Fleet Carriers - Wishlist, Analysis and Speculation

Then the leader goes on vacation for a month, or has IRL problems, or gets banned, and the squadron effectively loses control of that carrier. Access options is not the main problem here as FDev confirmed we will be able to set them up. It is the control options that are missing so far. Having the squadron control it (through permissions as was originally proposed by FDev), would make sure there are always multiple people who can do the necessary actions.

Demanding the squadron leader essentially donating their personal carrier for squadron use is also unfair, especially since all players are limited to only one. What if the squadron needs a mining carrier in the bubble, but the leader wants to go explore deep space alone?

Not having carriers as squadron assets means someone will always have to sacrifice their own carrier for the group, and lose some of the freedom it offers. In these conditions only people with multiple accounts will be fine.
Given that every player can have their own carrier, a squadron can own multiple carriers (via multiple squadron members) and schedule their availability. It is the fundamental nature of co-operative game-play.

What has not been made clear is what will happen if you are docked at another player's carrier, exit the game, then come back when they are not on. My guess is that when you return you will appear at the carrier's last location either docked or otherwise. If docked then I would not be surprised if it is temporary, fly out of instance range, high-wake, or low-wake and it will most likely disappear - unless FD are going to use the access rights list as some form of visibility filter.

Ultimately, since every player will have the ability to own their own carrier adding a specifically squadron owned one to the mix is at least a tad unnecessary.
 
Personally, now that we can get them ourselves frontier will have to go out of their way to damage them as an out of bubble exploration hub.

Lets see if we dodge the bullet.
The obvious upkeep options I can see are:-
  1. Jump Drive wear and tear - could require some form of repairs every so-many jumps or perhaps if it is specifically disabled by a third party (c/f Mega-ship modules)
  2. Repair/Refuel/Rearm supplies - assuming these facilities are free to use then consuming some form of supplies would be the natural option. If they are carbon copies of NPC repair/refuel/rearm then probably not as credits would be required per operation. The two could potentially be combined but with the credits being discounted versus what would be paid at an NPC facility, but I would guess it would be one or the other rather than a mash-up option.
  3. Turret ammo/repair - assuming these ships are armed at all then it would not be unreasonable to expect the turrets to require some form of ammo and potentially need to be repaired (c/f mega-ships)
  4. General repairs - I have no doubt that these craft will be as vulnerable to Thargoid attacks as other facilities and have to be repaired if they are attacked. Then there is also the potential for environmental damage (e.g. Pulsar/Magnetar/White-Dwarf streams)
In summary, there are various natural options at FD's disposal without them going out of their way.
 
Ability to get a small flight of SLFs to patrol around the carrier, and promote one of your NPC pilots as a chief of security to determine the skill level of those fighters, would be neat. Obviously it wouldn't matter since SLFs don't amount for much and if there is not much PvP or ship attack scenarios, but I think it would be a nice touch and maybe not so hard to implement.
 
I would expect it to be material/cargo based rather than credits due to the fact Explorers will need to be able to maintain them in the field - there may or may not be a credit option but I would not expect the "upkeep" to be time based.

Credits will be able to be acquired out in the black if the carrier will have an option for Universal Cartographic service. I do sincerely hope you are correct on upkeep only being required when in use, but I will remain sceptical until proven wrong.
 
Credits will be able to be acquired out in the black if the carrier will have an option for Universal Cartographic service.
I think the problem is that some believe credits are made too easily but IMO they are wrong - there are some farming exploits that allow for extreme credit income but such exploits should not be considered the norm where balancing ANY game play elements are concerned.
 
Given that you will be allowed to control who can dock on the carrier (somewhat?) Will there be an option to show the carriers location on the map to those allowed to dock?
Being in a large group there will no doubt be several carriers to access, having their locations shown on the map would be nice
 
Given that you will be allowed to control who can dock on the carrier (somewhat?) Will there be an option to show the carriers location on the map to those allowed to dock?
Being in a large group there will no doubt be several carriers to access, having their locations shown on the map would be nice
Squadron members can already share bookmarks with each other, other than that I suspect you will need to be in an appropriate instance.
 
