Fer de lance and expected python nerf
- Thread starter Lyker
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you sir doesn't make sense.
A T9 is, whatever you might be saying, better than a T7 for trading.
In the same way, a python is way more lethal than a sidy.
The "progression" is there wether you like it or not.
The Python isn't too strong compared to fighters or whatever. It's too strong compared to everything. It's a big ship that moves like a med/small one, has the firepower and defence of a big ship and one of the biggest trading capacities; something has to give, and the logical thing is the movement in this case, and the shields that were as strong as or stronger than the biggest (also hybrid) ship.
what is bad with lots to learn? there are already plenty of dumbed down arena games for the purpose of pvp
The only way to hurt someone with an turret is by throwing it at him
Monomolecular materials come to mind
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The only thing I learned today is that in the future i will shoot at everything coming close and worry about paying of the bounty later
I think there are, in an ideal world a few things that should happen before the python rebalance. Namely:
..Shield cell fix. At the moment the ability to carry SC's are masking the true strengths and weaknesses of the ships.
..Turret AI fixes. If large ships are to have lower speed/agility then carrying turrets should be more viable
..Multi-ship owning made easier. ATM I way prefer multi-role ships, simply because it's a huge pain in the bum to swap if I feel like some combat, trading or exploring. Make it easier to own specialist ships and demand for multi-role will decrease.
..More ships. Balance once there are more ships to fill in the gaps. Re-purposing a ship with nothing else to fill the gap seems to be taking something away from the player. Sure, re-purpose but don't leave a void.
Atm it feels like, balancing now is premature. Measuring how effective it will be will be skewed by other factors and as can be seen by forum reaction changing stats of any ship, especially those that take significant time to obtain is a very tricky thing to do. Better to change the baseline for everything, measure and then re-balance based on the foundation
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I agree with some of what you say, namely shield cells and turrets. Shield cells are getting a nerf, whether it will be enough is yet to be seen, but chaff needs a nerf too. If people use 2 x chaff launchers they can effectively have 100% defense from gimball/turret weapons.
The rest of what you say are issues that will be resolved in time. The game has only been released for around 6 weeks. They are't repurposing the python. It can still do everything. It just wont be able to dogfight like a fighter.
The game is focused on choice. So make a choice. If you want a more agile ship, fly something else. I don't want to keep repeating myself, but FD already said they reason for the nerf is that they don't want one ship that can do everything well.
Without a nerf, the python can. This doesn't leave a void, it just means players need to make a decision, what they want their ship to be good at so they can bring the right ship. Not just pick one ship and do everything in it. Forever. Its just crap design if that's allowed to happen. If people can't see that, its because they choose not to. Probably because they own a python, or soon will.
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Just deselect your target and you have fixed weapons & chaff does not affect them anymore. Wish people would stop saying this about chaff vs gimbals.
and the guys that are constantly attacked by these flies and are never able to eliminate them.........they interdict you to death
I agree. But at the moment, owning multiple ships is a pain and multi-role ships at every price point are too strong if FD want people to go the multi-ship route. Cobra is as good as viper, Asp is just the best ship in the game on a price/for what it does basis. If the player base is being directed towards multi-ship and specialist roles then they need an incentive to do just that. Re-balancing all multi-role ships and making it easier to use multi-ships is the way to do it, not drive people to fly cheaper ships because there's nothing any more capable for them to spend their money on.
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There's also a lot of psychology wrapped up in this discussion. There's an inbuilt feeling in us that says if I pay a lot of money I should get something a lot better and more capable than I used to. The 'capitalist' in us says 'yup so you should'. The 'communist' says no, we want everyone to be equal regardless of wealth.
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Which is kinda odd really as I always saw Elite as an expression of Darwinian capitalism.
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i second that
problem is, after the python nerf, it will also need minimum gimbals to keep a viper and cobra in sight for more than a second, if the pilot knows what he does.........i dont think it will be viable for fixed weapons anymore after the 17% reduction of turn rate, acceleration and speed.....
finally FD takes skill out of this game if they nerf chaff.....on the other hand it renders the python useless for skillful play with that nerf.....
this all is not consistent
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As was said before, it's MMO thinking. They worked hard, grinded, did all those utterly un-fun things in order to get the proverbial Sword of a Thousand Truths. Countless man-hours were wasted running trade routes in solo in order to get the "best" ship in the game, so gosh-durned it, it should slay anything that so much as looks at the hull.
By that logic then they need to BUFF the Type-9, Type-7 and Type-6. It is pretty crap that those multi purposes ships can out perform the hauler ships. Performance in trade is based on profit per hour not individual sale sizes. In my Python I can do 2 runs in the time it takes a Type-9 to do 1 run. This means I have no reason to own a type-9. This gets even worse when you consider an anaconda which is the clear winner of the hauler wars until we get more ships. The nerf to the Python is simple knee jerk to forum complaining. If I see this keep up from the devs then I will leave this game so fast. I spent 10 years experiencing that in WoW and I will not do it again.
