This post so much.
- Status
This post so much.
CQC isn't popular because it's an off-shoot of the main game. The entire community in this game is relatively small and this doesn't have the following to sustain 4 different communities (Open, XBox, Private, CQC.)
Also, you do realize that MOST PvPers ALSO do a lot of PVE?
I undermine, I HazRes, I explore, I PvP, I do missions.
Last edited:
PvPer are people who pvp in CQC AND in open. There looks to be roughly the same amount of people doing both.(as in not a whole lot) I am listening but I have a much different opinion.
*Sneezes*
Huh? What? Where?
Oh no, this thread... let me guess... without reading through the comments... there's going to be naming and shaming going on somewhere...
*Proceeds to read through the thread*
- - - - - Additional Content Posted / Auto Merge - - - - -
Oh hi Doc, not often I see you here
Edit:
Oooo, no naming and shaming so far
As a reply to the OP, The Code is a Triple Elite group, so we do talk to the employees of FD about PvP elements of the game and give our opinions about the state of things when inquired.
Also, I did stand in the 1.5/2.0 beta feedback forum through night and day yelling on the top of my lung about some of the balancing decisions to help the developers realize some of their flaws in balancing. What worries me about this community is the amount of people that throw out opinions that severely lack credibility when examined and questioned masking to be credible source of feedback to alter the game with painfully obvious private interests that does nothing but throws the balance of the game even further off track.
So if there's any worry about violent take-overs, it's the PvP crowd that needs to watch out for certain members of the PvE crowd. Yes, I am aware that categorizing people/fragmenting the community is a terrible thing, but this game brought that upon itself. Thus the only hope is that both sides have some courtesy in terms of compromising and understanding, yes I know that's expecting too much on the internet.
Edit2:
Oh oh, also, FD, I am convinced, after Sandro's humor post that made me fall off my chair, that you guys do genuinely try and have the courage to go to the extreme of things to test your game and be creative with things, and I appreciate that. So I will be honest in my feedback toward the balancing pass you did with 1.5/2.0 in public:
Small ships now stack HRP, HSL, and use SR to no end, with Viper MKIV being the most notorious in its cancer build. Courier is made useless from the previous meta where it had shields/SCBs to protect it, now it is paper, again, for that its armor is severely lacking. This increased the gap between PvP and PvE fit ships even further.
The king of medium ships are now FDL, FAS, and Clipper is dying out other than... you guessed it, cancer HRP stacking build. FDL can utilize shield or hull tanking, but FAS and Clipper can only use hull tanking to be competitive in PvP.
And oh, Python, it struggled in the previous meta and it struggles even more in the current meta. In the previous meta, due to its speed and lack of total shield value/shield recovery speed, not many brought it to battle. Now it can only hull tank, but it is a relatively large target and slow, on top of that, so even less people use them now.
Large ships' shields still hold up, which is a good thing, but I guess making them viable for hull tanking is just impossible with the current module target system.
Overall, a few points:
Variety increased overall, slightly, but now the meta is SR in PvP for medium/small ships and large ships remains shields and SCBs.
SR can still be countered with enough distance and rails, so it isn't too bad, but it seems too accessibly to me, it drags out the fight even longer than the previous shield/SCB meta. People using SR builds will use MC/low heat producing weapons to reduce heat output to prolong the fight.
The largest point is that the attempt to make PvE ships and PvP ships more similar has definitely backfired, and backfired hard. The gap between the two visibly increased.
Missiles are a mess, two full salvo of packhounds did 1% hull damage to a hull stacking Viper MkIV. When I tested it, I facepawed so hard I knocked myself out for the remainder of the day. Please make missiles useful, equip the station with PD if you are afraid of griefers.
I hope the next balancing pass take these things into consideration more or less.
Last edited:
Do you know many of those? I can talk only for my clan (RoA), consisting of at least 20-30 active PvP players, but virtually noone of us is even remotely interested in CQC.
We bought Elite, because we want to play Elite. Even though CQC uses some Elite Assets, is a completey different game which has absolutely nothing to do with ED. A game nobody really ever wanted, which is probably the reason CQC is currently in its last breaths.
The only thing FDEV should do is to build the game in their vision with diversity and depth in mind.
I mirror this sentiment to an extent.
CQC and main game PvP are two different games. CQC is about camping at power-ups and throwing your ship vaguely into your opponent's direction to have gimballed weapons disguised as fixed weapons do all the work. Sure, some might enjoy this kind of gameplay, but I personally find it shallow and I can play any typical FPS if I really wanted to play the type of gameplay CQC offers.
I already have my question in terms of the depth of combat the main game has since it lacks long range artillery/tactical weapons. Things like smoke-screen, anti-beam depth charges, ECM that denies sensors the ability to pick up targets in a designated area, etc.