Given that every player can have their own carrier, a squadron can own multiple carriers (via multiple squadron members) and schedule their availability. It is the fundamental nature of co-operative game-play.

Ultimately, since every player will have the ability to own their own carrier adding a specifically squadron owned one to the mix is at least a tad unnecessary.

That assumes carriers will be relatively easy to buy and maintain. If basically everyone can have a carrier, then sure, there is no problem, and no need to cooperate or manage access at all. If carrier is 10 billion credits then most squadrons will not be able to afford more than one, if that.

I think the problem is that some believe credits are made too easily but IMO they are wrong - there are some farming exploits that allow for extreme credit income but such exploits should not be considered the norm where balancing ANY game play elements are concerned.

Thats the problem, credit income is normally quite slow, unless you go mining. This is where the balancing part comes in - if they are too expensive, people will grind and complain, or refuse to grind and complain, if they are too cheap, they will become the next Anaconda - best for basically everything.
 
My worries are about maneuverability, flexibility, and utility.


Beacon.
I'm assuming the ships will be persistent while the owning commander is offline. If they are not, then what use are their services? Fdev did choose to make them indestructible....
If others (up to 16 others) are allowed to visit the carrier, then they must be able to find it. This means it will be a POI in the navigational display. If the name is customizable (which it will be cause the cmdr name is custom), then there will be the temptation to use the carrier beacon as a billboard. For this reason, I'm ok with upkeep, so long as its only to the tune of 10mil/week OR 30 minutes of "gameplay." Yes that 30 minutes should include switching to the ship and location specialized for whatever gameplay this upkeep requires, and back. In eve, jumping capitals ran on isotopes which were just abundant mining products that just took time. The upkeep and jump fuel should just take time and its acquisition rate be LARGLY UNAFFECTED BY RNG.
We also need to know what the intended effect is when this nebulous upkeep elapses. Will the carrier just power down and only be findable by owner until resupplied or does it completely depopulate until the owner pays up and then it turns back up at the nearest inhabited system? Obviously, that would be terrible, which is why we need details.

My NPCs.
If the support ships are going to be little more then a combat patrol, then having an SLF crew be in them would be pretty cool. Otherwise, why even mention the support ships as a feature if they just buzz around. Even if they aren't flying around the ship, having the NPCs I've kept be the ATC or crew would be pretty neat. However, I must request that Fleet Carriers take a back seat to the over due feature of getting a escape system for the NPC. Ships are disposable, skilled pilots are not, even if they are not in the Elite club.

We live in an engineered world.

Making ships and modules purchasable at the carrier is of dubious utility, at-least for me. Activity specific ships are laid out ahead of time, modules purchased, set aside, and engineered to spec. If these "operations" specialization module's main purpose is to make ships and modules available in the carrier, then I'll be disappointed. I refer to 100.rub's initial point that these "operations" modules need to be customizable down to the component level. Make the external appearance a purely cosmetic choice if you have to.

Schroedinger's cargo.
What makes a mining station a mining station? A combat base of operations? It's the BGS, the economy type, and services available. Assuming for a moment, the carrier is dissociated from those things and does not have a market on board, how is it intended to support piracy, trading, S&R, or mining? My answer would be "by having storeable cargo for loot, commodities, recovered material, and ore." Fdev has not entertained the possibility of cargo persisting outside the player ship since the game's creation and unless I missed it, has not said they will allow the carrier to store cargo. This must be confirmed. There is also the issue of ownership and capacity. Will the carrier have a shared capacity or is it tracked per pilot and the max capability is 10000 tons per pilot with permission to dock?

Claustrophobic pads.
These pads are far too close together to be using the current docking system prefab for outfitting and "going below." Are we going to see a new animation set or is there no outfitting unless you have a op module with fewer pads so the internal bays fit?

"Personal Fleet" carrier.
Will we be able to summon ships to the carrier like we can between stations? Will we be able to store ships in the carrier? If I had one of these I would put all the ships and modules in it that I use on a regular basis and every time an event comes up that might require multiple ships, jump the whole thing there and unload the "trailer." My worry is the way the carrier is laid out and based on what has been said, I wonder if the carriers will even have shipyard functions. In which case, their use will be extremely limited outside of providing a forward operating base for the squadron.

