Ships Fleet Carrier "Upkeep costs" are asinine!

[Baklavah]

how much you making in 1 hour? there are ways of getting to over 1b in under a week but it does take a bit of effort to get to that point
also why do you want an FC? it's not a requirement to play the game so you don't have to do it

I thought FC's would be end of game content and from what I understand it initially was, it was then made easier to have/run them. yes there's still a bit of effort involved but that's the point isn't it?

I just don't much like that I have to put everything else on hold to go about making tons of money to get one and then somehow make even more to make sure I never have to care that it's running for a while. Work is already a pain in the a**. Now I have to go and basically work for free to get something in a game. My friends and I want an FC, as it will make further mining expeditions and travel to other far off sectors significantly less painful. Sadly we can't POOL our money because FDev insist on us not being allowed to trade credits in any functional way, so one of us has to do all the damn work. One friend works on call as a paramedic. Can't rely on him. Another friend's schedule changes EVERY week. Can't rely on him. Another friend is gone 2 weeks a month for work at a mine up north. Can't rely on him. Our last friend works on a family owned farm and doesn't have time during the day, and barely any at night. So I get stuck with the task. I work nights. I "maybe" have 3 hours a day to do anything after I've run my errands, slept, showered, eaten, etc. And then I have my 2 days off, which are mostly spent recouping sleep and going outside to do other things so that I don't go stir crazy.

If you have a better way to accumulate 11B 685M so that I can "lease" (still not sure why we can't just outright BUY one...) a Fleet Carrier AND run it for 10 years without a care in the world, please. By all means. I'm all ears. So far I'm mining painite at double hotspots and it's still exceedingly slow. I have 256 cargo space, an active limpet limit of 9 collectors and I'm not making anywhere NEAR as much as people are claiming you can make with the same things. It takes me over 2 hours just to fill my hold. Then it takes me a further bunch of time to jump to my destination (I have no Engineered equipment. I've only recently come back in the last month-ish and I have a lot to do). It isn't time efficient because I haven't played and unlocked "all the good stuff" that most everyone else has. I am behind the eight ball. If you have a better idea, I'm listening.

 

[SCiARA]

I'd maybe put the FC want on hold until you have the basic engineering like FSD boost, this can help with jump ranges and could give you better prices/better distances to mine
Robigo run still pays out around a 100m an hour once you unlock felicity and get the LY range
also as @SENA- points out you don't need xx amount of years upkeep in advance, you are playing the game regularly so will be earning regularly
the only reason to have billions sunk into maintenance is if you are planning on having extended time away from the game

 

[Baklavah]

I'd maybe put the FC want on hold until you have the basic engineering like FSD boost, this can help with jump ranges and could give you better prices/better distances to mine
Robigo run still pays out around a 100m an hour once you unlock felicity and get the LY range
also as @SENA- points out you don't need xx amount of years upkeep in advance, you are playing the game regularly so will be earning regularly
the only reason to have billions sunk into maintenance is if you are planning on having extended time away from the game

I mean... things happen. The last time I fired up E was 3 years ago. I wanted to give it a break and go do other things. Play other games. Put in more hours at work to get some better pay. 2020 has also not been a good year. And I suspect future years will be just as unkind or worse depending on what gets thrown at us as a world at large. 10 years is me saying "I'd rather have it than not have it so that I can come back when I want to if I feel I should take some time away from it".

Honestly, if/when Cyberpunk drops, I intend to take an extended hiatus again because that game is something I've been waiting for. If I could somehow fall into 12B by the time CP launches, I can both obtain, unlock the specific functions I want and provide enough to upkeep the carrier for an audacious amount of time so that I don't have to worry about it and can come back at my leisure. That is why I am so adamant about it. If I run off to start Engineering things now, it'll take even longer.

 

[SENA-]

how much you making in 1 hour? there are ways of getting to over 1b in under a week but it does take a bit of effort to get to that point
also why do you want an FC? it's not a requirement to play the game so you don't have to do it

I thought FC's would be end of game content and from what I understand it initially was, it was then made easier to have/run them. yes there's still a bit of effort involved but that's the point isn't it?

I do easily 500 millions / hour in Painite. A single decent stone can give you 12-15 pieces, that is 10-14 millions / under a minute. Are zones where you get such stones for each 4-5 prospectors, so imagine, is fast. ( double hotspot painite, overlapping )

 

[Sensei Jacksama]

@Baklavah ask your other friends if they could try donating some mined goods to you. Not their whole load but maybe 1/2 or 1/4. If they are all wanting a FC it's not unreasonable to ask. My squadron all pitches in a stipend every now and then to help with our FC costs.

