Fer de lance and expected python nerf

[Ian Skippy]

Bigger ships are expensive because they are big, not because they are a "Level 90 Legendary Sword of Doom +100500 Fire Damage". Lots of bonuses come with the size and the cost (bigger guns, thicker hull, more cargo, ...), that's what you get for the money, not the ability to "press X to win".

+1

That said, bigger ships could definitely use a profit buff or a repair cost reduction, to make maintenance more manageable.

I would personally prefer to have the insurance be non-lineair. The 5% seems ok for most larger ships, but doesnt really work for smaller ships. I'd say it should be graded: say 25% for sidey to Viper to 2,5% for condie. Currently my Viper is like 150k insurance, which is peanuts.

 

[cherny_prapor]

+1
I would personally prefer to have the insurance be non-lineair. The 5% seems ok for most larger ships, but doesnt really work for smaller ships. I'd say it should be graded: say 25% for sidey to Viper to 2,5% for condie. Currently my Viper is like 150k insurance, which is peanuts.

Insurance is not the only issue - I think that losing a huge-ass ship SHOULD hurt bad (10-15 mil-ish), but the repair costs for them are also insane, and that's kinda wrong, IMO.

 

[Aleksej]

By that logic then they need to BUFF the Type-9, Type-7 and Type-6. It is pretty crap that those multi purposes ships can out perform the hauler ships. Performance in trade is based on profit per hour not individual sale sizes. In my Python I can do 2 runs in the time it takes a Type-9 to do 1 run. This means I have no reason to own a type-9. This gets even worse when you consider an anaconda which is the clear winner of the hauler wars until we get more ships. The nerf to the Python is simple knee jerk to forum complaining. If I see this keep up from the devs then I will leave this game so fast. I spent 10 years experiencing that in WoW and I will not do it again.

-33% base shields and -17% to THRUST, ACCELERATION, AND SPEED means the ship was not tested well enough in beta. I am starting to lose faith in Frontier Developments. I would have been fine if they changed the numbers saying the engines giving math reasons, in-game fluff reason, or something else besides... it is just too good. Damn right it is too good at 200mil to properly outfit and a 6-10million rebuy cost. I better be a beast at that price point.

@Mike Evans you should be ashamed of yourself for your lack of emotional intelligence. It is never appropriate for the developers to behave in the manner which you did earlier in this thread. You owe us the community an apology.

And here is a major inconsistency. Python could not have been tested during Beta thoroughly because it was only introduced later in Gamma. And with its price only a limited number of players could have tested it. And even less players would criticize it.

The rebalancing is definitely not game breaking. Some ships already went through similar changes and it did not cause such effect.

And reading the threads about the Python rebalancing, seeing how many people and especially the way how they request NOT to change the Python, only strengthens my opinion that Python needs to be rebalanced the way devs think. Although I think that it might be made slightly faster later.

I think Mike Evans has nothing to be ashamed of and a lot of people are undeservingly harsh on him. He's doing a great job.

 

[Wolf Starslayer]

Jeez is this still going , wait for the balance pass then comment , all this is now is hot air, calm down people.

 

[wicked_fox]

Bigger ships are expensive because they are big, not because they are a "Level 90 Legendary Sword of Doom +100500 Fire Damage". Lots of bonuses come with the size and the cost (bigger guns, thicker hull, more cargo, ...), that's what you get for the money, not the ability to "press X to win". That said, bigger ships could definitely use a profit buff or a repair cost reduction, to make maintenance more manageable.


I kinda disagree about the apology part. Of course it was somewhat "unprofessional", but when someone is being a , it's no wonder that a guy can lose his temper for a moment. Geez, people, we're all human beings, learn to forgive.

BTW, the devs shouldn't be "controlled by whiners", and I don't think they are now - kill/death statistics for ship types probably can be calculated from the game's logs/data, and if some ships stand out radically, they get a stat tweak. That's how many MMOs work. Also, it's kinda stupid to expect the game balance being perfect right from the start - no online game has perfect balance from the very beginning.

I totally agree with you sir.
Right now flying a big ship seems just too much expensive for what you get.

