Fixed very dark when in space?

[Agrar Therenus]

Do you mean this post?

That isn't my post?

No I mean:

"Why should the rest of the player base suffer in darkness because some people want to try and use the darkness to ambush players?"

It right up there, about 12 posts ago or so. You responded to that post you quoted, and I responded to yours.

 

[Logan Terrick]

In your opinion it should be lighting up more. Maybe FDEV thinks differently

Maybe so but lighting in real life works in a specific way. If the lighting physics rules don't follow the same rules in game as they do in real life then the game is not going to look realistic. If that's how Frontier want the game to look then that's their prerogative but I think they will find an awful lot of people who are not happy that lights don't put out light any more.

 

[Logan Terrick]

No I mean:

"Why should the rest of the player base suffer in darkness because some people want to try and use the darkness to ambush players?"

It right up there, about 12 posts ago or so.

Yes, I was responding to the post I quoted. darkbanefox had said that the darkness could be used to ambush players as a reason that it should stay. There I am asking why everyone else should have to put up with the darkness for that reason.

 

[Logan Terrick]

It seems like there are two separate issues being discussed at the same time here.

1 - Some people think that the game is too dark full stop, that space outside of the cockpit is too dark. (I am not in this camp)

2 - Some people think that space outside of the cockpit is fine but the lighting inside the cockpit is not giving out the ambient light that it should be and the cockpit interior is way too dark. (I am in this camp)

 

[Old Duck]

Space is fine, you just have a dusty monitor.

 

[Logan Terrick]

Space is fine, you just have a dusty monitor.

How dare you Sir! I'll have you know I clean all five of them twice a day!

 

[Tenuem]

View attachment 228878
lol

And this is one of the reasons why game development is so hard.

In all honesty, people asking for a "bright" space is mind-boggling.

 

[Agrar Therenus]

I mean is it really THAT bad? I can see the cockpit perfectly clearly, and the lights are really quite apparent. I mean yes it may be darker when your out in the pitch blackness of a planet surface, but if it was brighter it'd blind the outside (again just like how you don't want internal lights on in a car at night).

The option for internal lights as I suggested could be there, but honestly I think even you would turn them down when it's pitch darkness outside so you aren't dazzled.

 

[dipperside]

Well, we all know (or at least most of us) that the atmosphere scatters light, and therefore the absence of the atmosphere does not. So on non-atmospheric bodies, being in any shadow is equivalent to being in a coal bag (literally). But agree - the cabin of the ship (if it is not damaged of course) has an atmosphere - then what the hell in the ship is so dark and to see HUD normally I have to lean towards the monitor at maximum brightness both in the game and on the monitor?!?!
And the interior of the orbital stations - the dock area is almost completely colorless, all as if covered with a thick layer of dust. And in the recreation area, bar - should darkness reign?
With the lighting, IMHO they go too far (((

 

[Logan Terrick]

I mean is it really THAT bad? I can see the cockpit perfectly clearly, and the lights are really quite apparent. I mean yes it may be darker when your out in the pitch blackness of a planet surface, but if it was brighter it'd blind the outside (again just like how you don't want internal lights on in a car at night).

The option for internal lights as I suggested could be there, but honestly I think even you would turn them down when it's pitch darkness outside so you aren't dazzled.

To me that is bad lighting physics, yes. I wouldn't turn them down. It is very subjective though and should be made an option not a one 'darkness' fits all.

 

[Agrar Therenus]

To me that is bad lighting physics, yes. I wouldn't turn them down. It is very subjective though and should be made an option not a one 'darkness' fits all

Well, it seems now there's no magic ambient light, only the actual lights generate. It's not bad physics, it's just an aesthetics choice. I prefer it-- so again I'd say they just need to add a dimmer on the panels to change the illumination levels, for when you're landed on a moon and want to read the lastest trashy novel.

 

[Tenuem]

I mean is it really THAT bad? I can see the cockpit perfectly clearly, and the lights are really quite apparent. I mean yes it may be darker when your out in the pitch blackness of a planet surface, but if it was brighter it'd blind the outside (again just like how you don't want internal lights on in a car at night).

The option for internal lights as I suggested could be there, but honestly I think even you would turn them down when it's pitch darkness outside so you aren't dazzled.

I have been trying so hard to grasp what people are complaining about since Odyssey launched, and with this brightness/darkness topic I JUST DON´T GET IT.

I really don´t, and it makes me feel kinda bad lol.

For me the new dark/moody atmosphere makes things more realistic and gritty. I enjoy it.

But most people are saying the complete opposite and for the life of me I don´t understand.

 

[Logan Terrick]

Well, it seems now there's no magic ambient light, only the actual lights generate. It's not bad physics, it's just an aesthetics choice. I prefer it-- so again I'd say they just need to add a dimmer on the panels to change the illumination levels.

They already have the light adjustment for the ship HUD, if you turn it up though it only brightens the lights not the light emitting from them. The cockpit struts and dashboard don't get any brighter. It's not the lights that need to get brighter, the light emitting from them needs to have a greater effect on the environment around the lights.

 

[Montgomery Dog]

As someone else has pointed out in another thread, the lighting seems to have been tuned for HDR displays. Which would explain quite a lot.

I don't have any HDR capable displays in the house so it looks like garbage to me - all crushed blacks and blown out highlights.

Interestingly, in our 4-man playtest last night the only player who didn't complain about the lighting was my youngest son (he complained endlessly about EVERYTHING else). He has a fast response time TN panel (for twitch gaming) which has some of the worst gamma, contrast and colour conformity I have ever seen on a monitor.

 

[dipperside]

And this is one of the reasons why game development is so hard.

In all honesty, people asking for a "bright" space is mind-boggling.