 

[SENA-]

I just don't much like that I have to put everything else on hold to go about making tons of money to get one and then somehow make even more to make sure I never have to care that it's running for a while. Work is already a pain in the a**. Now I have to go and basically work for free to get something in a game. My friends and I want an FC, as it will make further mining expeditions and travel to other far off sectors significantly less painful. Sadly we can't POOL our money because FDev insist on us not being allowed to trade credits in any functional way, so one of us has to do all the damn work. One friend works on call as a paramedic. Can't rely on him. Another friend's schedule changes EVERY week. Can't rely on him. Another friend is gone 2 weeks a month for work at a mine up north. Can't rely on him. Our last friend works on a family owned farm and doesn't have time during the day, and barely any at night. So I get stuck with the task. I work nights. I "maybe" have 3 hours a day to do anything after I've run my errands, slept, showered, eaten, etc. And then I have my 2 days off, which are mostly spent recouping sleep and going outside to do other things so that I don't go stir crazy.

If you have a better way to accumulate 11B 685M so that I can "lease" (still not sure why we can't just outright BUY one...) a Fleet Carrier AND run it for 10 years without a care in the world, please. By all means. I'm all ears. So far I'm mining painite at double hotspots and it's still exceedingly slow. I have 256 cargo space, an active limpet limit of 9 collectors and I'm not making anywhere NEAR as much as people are claiming you can make with the same things. It takes me over 2 hours just to fill my hold. Then it takes me a further bunch of time to jump to my destination (I have no Engineered equipment. I've only recently come back in the last month-ish and I have a lot to do). It isn't time efficient because I haven't played and unlocked "all the good stuff" that most everyone else has. I am behind the eight ball. If you have a better idea, I'm listening.

I will try my best to help you, considering the limited options you have; Will be great if you can tell me here what ship/build you use for mining;
Basically, a Conda or even a T9 can help you a lot, and your aim must be not the 10 billions for the FC but a bit more than 6 - just basic services for start, (advanced maintenance, I think is the right name) the re-stock option; Once you get those, your life will become far better, since you can park the FC in a system with best Painite hotspots, and you will not lose time anymore making trips to the market !

Now you stock there 1-2-3 000 painite, and when you reach a decent amount, AFTER you used INARA for several days checking the price variations on the markets, you do the jump on the system with THE best market ( something between 980 000 / 1 000 500 credits/tone) and when you do the jump, you may choose a spot to park as close to that market as possible, so you will reduce at minimum the travel time for unloading trips AND reduce a lot the chance to get intercepted / interdicted.

My ship, the one who get me the FC, was the fat lady - T9, with 512 cargo space, 3 x grade 5 collector limpets (12 limpets to use) AND a tier V Prospector Controller ( the time you load frags is best to use "shooting" series of 4 Prospectors - and to map the next targets. ). Overcharged PP , Monstered, will help to maintain 2 grade 2 mining lasers non-stop,
thrusters - any will do the job, but sure upgraded are better, and a Grade V Bi-Wave shield to avoid damage when you bump on rocks..
A full load of this will give you almost half billion.

You need a dozen trips - in 1-2 months you can do that, I hop, with your limited time... That is the hardest part, my friend. After that, things only will get better and better, and a lot easier.

T9 must - MUST - have the best FSD possible (engineered grade 5 ) and - this will help a lot ! - a Guardian FSD booster - so you will get some 25-26 yl fully loaded and some nice 30 unloaded.

 

[SENA-]

And - maybe - you can do a mining trip with your friends, once a week .... after 1 h "donate" the Painite all for one, and the one who get the load will be the "bank" - the one who will buy the FC... if 3 of you mine 150-160 - in 1 hour, once a week or even 2 weeks, if you add all in one ship you get half billion... in 1 hour. Is great to have friends at mining, but I imagine will be a bit hard to co-ordinate all of them at the dame hour / day...

 

[Baklavah]

Well, that is quite a bit of information. I have a T9, but do not have an engineered FSD. I have, instead of doing the 14 jump trip to sell for 958k, been doing multiple shorter trips selling for 716k to carriers in the vicinity. It loses me about 242k a run but I'd rather do that than risk getting interdicted every 5 minutes of travel for max payout on like a 20 (40hr round trip) minute trip. Instead, I'm back mining in less than 10 minutes.

