. Your shields should never be down on a Courier. If they go down, you should be gone.
2. If you insist on having a point defense, 1 is more than enough. The 2nd is superfluous.
3. You're using a Point Defense where you could be using a Shield Booster, which would keep your shields up longer which means more sustain.

In short, if you think gimballed weapons are useless in PvE (which is what your post implies) then you still need to learn more about the game and should not be advising anyone on load outs.

Nobody said Gimbaled weapons are useless. You're running THREE GIMBALED PULSES.

1. Three pulses drains too much capacitor to maintain constant DPS on a target.
2. The entire point of gimbals is more time-on-target, but if your capacitor is drained half the time, then there's no point in using gimbals.
3. 2 fixed will do more damage than 3 gimbals due to DPS vs capacitor usage.


Really, just stop. You don't have anything to contribute to this discussion.