It's not a problem for me since i'm a trader in soul (i have chills running back my spine just looking at my bank numbers going up), but i can hardly see people flying ship this expensive to get 10 min of fun, get blown up, grind 1 hour to get the insurance back, have fun 10 min.... rinse and repeat.

 

[Mkaard]

Just play smalls ships. No interest to farm others, too expansive for nothing, or maybe a type 7.
I was farming for a python, i think i'll stop, buy a viper before the vulture, untill next nerf because of a new ship...
I'm a bit affraid for the future. You can't really balance a "sim", you want a better ship? go farm like others, or go hunting bigger ship with a friend, more realistic than a biker using a 47magnum to destroy a tank.
It brings less consistency in this universe.

 

[TheEponymousBob]

If the devs are going to be controlled by whiners...

If so, then I suspect you have nothing to worry about...

 

[Oddnoun]

And here is a major inconsistency. Python could not have been tested during Beta thoroughly because it was only introduced later in Gamma. And with its price only a limited number of players could have tested it. And even less players would criticize it.

The rebalancing is definitely not game breaking. Some ships already went through similar changes and it did not cause such effect.

And reading the threads about the Python rebalancing, seeing how many people and especially the way how they request NOT to change the Python, only strengthens my opinion that Python needs to be rebalanced the way devs think. Although I think that it might be made slightly faster later.

I think Mike Evans has nothing to be ashamed of and a lot of people are undeservingly harsh on him. He's doing a great job.

Do not release things that are not tested!! I might need to not play Elite: Dangerous anymore then because I did not understand how incompetent the company would be at Multi-Player games. This is RELEASE not beta so using that as an excuse to justify a massive change is not appropriate. I did not play in Gamma or Beta or Alpha because I found out about the game later than I would have liked.

Mike is a Designer and ALL he gave us was percentages without any frame of reference. How else should players react when we have NO DATA about the game. We do not know anything about damage numbers, shield numbers, movement numbers, or anything so we can understand changes. All we saw -33% and -17% THOSE ARE HUGE PERCENTAGES. He is at fault for the outrage of players because we have no way to UNDERSTAND what they mean. He still owes us, the community, an apology or he needs to keep those types of things to himself.

I spent a lot of time working up to a Python with a 10 MILLION rebuy cost. If 1-3 vipers can kill me I will never fly the ship again. It is not worth my time to lose that many credits. I guess Frontier Developments wants everyone in Vipers and that will get boring fast.

 

[Poseidal]

Just play smalls ships. No interest to farm others, too expansive for nothing, or maybe a type 7.
I was farming for a python, i think i'll stop, buy a viper before the vulture, untill next nerf because of a new ship...
I'm a bit affraid for the future. You can't really balance a "sim", you want a better ship? go farm like others, or go hunting bigger ship with a friend, more realistic than a biker using a 47magnum to destroy a tank.
It brings less consistency in this universe.

No, the Python was the equivalent of a tank doing 720 backflips, then crawling into small spaces doing spec op missions before leaping into the air to shoot down some helicopters and then disguising itself as a secret agent into the Bolitarian embassy.

 

[TheEponymousBob]

He still owes us, the community, an apology or he needs to keep those types of things to himself.

Please quote the SLA that you negotiated when buying this game.

 

[Oddnoun]

Please quote the SLA that you negotiated when buying this game.

I bought the game out of hope we would see something amazing. Mike's reactions and the massive change to a single in a single swoop has left me to one realization... did I waste $50? In my opinion he owes us the apology. Will it ever happy? Probably not but I allowed my criticism. I am not naive but I will walk with my wallet away from this game and recommend no one else pick it up or wait 6 months to a year after we get out of beta... if they ever stop changing things. Like I said in previous posts I am not going through a WoW experience again and we are starting towards that dark path.

 

[Wolf Starslayer]

He did apologise for his tone a few posts later, let it go.