Still not sure why Squadrons can't have a bank function. I dunno what this aversion to credit pooling is that FDev has, but it is a little frustrating. I'll talk to my pals and see if we can't coordinate.

 

[Baklavah]

My ship, the one who get me the FC, was the fat lady - T9, with 512 cargo space, 3 x grade 5 collector limpets (12 limpets to use) AND a tier V Prospector Controller ( the time you load frags is best to use "shooting" series of 4 Prospectors - and to map the next targets. ). Overcharged PP , Monstered, will help to maintain 2 grade 2 mining lasers non-stop,
thrusters - any will do the job, but sure upgraded are better, and a Grade V Bi-Wave shield to avoid damage when you bump on rocks..

T9 non-Engineered equipment

I made some adjustments to my setup... and this is the best I can do without engineered stuff.

Sadly I need the fighter bay to keep the pesky AI dbags off my tail while mining. Sometimes they leave immediately, other times they float nearby long enough for me to collect something and then they assault me for my haul. With nothing but 2 turret MCs to defend me, I'd rather have a fighter to make sure I'm safe.

Edit: had to readjust. Didn't have a refinery on board... makes life difficult if you can't refine the stuff lol

 

[AceMcKool]

I do easily 500 millions / hour in Painite. A single decent stone can give you 12-15 pieces, that is 10-14 millions / under a minute. Are zones where you get such stones for each 4-5 prospectors, so imagine, is fast. ( double hotspot painite, overlapping )

Please do share how to get "a decent stone".

I've spent hours in the overlapping hotspot in D1-112 and the results have been... underwhelming, to say the least.

Takes 10-12 prospector limpets to find one surface-only stone with maybe 45% painite, 50% if I'm extremely lucky. No cores or sub-surface deposits. Not one.

And yes, I brought all the toys and followed all the tutorials to the letter.

Not saying it is not profitable. I made it from Broker to Tycoon in a matter of 5-6 hours (three different sessions), but all I could make in each session was no more than 180 tons.

 

[Sysmon]

First of all, requiring fuel to be mined to run them is fine. Give us the ability to send AI crew out with a mining ship we have set up and let them come back and fill the tank on a loop until full. Let us send an AI-piloted fighter or two to defend said miner. They can fly in a wing, they will return with fuel and life can go on. Why would I suggest this? Most of us have LIVES. Give us the ability to automate some things and we'll gladly play more. We don't need to have a 2nd, 3rd or even 4th job. Life is already a pain in the neck.

Now... UPKEEP COSTS? Those are where the absurdity begins. Costs to make a jump? Why? YOU MINED THE FUEL. You make us spend a ludicrous amount of money, only to now have to spend EVEN MORE money to not only jump, but make sure the "carrier doesn't fall into debt"? There's a line. And you crossed it. Now it's less about fun-factor and more about "how much do I want to smash my skull against the wall? Until I fall unconscious? End up in a coma? Commit wall-assisted suicide?" Seriously. WHO'S IDEA WAS THIS? Because it was a terrible one. It's bad enough we have to maintain "weekly standings", amass an insane amount of credits for these carriers and then go BUY MORE SHIPS to fill a few pads with so that we have our options. "Do I feel like mining today? Do I feel like blasting fools?" Options are good, but strapping "red tape" around those options is BAD. At the very most, upkeep should only be required if the carrier takes damage. Tacking on a cost that DEMANDS that you forfeit any time you have to do the mind-numbing job of "keeping your mobile base afloat" is a horrendous idea on every level. What you're basically saying to your playerbase is "Don't get a life, because you'll go into debt and lose everything! Too bad so sad for you". Shameful.

The concept is great, the execution is laughable.

Nah, keep the costs as the are but remove the carriers from the game. One less thing to complain about.

S

 

[Exeider]

By "asinine" I was sure you were going to say the costs are so low they should just remove them. Because, they are nothing.

You describe millions upon millions as "nothing"? Are you high? Unless that has changed dramatically to be "hundreds of thousands", your argument makes no sense. I don't have 20 hours a day to grind to upkeep a carrier for a month without caring. I have a job, a life and things to do that include not being in my apartment 24/7. So please explain yourself.

As someone who's been on both sides of this argument let me explain how these two seemingly mutually exclusive positions can be true. When you don't have a fleet carrier, there are certain time sinks that essentially cut into your credit earnings per hour, now we accept this as a function of the game because up until fleet carriers, they just came with the experience.