Then CQC strips out even more of the already relatively simplistic combat just makes me wonder how did CQC ever can be considered a part of the Elite Dangerous I purchased. Sure, some people enjoy it, and I'm glad that they do, but I think there are many better substitutes for the CQC kind of gameplay if people wanted it.
Last edited:
This. Exactly. CQC is Quake II in Space, Elite Dangerous is more like Dayz in space. (In some respects. Open world, blah blah.)
Anyway, we're digressing.. Here's the point:
1. No PvPer wants to ruin the fun of the PVE guys.
2. FDev has shown time and time again they do not know how to balance Elite for Multi-player. (See Powerplay for perfect examples of this. ALD and Hudson = Extremely overpowered.)
3. Assuming FDev DID seek out the experience and opinion of the PvP community, they could at least listen and implement what they feel is appropriate and ignore what they don't feel is balanced/appropriate or what they think would hurt the game/PVE.
I didn't name any specifics in my original post, but considering how many people are saying "IT WILL RUIN PVEEEEEE", I'll make a few suggestions:
1. Make the Effective HP of SCB's and Hull Reinf the same across all Internal sizes. That is to say, Size 1 SCB's and Size 1 Hull Reinforcements provide the same EHP, size 2's the same, etc. Reduce heat on SCB's SLIGHTLY.. (I said slightly! You shouldn't _need_ an additional utility slot in order to use something! That's like someone selling a car that will over-heat if you don't buy a separate car to spray water on it every time you rev the engine.)
2. All the weapons in the game should be available for every hard-point size. Why are there no Size 4 Torpedoes (that fire 4 torpedoes instead of 1-2?).. Why are there no Size 3/4 Railguns? Why can't you get a Large Multicannon? Why can't you get a small PA? This stuff is not hard to implement or balance.
3. Attack Limpets which use Attack Limpet Control, and can be shot down by Point Defense or stunned/disabled by ECM.
4. EWar.. Or SOME kind of support ships/modules. (Radar scramblers, targetting scramblers, some kind of tackle, etc.)
5. Ammo Racks which can carry additional ammo for modules such as missiles.
6. Big ships = less maneuverable, small ships = more maneuverable.
7. An internal compartment that temporarily gives a boost to your after-burners, or allows for a 1 time instant FSD charge.
8. An internal compartment or weapon that can slow ships. (Maybe "sticky mines" that add excessive mass to the ship, effecting maneuverability/speed for a relatively short (10 sec?) duration if they stick to the hull. More mines stuck = more slowing)
These are just some random ideas, and I'm aware many of them have been brought up by others.
Right now, the Asp is a not very good PvP ship.. That is to say, it's out-performed by almost everything. However, imagine if it could be fit as a support ship with attack limpets.
I do not see how any of these changes would "RUIN PVEE!1@!!!1!eleventyone"
Last edited:
El Dragoon!
Banned
never going to happen
First and foremost- Yes there are some problems with some ships getting buffed and others nerfed. I have played nearly every aspect of this game. PVP, PVE, trading, mining, and exploring. I'm working on getting better at all of these because I choose too. Not because someone decided for me what is the best way to play.
That being said the only real danger with this discussion is that you are recommending only the hardcore dedicated PVP crowd should be listened to. Instead we already have an in game mechanic set up to identify individual commanders eligible to provide input. The commanders rank. The core fundamental aspect of this game is you earn it. Trading, exploring, or combat you earn it.
If you want the developers to talk with a core group then have them talk with the Elite commanders of each aspect of gameplay. You want PVP to be better, ok, but I bet there is a trader out there that wants turret weapons that will shoot out your canopy in 6 seconds so you'll leave him alone. We all have ideas about how to make something better for our personal benefit. Don't ask or expect the Devs to only listen to one group. Sets a bad precedent for making an outstanding experience one sided for one group while the rest suffer.
IMO change your recommendation to have the Devs listen to the ELITE commanders. You can even divide the Combat Commanders into PVP and PVE. Just don't try to force them to listen to one group at the expense of others.
That being said the only real danger with this discussion is that you are recommending only the hardcore dedicated PVP crowd should be listened to. Instead we already have an in game mechanic set up to identify individual commanders eligible to provide input. The commanders rank. The core fundamental aspect of this game is you earn it. Trading, exploring, or combat you earn it.
If you want the developers to talk with a core group then have them talk with the Elite commanders of each aspect of gameplay. You want PVP to be better, ok, but I bet there is a trader out there that wants turret weapons that will shoot out your canopy in 6 seconds so you'll leave him alone. We all have ideas about how to make something better for our personal benefit. Don't ask or expect the Devs to only listen to one group. Sets a bad precedent for making an outstanding experience one sided for one group while the rest suffer.
IMO change your recommendation to have the Devs listen to the ELITE commanders. You can even divide the Combat Commanders into PVP and PVE. Just don't try to force them to listen to one group at the expense of others.