 

[malicious1]

No, the Python was the equivalent of a tank doing 720 backflips, then crawling into small spaces doing spec op missions before leaping into the air to shoot down some helicopters and then disguising itself as a secret agent into the Bolitarian embassy.

i sense big "ship"" envy ship yeah ship thats the ticket

 

[Poseidal]

i sense big "ship"" envy ship yeah ship thats the ticket

You can attribute that if you wish, but you'd be wrong. The Python obsoletes (apart from pure trading) all other large ships, and pretty much stands on the toes of the smaller ones. It was the infinity+1 RPG progression ship that doesn't belong in a sim game.

 

[Ian Skippy]

Insurance is not the only issue - I think that losing a huge-ass ship SHOULD hurt bad (10-15 mil-ish), but the repair costs for them are also insane, and that's kinda wrong, IMO.

I don't know: I kinda want it to be more expensive. Not as a money sink but to force people not to fly around in their brand-new-shiny ships 100% of the time. It has been discussed earlier in another topic but a used-ship market would work well with increased repair and w&t costs the more repaired it is. For example going from 10%->11% should cost (e.g.) 1000cr, but 99->100% should cost 50k. Flying around in a super new Python should be insanely expensive. This way only a few can fly a 100% Python, but many can chose between, say, a 100% cobra or a rundown nearly derelict Python. It also would give people more insurance options. Sure, you can insure completely and get a 100% python back, but it'll cost you. Or you can insure to a 50% python for way less. You need to set the level before leaving a station. It is not as simple to implement but as a general idea I'd like it a lot.

Check your local cargo port and look at the ship. How many look brand new? How many make you wonder how it stays afloat at all? That is what I would like to see in ED! I want to be a cpt. Reynolds, working hard to keep my ship in the air at all, not someone who works hard to merely reduce the time it takes to inevitably get a Gigantic Miniature Space Deathstar of Total Ownage + 3. But I know it is just my opinion, many folks would much rather go for the latter.

 

[IceyJones]

i will not play the python in open anymore after the changes. i can afford only one loss of my 6 million rebuy. a second would bankrupt me.
and i wont do the trade grinding to that extend that others do and sit on a billion credits already....

i agree the python should not be able to guarantee a novice combat pilot (such a trader with a billion credits that never has fought a battle with a viper or cobra in his whole carrier) just jumps into a python with 50 cells and A6 shields and mil spec armour and rules them all......thats the last thing want. there must be a chance to get him also in smaller ships. so skill must pay out!
atm it does not......this is NOT a skill based game at all.....

but i hope the devs will make it to one.......some day

and all this discussions of OP pythons would not arise, if such a ship could only be bought by dangerous rank upwards, preventing traders to jump in early and rule them all
like a licence to show, that you are worth flying such a combat beast....

as there is also a trade progression......you earn the bigger ship you have.....why not also in combat?!
show, that you know how to fight by flying an eagle first......with ranking up, you get access to viper, then ASP, then python.....

atm combat is NOT rewarding in any means.....not moneywise, not mission wise, not ship wise.....

 

[SuBSynk]

wait 6 months to a year after we get out of beta... if they ever stop changing things.

Balancing is an ongoing process and will likely never stop, that's the sign of a healthy game and responsible dev team.

 

[blowdog]

I was about to post a new thread but thought better of it.

Has there actually been a poll to ask the users if the Python should be nerfed?

Is it a case of a vocal minority dictating the winds of change?

 

[IceyJones]

I was about to post a new thread but thought better of it.

Has there actually been a poll to ask the users if the Python should be nerfed?

Is it a case of a vocal minority dictating the winds of change?

not that i know........have not seen one...
but it would not matter.....there are far more frustrated viper and cobra-pilots out there and would vote everything down anyway

and when the vulture hits, the game starts from beginning.....2 vultures will kill any python in no time.....what happens then?! nerf vulture, or buff python again!?!?!?
problem is, until then i died so often in my python, that i quit the game already because of bankrupt account

 

[malicious1]

You can attribute that if you wish, but you'd be wrong. The Python obsoletes (apart from pure trading) all other large ships, and pretty much stands on the toes of the smaller ones. It was the infinity+1 RPG progression ship that doesn't belong in a sim game.

ah garbage it obsoletes small ships running rampant on large is all or did before the nerfage