But once you have a fleet carrier, several accepted conceits of the core game suddenly now no longer exist. And that is two things, 1) being able to store your cargo in what amounts to a "bag of holding" and 2) the ability to have your own personal space station at your fingertips.

Without even using the on-board commodity market, these two abilities dramatically increase your earnings per hour, and they do this not because they increase the earnings themselves, but it minimizes the downtime between times you're earning money, and the times you are not, which cut into your average. You can drop off your cargo, move the carrier, and put yourself square where you want to be.

If you're a miner or a trader, this really comes in handy and increases your earnings by a factor of at LEAST one order of magnitude, meaning add an extra zero to your average earnings. Credits in fact come easier and as such, 26.7 mill per week (assuming you have a fully upgraded carrier) becomes pocket change. Do a mining day of Painite and you generally earn enough credits to last 3-4 months, do a mining week and you can pack away YEARS of upkeep and never have to think about it again.

Now for the record, I hate the concept of upkeep, absolutely hate it. But with how Fdev has set it up, it is an easy mechanic to bypass with a little bit of occasional work. I know mining isn't the most enjoyable profession but it's the easiest to use to "bypass" Upkeep.

 

[Dragsham]

AceMcKool
Painite triple. You can sell to the carriers nearby and I don't think there's any pirates. Cos it's just outside the bubble.

Pipe (bowl) Sector GG-Y C2

 

[SENA-]

T9 non-Engineered equipment

I made some adjustments to my setup... and this is the best I can do without engineered stuff.

Sadly I need the fighter bay to keep the pesky AI dbags off my tail while mining. Sometimes they leave immediately, other times they float nearby long enough for me to collect something and then they assault me for my haul. With nothing but 2 turret MCs to defend me, I'd rather have a fighter to make sure I'm safe.

Edit: had to readjust. Didn't have a refinery on board... makes life difficult if you can't refine the stuff lol

You DO NOT need the fighter bay ! Pirates will "sniff" you when you drop in the belt. Let them search at will, no worries, if you have only collectors, they will ignore you.
Plot a course AWAY of them, in 2-3 -5 minutes you will get out of range.They will go away and never bother you again, unless you log out and later log-in again, this time with cargo present - now they will respawn, and you may get in trouble - so, DO NOT log-out unless you are in a dock.

Please take a look of those: (first spot is the one I use now - pay attention where he drops ... you must try to get right in the middle of the spots so you can get the best of both )

( @ AceMcKool - look at the first vid, please - I do the same, but I use a Conda who will bring me only 330 tones, ( 320 in cargo, 10 in refinery bins) but far faster, in only 1 hour )

Source: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OMYVSsHx-vc&t=127s

Source: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0kBj4MibSCY



AND use this tool, will help you a lot:

Miner's Tool

edtools.cc

 

[SENA-]

As someone who's been on both sides of this argument let me explain how these two seemingly mutually exclusive positions can be true. When you don't have a fleet carrier, there are certain time sinks that essentially cut into your credit earnings per hour, now we accept this as a function of the game because up until fleet carriers, they just came with the experience.

But once you have a fleet carrier, several accepted conceits of the core game suddenly now no longer exist. And that is two things, 1) being able to store your cargo in what amounts to a "bag of holding" and 2) the ability to have your own personal space station at your fingertips.

Without even using the on-board commodity market, these two abilities dramatically increase your earnings per hour, and they do this not because they increase the earnings themselves, but it minimizes the downtime between times you're earning money, and the times you are not, which cut into your average. You can drop off your cargo, move the carrier, and put yourself square where you want to be.

If you're a miner or a trader, this really comes in handy and increases your earnings by a factor of at LEAST one order of magnitude, meaning add an extra zero to your average earnings. Credits in fact come easier and as such, 26.7 mill per week (assuming you have a fully upgraded carrier) becomes pocket change. Do a mining day of Painite and you generally earn enough credits to last 3-4 months, do a mining week and you can pack away YEARS of upkeep and never have to think about it again.

Now for the record, I hate the concept of upkeep, absolutely hate it. But with how Fdev has set it up, it is an easy mechanic to bypass with a little bit of occasional work. I know mining isn't the most enjoyable profession but it's the easiest to use to "bypass" Upkeep.

One of the best posts on topic, I fully agree with you and share all your opinions here. I will add another plus of the mining .-- an important effect, especially for those who enjoy different builds - the need for RAW materials - you get so much of those you become, practically, independent. You will never need to search for raw materials... And you will have always enough to synthesize anything you may need.