No need to generalize. There are logical reasons to add lighting where it is needed. Well, except for the LOR of the game for the millennium, humanity has developed a night vision... but for us, the players are not yet

 

[Agrar Therenus]

They already have the light adjustment for the ship HUD, if you turn it up though it only brightens the lights not the light emitting from them. The cockpit struts and dashboard don't get any brighter. It's not the lights that need to get brighter, the light emitting from them needs to have a greater effect on the environment around the lights.

Yes, well of course I mean the physical lights that are in the ship itself. The ones for instance on my Chieftan cockpit on the window frame struts. There'll be the main lights above your head on the roof which would add a nice ambient glow if you turn those up.

Again just like a car, those soft lamps you get on the roof. It would be so simple to have an internal lights switch, so modifiying my suggestion a little just those soft roof lights come on, because you would not want to brighten those small lamps on the struts as that'd just be an eyesore.

I'll say also again I think it is the right direction to as default not have any magic ambient light. It always bothered me for instance on the dark side of planets this weird 8pm gloom emerged out of nowhere-- and yes I think it does relate to internal lights as it seems it used a universal ambience. Where there isn't any light it should be black-- unless the player actively has his own light to combat it.

 

[CMDR X]

I do know what Gamma is, people need to stop assuming what other people know or don't know and being condescending about it.

My point was that I don't think just adding increased gamma is going to cut it. The issue is that the darkest parts of the cockpit are just as black as the space outside. So increasing the gamma to a level where the darkest parts of the cockpit are dark grey will also make the space outside dark grey and the dark parts of the cockpit will still blend into the dark grey of space.

Sorry Homie, didn't mean to sound condescending, I was just frustrated that all anyone is talking about is gamma, gamma, gamma. Like that has anything to do with brightness or contrast. Which are the two settings that are broken in EDO.

This why I try to fix it to a small extent as I describe in my previous post:

Quick temporary dark graphics "fix" for my nVidia friends.

Set your gamma to where it was in Horizons and make sure to turn this back off when you are finished with your Odyssey perils. I can sort of make out some stars on the skybox this way.

forums.frontier.co.uk

 

[omnicognate]

I suppose the problem is that everybody was complaining that the space in Horizons was too bright with a lot of space dust and such. So the developers darkened it for Odyssey. But then you end up with a very bright cockpit and the HUD that stands out too much from the background. So they darkened the cockpit and HUD to match the space better. Unfortunately, everything is now quite dark. If you play only at night in a dark room then it's fine I guess? But for me it's very hard to actually read the HUD and the bright stars are like needles to my eyes...

No i think they're just using a different lighting engine that doesn't play well with the HUD (or paints for that matter). i don't think this was intentional, at the end of the day all you'd need to do would be just turn the game on to immediately notice the UI is too dark, it's not something they're likely to have done intentionally

 

[Logan Terrick]

Yes, well of course I mean the physical lights that are in the ship itself. The ones for instance on my Chieftan cockpit on the window frame struts. There'll be the main lights above your head on the roof which would add a nice ambient glow if you turn those up.

Again just like a car, those soft lamps you get on the roof. It would be so simple to have an internal lights switch, so modifiying my suggestion a little just those soft roof lights come on, because you would not want to brighten those small lamps on the struts as that'd just be an eyesore.

I'll say also again I think it is the right direction to as default not have any magic ambient light. It always bothered me for instance on the dark side of planets this weird 8pm gloom emerged out of nowhere-- and yes I think it does relate to internal lights as it seems it used a universal ambience. Where there isn't any light it should be black-- unless the player actively has his own light to combat it.

Hopefully this rough example may help.

In your chieftain cockpit here, you can see how it looks at the minute, the cockpit struts have lights on them but are barely visible just a short distance from the light, with next to no detail visible and they disappear into the black of space. This just isn't how light works in reality.

In this second pic I have edited it to have increased light being picked up in the environment around the cockpit lights, though the actual lights are not any brighter. If you look at the cockpit struts there is now much more detail visible and they don't disappear into the black of space. The dashboard is better lit and more detail is visible. Space outside is just as black though. This is more how it should look for me.

 

[Agrar Therenus]

Hopefully this rough example may help.

In your chieftain cockpit here, you can see how it looks at the minute, the cockpit struts have lights on them but are barely visible just a short distance from the light, with next to no detail visible and they disappear into the black of space. This just isn't how light works in reality.

View attachment 229807

In this second pic I have edited it to have increased light being picked up in the environment around the cockpit lights, though the actual lights are not any brighter. If you look at the cockpit struts there is now much more detail visible and they don't disappear into the black of space. The dashboard is better lit and more detail is visible. Space outside is just as black though. This is more how it should look for me.
View attachment 229814

Well, how light works is complex. I mean if you leave your PC on at night those LEDs don't light up all that much around it. Indeed just a very small area is lit up blue, for instance. It cuts out suddenly on that cockpit say on the bottom strut lights because there is a raised section just above.

An issue here is it's not entirely clear what is supposed to be the light itself. It appears to be emitting from a magic point source roughly aligned with those triple thin lines. Also the lighter grey part of the outside is light up more than the much darker raised bit inside. Metal reflects light much more than plastic, say.

As far as the status panels go, are they supposed to be projected on your helmet (so it shouldn't act as a light source) or actually on the dashboard itself?

Lights, especially pin ones, don't really throw all that much light around them at all, and not even getting in to how the bumpiness of the cockpit itself blocks light.

To my eyes that edited image you created does in fact look like someone's switched the roof lamps on. I mean just speaking practically a pilot would not want the physic space of the cockpit to be overly illuminated-- and yet again that is for precisely the same reason as driving at night, say on a motorway-- the small amount of outside light should not be interfered with by the glare of even dim internal lights (in game terms this is an aesthetic argument I concede).