Flawed game logic strikes again: haz-rez

[-VR- Max Factor]

There are, to use the quaint expression, "no-go areas" in some German cities these days, where the police, if they go there at all, only dare to go in numbers, as certain groups control these areas -- which happen to be situated in major German cities, mind you. This in spite of Germany not being an anarchy.

It is highly dubious that ANY in-system faction has enough man- and firepower to constantly patrol, let alone control, every nook and cranny of their system. Some areas are bound to be marked as "There Be Dragons" and be done with it.--

This areas would be considered anarchistic, like a system with an anarchy.

They are the no-go areas for the police. We already have them in game. They are just not used very well at the moment.

Nope, Res site make very little sense the way they are organised. It could be so much better.

 

[Kenneth McGrew]

One thing i dont get about resource sites in general...

The NPCs rank which you encounter is determined by your own rank as far as i understand.

However this is what i generally encounter

[Low] site i encounter eagles / sidewinders / adders / cobras
Standard extraction site - eagles / sidewinders / adders / cobras
[High] eagles / sidewinders / adders / cobras
[hazardous] eagles / sidewinders / adders / cobras

now if i relog a few times there sometimes is a sweet extraction site where pythons / clippers / FDLs / FGS / FAS spawn along with the occasional conda and they're great! (until you log out, and its back to sidewinders etc.) and this is regardless of threat

i assume i get the spawns because i do fly small ships, but its the large ship 1v1 battles i want, unfortunatly usually in Haz res site if i do get large ships to spawn its from one extreme to the other, i.e. a wing of two sidewinders in one spawn to a wing of 3xFAS in another, so i usually stick to [High] and relog to get the large ships, but i dont want the police support.

 

[fu9ar]

It makes no sense that any pirate would risk a billion dollar ship begging for scraps when vopal and painite fall off rocks like leaves in winter. "My children will go hungry tonight" - yes, because you aren't picking up the billions freely available in any rock anywhere.

They spent all of their money on the ship and they can't afford the permits for a seismic charge launcher. The Pilot's Federation takes care of all of those details for us.

 

[[VR] DDM_Reaper20]

This areas would be considered anarchistic, like a system with an anarchy.

They are the no-go areas for the police. We already have them in game. They are just not used very well at the moment.

Nope, Res site make very little sense the way they are organised. It could be so much better.

I do not concur with your assertion. These areas are not considered anarchistic, out of two reasons: 1. they are part of the country, which is not anarchistic; 2. anarchy means, literally, "no rule," and they are being ruled (by Clans).

As far as the game is concerned, I fail to see why this would be unrealistic. Space is big, there are only so many resources to go around, even in a high-security system. Certain areas of lesser interest might indeed be declared "venture there at your own risk, you've been warned."

You might not like that, but this does not equal being non-sensical.

(BTW, I have a serious problem with equating anarchy and piracy. The former has absolutely nothing to do with the latter; anarchy originally simply meant that nobody was ruling, it did not mean (necessarily) that everybody would be running amok. Of course, that was just a theory promoted by Greek philosophers, and real-life experimentation proved (time and again) that true anarchy is incredibly hard to maintain -- it always collapses in on itself.)

 

[Old Duck]

OP makes a valid point. Haz Rez should be the "back alley" of even a High Sec - like a mini bubble of Anarchy where anything goes.

For this to really make sense, if a ship you attack manages to escape, then you should have those crimes reported against you (obviously assault, not murder). Of course that would encourage otherwise honorable pirates to kill their targets, unless ED implemented a "intimidate" mechanism like RDR2 has. "If you tell anyone, I will find you, and I will kill you!" button.

Unfortunately our interactions with NPCs in this game are nowhere near the lovely sophistication of games like RDR2.

 

[-VR- Max Factor]

I do not concur with your assertion. These areas are not considered anarchistic, out of two reasons: 1. they are part of the country, which is not anarchistic; 2. anarchy means, literally, "no rule," and they are being ruled (by Clans).

As far as the game is concerned, I fail to see why this would be unrealistic. Space is big, there are only so many resources to go around, even in a high-security system. Certain areas of lesser interest might indeed be declared "venture there at your own risk, you've been warned."

You might not like that, but this does not equal being non-sensical.

(BTW, I have a serious problem with equating anarchy and piracy. The former has absolutely nothing to do with the latter; anarchy originally simply meant that nobody was ruling, it did not mean (necessarily) that everybody would be running amok. Of course, that was just a theory promoted by Greek philosophers, and real-life experimentation proved (time and again) that true anarchy is incredibly hard to maintain -- it always collapses in on itself.)

Because ATR are far more superior to any NPC pirate out there. There is no reason at all for there to be no police at a Haz Res in a high security area. Sure, if there were good gameplay and lore reasons for it, then that's great but your example does not really compare except in anarchy occupied systems.