 

[SENA-]

T9 non-Engineered equipment

I made some adjustments to my setup... and this is the best I can do without engineered stuff.

Sadly I need the fighter bay to keep the pesky AI dbags off my tail while mining. Sometimes they leave immediately, other times they float nearby long enough for me to collect something and then they assault me for my haul. With nothing but 2 turret MCs to defend me, I'd rather have a fighter to make sure I'm safe.

Edit: had to readjust. Didn't have a refinery on board... makes life difficult if you can't refine the stuff lol

About your T9 build - some advices:
you can use this great guide also :

Source: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PPzigMcLWFQ

or

Coriolis EDCD Edition

A ship builder, outfitting and comparison tool for Elite Dangerous

coriolis.io

1 - switch the life support to 5D , will save a lot of weight AND increase your jump range.
2 - SAME for the sensors, switch for 4 D
3 - instead of fighter bay, load a Collector 7 A - shorter range but longer life for them, so you can use them longer.
4 - in the 6 E - bi-wave shields , like you have - is perfect.
5 - in the 5E put a Guardian FSD booster = extra 10 yl jump range !
6 - double class 4 - one for 4 A refinery ( holds 10 bins = 10 extra tons) , other for Prospectors - 4A Prospectors . Holds 2 of them.
7 - the 2 x 3 slots: Collector 3 A x 2 = 4 Collectors = total 8 collectors limpets enough for 2 lasers ( use only 2 class 2 mining lasers, you do not need 3, 2 can work NON_STOP, with

3 you only have some 20-25 seconds. )
8 - on the slot class 2 - obvious, the Detailed Surface Scanner
9 - on the slot class 1 - advanced docking ( my choice) or cruise control, as you like.

This build give you best jump range, and that will help you when you go for market ( cut the travel time) and you have a decent "balance" between the "tools". You have 4 collectors for each mining laser, almost TRIPLE jumping range, and still enjoy a docking computer

 

[SENA-]

Please do share how to get "a decent stone".

I've spent hours in the overlapping hotspot in D1-112 and the results have been... underwhelming, to say the least.

Takes 10-12 prospector limpets to find one surface-only stone with maybe 45% painite, 50% if I'm extremely lucky. No cores or sub-surface deposits. Not one.

And yes, I brought all the toys and followed all the tutorials to the letter.

Not saying it is not profitable. I made it from Broker to Tycoon in a matter of 5-6 hours (three different sessions), but all I could make in each session was no more than 180 tons.

HERE :

Source: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OMYVSsHx-vc&feature=emb_logo


this place never let me down: many times I got hits like 1 of 55-60%, one 40-45, and 1-2 of 20-30% ;
Just be care to land as possible BETWEEN spots, at 1,87 mil. km of the one from the planet side.

 

[SCiARA]

some very good advise here, but get in quick as it will all be "balanced" next week
what are thoughts on that, will laser mining still be worth foing?

 

[SENA-]

some very good advise here, but get in quick as it will all be "balanced" next week
what are thoughts on that, will laser mining still be worth foing?

I am doing forced labor, right now because, like you, I am afraid the nerf hammer will fall hard next week... I will make some 2-4 k painite stock and I plan to sell all before next week update - they will do one of two, or, worst case scenario, both:

1 - significantly reduce the Painite concentration in hot spots, so where you get now fields with 60% and 50% you only get 10-20% or less
2 - drop the Painite price to 1/3 or less

Anyway, expect big losses...

 

[SENA-]

Please do share how to get "a decent stone".

I've spent hours in the overlapping hotspot in D1-112 and the results have been... underwhelming, to say the least.

Takes 10-12 prospector limpets to find one surface-only stone with maybe 45% painite, 50% if I'm extremely lucky. No cores or sub-surface deposits. Not one.

And yes, I brought all the toys and followed all the tutorials to the letter.

Not saying it is not profitable. I made it from Broker to Tycoon in a matter of 5-6 hours (three different sessions), but all I could make in each session was no more than 180 tons.

PS - here a prof - 5 min ago, from me, not from others, how rich is the place;

Source: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aytbx33spMI&feature=youtu.behttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aytbx33spMI&feature=youtu.be


this is worth some 35-38 tones of Painite (some 30+ millions) in under 3-4 minutes; 44%, 12%, 38%, 40%; the 40-44% give each some 12-14 tones,
and is just ONE salvo of 4 Prospectors, in the right place.