-33% base shields and -17% to THRUST, ACCELERATION, AND SPEED means the ship was not tested well enough in beta. I am starting to lose faith in Frontier Developments. I would have been fine if they changed the numbers saying the engines giving math reasons, in-game fluff reason, or something else besides... it is just too good. Damn right it is too good at 200mil to properly outfit and a 6-10million rebuy cost. I better be a beast at that price point.
@Mike Evans you should be ashamed of yourself for your lack of emotional intelligence. It is never appropriate for the developers to behave in the manner which you did earlier in this thread. You owe us the community an apology.
-33% base shields and -17% to THRUST, ACCELERATION, AND SPEED means the ship was not tested well enough in beta. I am starting to lose faith in Frontier Developments. I would have been fine if they changed the numbers saying the engines giving math reasons, in-game fluff reason, or something else besides... it is just too good. Damn right it is too good at 200mil to properly outfit and a 6-10million rebuy cost. I better be a beast at that price point.
@Mike Evans you should be ashamed of yourself for your lack of emotional intelligence. It is never appropriate for the developers to behave in the manner which you did earlier in this thread. You owe us the community an apology.
FD makes a fool with this Nerf!
Attack with 5 canon ships a destroyer and after 10 minutes the fight
finished and the destroyer continues cozy!
Such an expensive ship like the Python should never of a small ship, like a
Cobra Viper or be destroyed, otherwise the balance is a joke.
Even the cost of hull damage exceed the value of these vessels.
With my Viper and Racke tablets Destroy I in 30 seconds a python that 150 million
Credit costs, a shame for such a game.
And once I have no success, I still can not run away comfortably
and the Python sits on Hull damage with 800,000 to 900,000 cr.
An absolute nonsense!
Attack with 5 canon ships a destroyer and after 10 minutes the fight
finished and the destroyer continues cozy!
Such an expensive ship like the Python should never of a small ship, like a
Cobra Viper or be destroyed, otherwise the balance is a joke.
Even the cost of hull damage exceed the value of these vessels.
With my Viper and Racke tablets Destroy I in 30 seconds a python that 150 million
Credit costs, a shame for such a game.
And once I have no success, I still can not run away comfortably
and the Python sits on Hull damage with 800,000 to 900,000 cr.
An absolute nonsense!
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I am happy that balancing goes on within ED, but after working my way up to a Python and buying it based on its capabilities at the time of purchase, will we have the opportunity to sell it back at no loss if the proposed and implemented changes are not what we expected or want, this is particularly annoying when new ships are made available that I would have preferred to purchase over the ones already in existence which match my role requirements better , I can however justify this down to new models coming out and trading in the old one,with the new model matching those requirements, but not post purchase "rebalancing" without an option to opt out or get my cash back in the name of fairness, imagine buying that Ferrari and then told a month or so later that it's far too good and you will need to have some downgrades to slow it down a bit, you would want a refund right, or at least the option for one? 
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I am happy that balancing goes on within ED, but after working my way up to a Python and buying it based on its capabilities at the time of purchase, will we have the opportunity to sell it back at no loss if the proposed and implemented changes are not what we expected or want, this is particularly annoying when new ships are made available that I would have preferred to purchase over the ones already in existence which match my role requirements better , I can however justify this down to new models coming out and trading in the old one,with the new model matching my role requirements better, but not post purchase "rebalancing" without an option to opt out or get my cash back in the name of fairness, imagine buying that Ferrari and then told a month or so later that it's far too good and you will need to have some downgrades to slow it down a bit, you would want a refund right, or at least the option for one?
I agree with this 100% but did not want to include it my post to keep it focused. Will there be a time period after the nerf that Python owners are able to sell their ship at no loss?
On a side note, as more people get into Anacondas and Viper start complaining about those should we expect a similar nerf? If the devs are going to be controlled by whiners who do not want to trade in the game should we expect nerfs? Should we expect any form of long term stability in this game? Should I stop playing in combat and just do solo trade while the devs figure out how to run a multiplayer game with competitive pvp? I need faith in FD that will make their game instead of oopsies we made things too strong once those that put in the effort to get it have it?
Bigger ships are expensive because they are big, not because they are a "Level 90 Legendary Sword of Doom +100500 Fire Damage". Lots of bonuses come with the size and the cost (bigger guns, thicker hull, more cargo, ...), that's what you get for the money, not the ability to "press X to win". That said, bigger ships could definitely use a profit buff or a repair cost reduction, to make maintenance more manageable.
I kinda disagree about the apology part. Of course it was somewhat "unprofessional", but when someone is being a , it's no wonder that a guy can lose his temper for a moment. Geez, people, we're all human beings, learn to forgive.
BTW, the devs shouldn't be "controlled by whiners", and I don't think they are now - kill/death statistics for ship types probably can be calculated from the game's logs/data, and if some ships stand out radically, they get a stat tweak. That's how many MMOs work. Also, it's kinda stupid to expect the game balance being perfect right from the start - no online game has perfect balance from the very beginning.
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