If they have to Balance to the tune of -33% base (whatever the base number is WE DO NOT KNOW TELL US DAMN IT!!) and -17% thrust, acceleration AND HOLY CRAP AND speed. That is not balancing that is a rush job and not properly testing. Pure and simple I will no longer support game companies that constantly balance and rebalance. Get it right in test and tell us what the model is and let player skill take it the rest of the way. Right now I am seeing incompetence in Frontier Developments. They have no excuse because there is no publisher forcing their hand. The reason for self publishing was to give them the time they need to get it right. Get it right then release otherwise I am going to take my cash shop money and interest else where. I will not suffer the sings and arrows of outrageous balancing over and over and over ever again.
Fer de lance and expected python nerf
- Thread starter Lyker
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If they have to Balance to the tune of -33% base (whatever the base number is WE DO NOT KNOW TELL US DAMN IT!!) and -17% thrust, acceleration AND HOLY CRAP AND speed. That is not balancing that is a rush job and not properly testing. Pure and simple I will no longer support game companies that constantly balance and rebalance. Get it right in test and tell us what the model is and let player skill take it the rest of the way. Right now I am seeing incompetence in Frontier Developments. They have no excuse because there is no publisher forcing their hand. The reason for self publishing was to give them the time they need to get it right. Get it right then release otherwise I am going to take my cash shop money and interest else where. I will not suffer the sings and arrows of outrageous balancing over and over and over ever again.
No. It is FD dictating the winds of change. Like, naturally. And honestly, I am much more comfortable with that than any forum poll having the final word on such matters.
No, because it serves no purpose. The devs have repeatedly stated they will make, change, add and remove as they see fit. this has been their policy since day 1, and it is something which the community has always supported. DB and co independently making the game as they think Elite should be in the 21th century. Until ofcourse they do something someone doesn't like, then those people start complaining, and worse, personally insulting devs and players. Really, this change has nothing to do with 'vocal minorities', or whiners, or jealeousy or whatever. The devs have looked at how this ship is being used, decided that the stats do not meet the purpose as THEY think it should be and changed it. Building a whole narrative around it with evil viper pilots is based on nothing and serves no purpose.
Oddnoun: do you hope to actually archieve something by repeatedly insulting the devs or are you just venting steam?
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right....-17% speed/acceleration/turn rate makes it MUCH worse than the bulky, fat asp.......look at the sleek, full of big thrusters design of the python and compare it with the VW-bully design of the asp and tell me the design message of each ship....
then look at the numbers and tell me, whats wrong now!
for what do i pay 10 times the price for a stock python over a stock asp and 4 times the price when decked out if the only advantage are some bigger guns and more cargo?! and the bigger guns do not count anymore after the turn-nerf....i cannot aim them anyway without going for skillfree gimbals and turrets. then this game turns out to be EVE.....click to win
as said....this is not a skill-based game atm......except when similar ships fight each other and all ran out of shield cells. THEN the skill-game starts. before that, its only, who presses the cell button in time......
but then, the other just runs and jumps out......its so unsatisfying
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The Asp is a re-purposed military scout ship; it actually makes sense for it to be a bit quick actually (and in Frontier, it was one of the highest acceleration ships in the game; only some of the small fighters and 'special' ships went faster).
The Python in it's description in E: D is this: Another classic design that has survived the centuries. The first vessel was constructed in 2700 by Whatt and Pritney Ship Constructions. With the demise of the company and after various mergers and takeovers the ship design is now owned by Faulcon deLacy. The ship remains the slow and sturdy craft it was originally famous for and some smaller navies still use this class as a patrol cruiser (although tiny compared to the Imperial Interdictors and Federal Battle cruisers).
The Python in it's description in E: D is this: Another classic design that has survived the centuries. The first vessel was constructed in 2700 by Whatt and Pritney Ship Constructions. With the demise of the company and after various mergers and takeovers the ship design is now owned by Faulcon deLacy. The ship remains the slow and sturdy craft it was originally famous for and some smaller navies still use this class as a patrol cruiser (although tiny compared to the Imperial Interdictors and Federal Battle cruisers).
so its might be an old design, but produced by an actual company with modern components......and it is NO trader as some here always try to imply.....its A SMALL BATTLE SHIP!
thanks. so slow it would be according to lore.....phew....thats a bitter pill to take.....
but i could live with that if the ship would remain "sturdy"
with 30% less shielding and its actual paper armour if not upgraded, this is clearly not the case!
Two things I would like...
1) Tell us what the base numbers are and spin up a Public Test Server with 1 month at least of testing so we can help make sure these changes are appropriate
2) After the patch that changes the Python allow for a short term no penalty selling of the ship (I bought a 57 million credit ship based on the capabilities at the time of purchase. You can change it after give me time to ditch it without penalty)
I am also hoping they see that people are MAD at their activity. Letting them know that it is outrageous to make such massive changes so close to launch. I want to love FD and ED and I was loving them until they start changing things so massively. Small percents, under 10%, are balancing acts this is just a slap in the face of players that actually put in effort to get the ship. Does this indicate future behavior. I want to make sure they know this WILL NOT STAND! Which is you know, my opinion dude.
I normally do not forums because I know I get a bit passionate but I cannot let this slide.
yes...i dont want to lose 6 million just for NOTHING, because the ship i bought is not the same anymore and i have to sell it, because it does not serve my purpose anymore
i have to kill 40 condas in missions for that money! thats approx 10 hours of playtime!