The devs already listen to the PVE community.. So, no, I'm not recommending ONLY the hardcore dedicated PvPers get a voice.. I'm asking for them to have a VOICE AT ALL.
Elite rank means literally nothing.
Someone can fly to the core and back in an Asp, never interact with another player in the game, get Elite in Exploration, and not know a single thing about ship balance.
Someone can trade Palladium all day every day in a Type 9, in solo play, and never interact with another player, get Elite in Trade, and not know a single thing about ship balance.
Someone can AFK in a combat zone all day in Solo play with an Anaconda with nothing but beam turrets and 4 pips in shields, and they can get Elite Rank easily, again, without ever having to interact with another player or know anything about ship balance.
On the other hand: NO. ONE. CAN. PVP. WITHOUT. KNOWING. WHICH. SHIPS. AND. MODULES. ARE. GOOD. AND. BAD. PERIOD.
Last edited:
While I do agree that the developers should be listening to everyone, there will be credibility issues. No credible person in the right mind will think that a turret weapon in the way you described is ever a good idea and is balanced, the same goes for the PvP crowd. Separating reasonable and credible suggestions from those that are not isn't that hard.
Also, you do realize how easily people can get to Elite in Combat/Elite in Trader/Elite in Exploration, right?
To name a few issues.
The shenanigans that happened at Lugh combat CG with the Capital Ship easily made people Elite in Combat.
Robigo/Long range smuggling is a joke and made people Elite in Traders
Exploration was buffed and now just fly toward the central/neutron stars and you'll get your Elite rank in exploration in no time.
And these are just a few obvious ones, and I'm not allowed to post exploits on this forum so I won't expose all of them. Not to mention the laughable amount of cheating that happened in the 32-bit structure of the game with memory manipulation.
Ranks
Mean
Nothing
1. This is the sole reason I stay away from Open most of the time, I did not even dare to enter Sagittarius A my first time in either open or private because of this reason. People are douchebags. Will always be douchebags, and this likely minority of douchebags create such a toxic enviorment that for those that do not wish to be griefed or dragged into conflict and try to get away like a sickly gazzelle have no other choice than to be fodder for these douchenozzles.
I do love me some PVP occasionally, I love combat in elite, it feels like a fight in space should be. I have even taken on huge ships that should not be in my ballpark at all, anacondas or clippers, in my tiny little scout, and I won (No turrets yay). But if I attack someone whos a player, and they have a ship weaker than mine, or plead me to not kill them (in any game) I show them that mercy, and I let them go. I do so in the hopes that they will learn and take that with them and perhaps return the favor, and then next one does that, and in the long term it will help reduce douchenozzles who you see destroy other players months of gameplay just to be that, douchenozzles. And yes, some might just return with their mates to give me a beating. But I do not stick around one place for long enough for that to happen, I'm speedy, and constantly on the move, as is a good tactic to avoid that problem of "me and my boyz gonna rek u now m8".
This is why I personally love ED, that it allows me to choose where I want to play, and how I want to play, I have read to many 'horror' stories about peoples months and weeks of gameplay destroyed by one single moron, that I choose to avoid Open Play in Elite, I avoided it from day one. It is a classic tale of the few ruin the fun for the majority. and I mentioned in a different thread, I do not want to as much as make myself even the slightest of targets or give these morons the slightest of hint of attention ingame.
To say no PVPer wants to ruin the gameplay of a PVE'er is about the same as to say no person driving a car ever will ever speed. We know most people wont speed, but the douchenozzles will.
2. never really done powerplay, it just increased the interdictions to an intensly predictable way and made the game un-fun when I had to deal with it, especially when it was not random, happened every system jumped to, it became thedious and annoying. I guess that counts to being implemented in an annoying way too?
3. PVP and PVP are always intertwined in games, and games that allow both in the same instance are bound to be, and to have balancing issues, ED is just one of hundreds of games where balance is an issue, and just another game in the line where these things are discussed up, down, sideways, in quantum states, in 4th and 5th dimensions... you get what I mean, their talked about till people turn all sorts of colors.
The only thing I could think of though would be that smaller ships, should have the possibility to be immensly fast, and bigger ships should be more snaily. Make a smaller ship be able to outrun a bigger one with somewhat of ease (as long as the bigger ship does not shoot the appropriate parts on the ship), it is fragile, and die within seconds if not. But when a massive FDL outmanouvers something small and nimble and obliterates it, it feels off. In the same sense my scout kills a conda without turrets I suppose, even though that felt like doing a dungeon boss alone, with low level gear, that was broken, where one wrong step would mean I was dead, and I could not screw up at all for that half an hour.
Last edited:
I can testify that comparing PvP TE groups to PvE ones, the former is close to none in terms of numbers.