As you can see, I'm very concerned that a fleet carrier will just be a player controlled mega ship with limited services and no new mechanics that could make it worth the expense of owning and moving it. However, if the ship had some unique capabilities such as storing cargo or parking near locations of activity and being a meaningful base to live out of, it could be worth the expense, especially if it was easy to mothball. The prospect is very tempting to fire up the painite machine to pay for it, but we need more information about the ship's technical limits from Fdev as soon as possible so we can give them meaningful advice. CARGO? JUMPFUEL? SHIPSTORAGE? OVERCROWDING? EXPENSE TARGETS? Right now we are just spit balling about what we want the ship to do without knowing what it is within the technical scope. Can it even jump without a server downtime? The sooner we hone this in, the less of a chance they become a meme, like powerplay or multicrew. If that means it goes back to engineering for 6 months to add a feature, SO BE IT!

Until the incident in the Witch Head Nebula, we didn't have a lot of game play that could really use a a battle wagon like the carrier so it needs to be worth while in the game we have and the content we will get in the future.

And for the record, also support the OP concerns.
 
Thats the problem, credit income is normally quite slow, unless you go mining. This is where the balancing part comes in - if they are too expensive, people will grind and complain, or refuse to grind and complain, if they are too cheap, they will become the next Anaconda - best for basically everything.
Not exactly - the Anaconda, Corvette, or Cutter are not ships that I would consider the best for everything either. The way FD have pitched the Carriers they are notionally mobile personal bases (rather than actual usable multi-role ships as such) that can be used to assist with co-operative gameplay. Also given rebuy is not an issue with them, we can only own one, and jumping them is likely to be expensive enough to make moving them regularly not a particularly recommended thing (unique fuel and 500Ly jump range is a big enough hint) I believe your concerns are highly likely to be unwarranted

As for the initial purchase price - I would expect it to be over that of a fully outfitted Cutter and since rebuy is not a concern and we can only own one of them each a 1-2 billion price tag would not be unreasonable nor would technically 10 billion given their apparent usefulness. Making the carrier cheaper but the upkeep more expensive and/or persistent would create more complaints and grind than making them expensive but relatively inexpensive to maintain.

Long and the short of it is that the Fleet Carriers are clearly meant to be mobile bases rather than actual ships meant to be flown around in on a regular basis. That may annoy those with dreams of captaining a battleship or carrier but it is certainly a balanced compromise and one that should address a number of desires from what FD have released to date including but not limited to the squadron carriers that some seem to still desire.
 
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Current Known FC Features
(y)Yes, (n)No, (p)rivat, (a)ssign, (m)odular,
Support Vessels (SV): Mercenery (MCSV), Bountyhutner (BHSV), Pirate (PSV), Smuggler (SMSV), Exploerer (ESV), Miner (MSV), Salvage (SSV), Trader (TSV)

Basics:
docking (a)
refuel (y)
rearm (y)
repair (y)

outfitting (?, m?, p?)
shipyrad (?, m?, p?)

Station services:
commodities market (?)
mission board (?)
passanger lounge (?)
Universal Cartographics (?, ESV?)
Crew Lounge (?)
Holo me (?)
Livery (?)
Remote Workshop (?)

Contacts:
Authority Contacts (?, BHSV?)
Combat Bond Contact (m? MCSV?)
Legal Facilities (m? PSV, SMSV)
Mercenary Facilites (m?, MCSV?)
Black Market (m?, PSV?, SMSV?)

Super Power Contact (?)

Storage:
module storage (?)
commodities storage (TSV?)
mining storage: ores (MSV?)
material storage (?)
exploration data storage (?)

Combat and Defensive Features:
Thrusters (n) (SV?)
SLF (?, m?, SV?)
hardpoints (?, m?, SV?)
optional internals for HRP, MRP, SCB (?, m?, SV?)
passive turret defense (?, m?, SV?)
shields (?, m?, SV?)

Other Features:
bridge (?)
ship transfer (?)
comms (?)
faction support (?)
 
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