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This proves my point that it was an act of incompetence to release the Python in its current ship. They got their MATHS wrong and did not stick to their design description. It would even seem like they did not do any internal play testing. I hope they see my comments and realize wow yeah that is on us not on players and take appropriate actions to correct and not cause me to lose 5.7 million when I drop this ship when I am done trading in it.
Don't bother, these folks already said they don't care about lore. Or how the devs see it. They mistakenly belief that if you pay a lot for something you get to decide how it works. Which, as they are finding out, is not how it works. Ofcourse common sense dictates that if you don't like the Python as the devs see it, you either don't buy it or, if you already own it, you sell it. But they rather go for option c) complain, mistakenly assuming that 'because they work hard' (which is a silly thing to say about playing a game, btw) they somehow should have a say in it.
No, because (as so many posts in this thread and others aptly demonstrate), a game 'balanced' by player polls would be a terrible, unplayable mess.
Yes. They're called the development team.
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Lets remember to keep it calm and constructive folks.
T.j. can you please get us more information so we can be calm and constructive? Right now we only have enough information to be mad, happy or indifferent to the change. We need more information about stats and number to have an actual discussion.
So FD is the first company ever to make a rebalance in the game (any game)? There is infinite number of games that have passed rebalancing well after being released.
Easy. Analyze the starts available now, apply the given values and you'll get a picture (and yes, you have the shield numbers, velocity values). Moreover, he has provided all this values for the Python as well as he has provided the exact changes. Yet again I am repeating it, even with this changes Python still has the second best shields, its damage dealing capabilities are not modified.
You are constantly speaking of a Viper, but do you know that in its current state it is a shadow of itself in Beta 1 when it was the fastest and the most manoeuvrable ship.
I have owned a maxed out Python since Gamma, I have made a clear save not so long ago and I had a maxed out Python in less than 1.5 weeks since then. And I support FD in rebalancing Python this way.
You need to adapt to the changes then you are going to survive the encounter with any ships. And I totally cannot understand why are you so afraid of Vipers. Python can always get away from them.
It still is sturdy. Even with 30% less shielding, it has insanely high shields; you have to appreciate how powerful the current shields are in terms of numbers. After 30% taken way from it, it is still higher than anything that isn't an Anaconda. I wouldn't describe it's armour as paper either, especially considering the base hull mass and size; it's no Eagle.
It seems odd that tha Conda which is the next class up that serves the same multi-purpose roll that is much easier to hit, less speed and maneuverability actually have less shield than the Python. Even with the 33% reduction in shield strength, Python will still have the 2nd highest shield strength in the game, 3rd being that Clipper with a Class 7 Generator. Python currently have about double the shield of the Clipper when both are fully upgraded.
The current base shield rating for the Python is 390, you can see it in-game in the Shipyard. So the base after the balance changes will be 260 (assuming the -33% doesn't change).
As an aside, Mike has said that the dev team has always wanted the outfitting screen to provide more useful numbers, like the actual shield rating of your ship (which depends on both the stats of the ship and the stats of the shield generator module you choose), and this will be coming in the future.
No, it's balancing. Is it unfortunate that it wasn't caught earlier? Of course. But throwing your toys out of the pram every time someone makes a mistake or doesn't have time to do something sooner isn't going to get you very far in life. Stop acting like a spoiled child and people might take your opinions a little more seriously.
Then I'm afraid you'll find it hard to find many games to play, other than ones that are released and then never supported.
As SuBSynk said just a few posts before you, balancing is an ongoing process that's the sign of a healthy game and responsible dev team.
Not having a publisher doesn't magically grant limitless time, money and other resources. Quite the opposite, if anything.
No, it was to allow them to make the game they wanted to make without external creative interference. That's a very different thing.
As I said, good luck with that.
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I was not apart of Beta and I would expect that activity in Beta. That is what Beta is for and I applaud FD for making changes at that stage. Release is not Beta and massive swings like this will produce a great perceived instability in game mechanics driving players away. Yes, you are right that many other companies did this before and I HATED IT! I was hoping that because FD is self publishing this game they can be slower and more rationale with their changes, communicate, and be more transparent about changes.
I agree that we need to adapt but if I have to re-learn how to fly a ship regularly then I am going to walk. I did that in WoW for 10 years and hated it.
By the way using the logic that other companies did it so it is okay for us to do it is very bad. Be better than other game companies and stop the cycle of nerfs and buffs. Get the testing in, play test things, give it to the players to test and then release it saying this is where want it. Right now FD will not see ANY more money from me until my faith has been restored. I am not demanding you meet my demands but simply saying my wallet will not open until I am sure and confident the money spent will not be regretted. I leave it to FD now to take the actions they deem proper and appropriate before I make my final decision.
That is the whole point. Some people do not want to get away from Vipers, with the logic being that the Python is more expensive so you should, as one said, 'swat them like flies'. It makes no sense to me, but it does to some. The central question is this: should you really need to adapt to changes, or should the game adapt to what I want it to be?
As much as I'd love to be able to answer your questions it's something that is decided by the developers not us lowly forum mods.
I've personally not had time to play the game since the New Year as I'm normally too busy running for the hills screaming when I see Mike has posted...
But, Mike and the guys do work incredibly hard to get things right and deserve in my opinion a huge amount of respect for taking the time to explain whats happening and the thinking behind game decisions and apologising if something is not quite right.
So as I said, lets be nice to each other please?
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