Last edited:
1. This is the sole reason I stay away from Open most of the time, I did not even dare to enter Sagittarius A my first time in either open or private because of this reason. People are douchebags. Will always be douchebags, and this likely minority of douchebags create such a toxic enviorment that for those that do not wish to be griefed or dragged into conflict and try to get away like a sickly gazzelle have no other choice than to be fodder for these douchenozzles.
I do love me some PVP occasionally, I love combat in elite, it feels like a fight in space should be. I have even taken on huge ships that should not be in my ballpark at all, anacondas or clippers, in my tiny little scout, and I won (No turrets yay). But if I attack someone whos a player, and they have a ship weaker than mine, or plead me to not kill them (in any game) I show them that mercy, and I let them go. I do so in the hopes that they will learn and take that with them and perhaps return the favor, and then next one does that, and in the long term it will help reduce douchenozzles who you see destroy other players months of gameplay just to be that, douchenozzles. And yes, some might just return with their mates to give me a beating. But I do not stick around one place for long enough for that to happen, I'm speedy, and constantly on the move, as is a good tactic to avoid that problem of "me and my boyz gonna rek u now m8".
This is why I personally love ED, that it allows me to choose where I want to play, and how I want to play, I have read to many 'horror' stories about peoples months and weeks of gameplay destroyed by one single moron, that I choose to avoid Open Play in Elite, I avoided it from day one. It is a classic tale of the few ruin the fun for the majority. and I mentioned in a different thread, I do not want to as much as make myself even the slightest of targets or give these morons the slightest of hint of attention ingame.
To say no PVPer wants to ruin the gameplay of a PVE'er is about the same as to say no person driving a car ever will ever speed. We know most people wont speed, but the douchenozzles will.
2. never really done powerplay, it just increased the interdictions to an intensly predictable way and made the game un-fun when I had to deal with it, especially when it was not random, happened every system jumped to, it became thedious and annoying. I guess that counts to being implemented in an annoying way too?
3. PVP and PVP are always intertwined in games, and games that allow both in the same instance are bound to be, and to have balancing issues, ED is just one of hundreds of games where balance is an issue, and just another game in the line where these things are discussed up, down, sideways, in quantum states, in 4th and 5th dimensions... you get what I mean, their talked about till people turn all sorts of colors.
The only thing I could think of though would be that smaller ships, should have the possibility to be immensly fast, and bigger ships should be more snaily. Make a smaller ship be able to outrun a bigger one with somewhat of ease (as long as the bigger ship does not shoot the appropriate parts on the ship), it is fragile, and die within seconds if not. But when a massive FDL outmanouvers something small and nimble and obliterates it, it feels off. In the same sense my scout kills a conda without turrets I suppose, even though that felt like doing a dungeon boss alone, with low level gear, that was broken, where one wrong step would mean I was dead, and I could not screw up at all for that half an hour.
Every Saturday at 10pm GMT we have PvP training open to all. You should come out to open and learn to pvp. We're not grievers attacking traders and camping CG's. We're mainly Powerplay commanders and we engage against other PP commanders. Our class last Saturday was about an hour to an hour and a half and had about 20+ people show up. After the official "class" stopped, about 8-12 of us stuck around and practiced wing PvP for about 6-7 hours. Some great fun. You'd be surprised how long a stealth viper/DBS/DBE can last vs a Python or Conda.. We even had 4 Stealth Vipers go up against a fully PvP fit Corvette. Spoiler alert - the Corvette lost.
ts.tgpnet.org is our teamspeak.
So go for it! Flip a system with PvP...expand a faction...make millions of credits/hour! yep...not happening..the only thing that is truly rewarded in the game is the PvE chasing of trophies...aka 'grinding'. Open play <=> PvP...it is just a space where it can happen. This is the fallacy many in the PvP crowd lives under.
I do not disagree with you that PvP can be fun...just that it has very little affect on the galaxy around us.
AS you point out this out there really is no need to have some huge pow wow with the devs. They have listened to the PvP community to balance the ships. If they are still not balanced to anyone's satisfaction then please open a thread and give the numbers.
Last edited:
Watch, someone will say that this is a trap and they [insert common profanity]ing hate [insert derogatory terms here] PvPers and PvPers are all [insert more derogatory terms here] monsters that are real psychos and criminals in real life.
*Chuckles in the background*
Actually, groups offering training to folks makes sense...of course that training should be first to 1 ring of shields or some limit to the damage to ship...but planned PvP like this makes more sense than just having people blow others up.
Thank God I'm not the only one! I've been saying that for ages now. Never had adrenaline pumping from a video game, and doubt I ever will. Never took any real sense of pride in my gaming skills either, anymore than I'm proud of my leet massage getting or movie watching skills.
Well, if want to play the relative game, we can argue anything can produce thrill for certain people.
Either people can be proud in any skill or people can't be proud with any skill at all, pick one .-.
- Status