 

[Kenneth McGrew]

They spent all of their money on the ship and they can't afford the permits for a seismic charge launcher. The Pilot's Federation takes care of all of those details for us.

i think the permit for small seismic charges is unlocked by handing in the exploration data for Raxxla IIRC, maybe the NPCS think Raxxla is an empty cargo hold?

 

[sollisb]

One thing i dont get about resource sites in general...

The NPCs rank which you encounter is determined by your own rank as far as i understand.

However this is what i generally encounter

[Low] site i encounter eagles / sidewinders / adders / cobras
Standard extraction site - eagles / sidewinders / adders / cobras
[High] eagles / sidewinders / adders / cobras
[hazardous] eagles / sidewinders / adders / cobras

now if i relog a few times there sometimes is a sweet extraction site where pythons / clippers / FDLs / FGS / FAS spawn along with the occasional conda and they're great! (until you log out, and its back to sidewinders etc.) and this is regardless of threat

i assume i get the spawns because i do fly small ships, but its the large ship 1v1 battles i want, unfortunatly usually in Haz res site if i do get large ships to spawn its from one extreme to the other, i.e. a wing of two sidewinders in one spawn to a wing of 3xFAS in another, so i usually stick to [High] and relog to get the large ships, but i dont want the police support.

yeh an age old problem with the design. Some say it's an exploit, some say it's not.. Personally, if the game lets me do it, I do it, and keep quiet about it

 

[AkenBosch]

The transponders arguments is just space magic honestly

It's a videogame about fictional spaceships in a fantasy future world. Everything is space magic. Just engage your Friendship Drive and play pretend space ace.


\o/

 

[Drelthar]

To be honest, the only thing that doesn't make sense here, is the Haz-res existing in a high sec system.

It's not very high security to not have security in an area where theres loads of crimes going on.

 

[metatheurgist]

To be honest, the only thing that doesn't make sense here, is the Haz-res existing in a high sec system.

I think there are a lot of things in ED that don't make sense. I'd rather have a socio-political galaxy as good as the scientific galaxy (yes I know that's not perfect either) than fleet carriers tbh.

 

[IndigoWyrd]

Ahoy there,
what do you think on the following scenario and the result of the current game logic.

System security status: High
Haz-rez in system -> haz-rez = no police response, no ATR, only miners, pirates and powerplay NPCs

Attack a clean ship in haz-rez = assault fine
Kill a clean ship in haz-rez = bounty on your head.
How does that happen, without any police ever showing up?

Logic?!

Shoot a man in the "right" Chicago suburb, be wanted for murder, but no police show up.

Coincidence?

Haz-rez = Chicago Suburb

 

[Julio Montega]

OP makes a valid point. Haz Rez should be the "back alley" of even a High Sec - like a mini bubble of Anarchy where anything goes.

For this to really make sense, if a ship you attack manages to escape, then you should have those crimes reported against you (obviously assault, not murder). Of course that would encourage otherwise honorable pirates to kill their targets, unless ED implemented a "intimidate" mechanism like RDR2 has. "If you tell anyone, I will find you, and I will kill you!" button.

Unfortunately our interactions with NPCs in this game are nowhere near the lovely sophistication of games like RDR2.

I was actually thinking of adding that mechanic to the solution,
more risk when you mess up.

Shoot a man in the "right" Chicago suburb, be wanted for murder, but no police show up.

Coincidence?

Haz-rez = Chicago Suburb

Probably, but would you as a cop mess with Al Capone back in the days,
or even do the paperwork, knowing his cronies too have very good lawyers,
and there were no witnesses, as they were simply intimidated?

To elaborate:
Yes, i find haz-rez in high sec absolutely nonsensical,
but i also would love the system being able to reflect
the 'rats having men in the local police.
So i'd limit that to medium security.

 

[Iskariot]

Let me be direct here:

• Make haz-rez spawn at lower security levels only (medium = low amount of haz-rez/ low = a lot haz-rez / anarchy = haz-rez only)
• remove the bounty/fines accumulation in hazardous places
• allow for strike ops of the system security to counter hazardous places (haz-rez/hacked nav-beacon)

I think these are good ideas.
I want anarchies to become more meaningful anyway: high risk / high reward is where I think the game should move towards.

When I enter a low sec system I want it to feel different to me. Currently I don't even pay attention, because it doesn't matter. It should matter!

 

[Julio Montega]

I think these are good ideas.
I want anarchies to become more meaningful anyway: high risk high reward is where I think the game should move towards.

When I enter a low sec system I want it to feel different to me. Currently I don't even pay attention, because it doesn't matter. It should matter!

And Black Markets should matter too.
It is way too easy to lockout 2 playstyles from a system,
by simply installing a government that closes BMs.
That design is just garbage.

 

[Iskariot]

And Black Markets should matter too.
It is way too easy to lockout 2 playstyles from a system,
by simply installing a government that closes BMs.
That design is just garbage.

Don't get me started about black markets and smuggling.
FDev could do so much to make that part of the game truly fun.
Many proposals have been written about this topic. Perhaps one day....