Food for Thought : Possible Solution to Combat Logging & Stacking of Missions?

[NeilF]

So powerplay is also unsociable behavior?

Powerplay you sign up (raise your flag as Sandro likes to say) and actively choose to do something. If I fly to X to deliver Y to improve my Power's standing, and you (in another power?) decide to blow me up to instead better your Power's standings? Great!

However, if I was simply flying along delivering 20T of Biowaste, not affiliated with Powerplay at all, and in you pop and just blow me up, then that's clearly just being done for the lolz.

Quite different! And ideally the game should differentiate...

 

[anikaiful]

However, if I was simply flying along delivering 20T of Biowaste, not affiliated with Powerplay at all, and in you pop and just blow me up, then that's clearly just being done for the lolz.

Quite different! And ideally the game should differentiate...

If it's to a CG... I can see a number of reasons why someone would do that - particularly if they do *not* want the CG to succeed.

 

[Comrade Error]

Powerplay you sign up (raise your flag as Sandro likes to say) and actively choose to do something. If I fly to X to deliver Y to improve my Power's standing, and you (in another power?) decide to blow me up to instead better your Power's standings? Great!

However, if I was simply flying along delivering 20T of Biowaste, not affiliated with Powerplay at all, and in you pop and just blow me up, then that's clearly just being done for the lolz.

Quite different! And ideally the game should differentiate...

But we aren't talking about you delivering 20T of Biowaste. We're talking about you delivering a couple of tons of meta alloys which will then be used to create a UA resistent cargo rack which in turn will make it easier to UA bomb stations. Or any other CG with two or more sides to it.

 

[NeilF]

If it's to a CG... I can see a number of reasons why someone would do that - particularly if they do *not* want the CG to succeed.

Questionable reasoning aside for not wanting CG to succeed - ie: Isn't it handy if I actually go against this CG so I can blow up people... Did I even mention a CG? No...

The post you responded to was about Powerplay, so don't move the goal posts...

 

[Comrade Error]

Tricky... What happens if your PC simply shuts down? eg: Powercut? Or an internet hiccup?


And more importantly, while the game still isn't enforcing a Crime a Punishment system/mechanic anywhere near at an adequate level, I'm actually for people "pulling the plug"...

For example, where you get Wings of griefers at a (CG) station doing nothing more destroying CMDRs (traders) flying towards/out of the station! Not for one second should these individuals be rewarded with the "grief" they're after due to the game's lack of mechanics. eg: Ship after ship being attacked & destroyed just kiolmeters from a station by Wanted individuals, and the station does? Nothing! The local forces do? Nothing! And said individuals then even fly into the station to restock ready for more of the same.

So, while the game mechanics allow rediculous antics (griefing) like this to happen, I for one don't like the idea of the game helping them... I see the importance of players having a way out from mindless griefing (so as not to reward them for it) as more important than, for example, my risk of losing a "victim" while Pirating.


Once the game has started addressing this sort of stuff though, and griefing isn't ignored by the game, then:-
1) If you're doing a controlled exit from the game (with a 15 second countdown) - Show this countdown to all players in your instance.
2) Maybe extend the controlled countdown from 15 to 20-30 seconds?
3) If you are in a combat situation (ie: exiting would result in a 15 second countdown) and the game does an uncontrolled exit, on the next startup of the game, warn the player. If this happens regularly (quantity/time frame to be determined) restrict access to OPEN for increasing periods of time.

Ultimately the game should promote (offer) consensual PvP, and deter (mindless?) unwanted CMDR destruction by another CMDR. At the moment it's doing neither of these!

1) Did I even mention a CG?

2) Can you give me a reason why they might not really want a CG to succeed, ignoring the my mum was run over by a T9 on Igba 9, so they must all die!

Yes here and that's what our discussion was mostly based around.

Yes.. as I've made multiple examples as to why someone wouldn't want a CG to succeed.

Oh and here.

Now now... I didn't call them brainless now did I...


I understand your frustration with the mechanics, and any resultant combat logging.

But personally, if I see individuals just interdicting other CMDRs seemingly for no reason, and blowing them up, I have a hard time accepting that's a good experience for the victims, and ultimately a good thing for the game.


Now if you're saying in some of these situations there is an actual "great goal" fine... But, (a) if it's role playing then I don't buy it, and (b) if there is an actualy ingame effect maybe that needs to be better "expressed"...

What I witness last night at a CG station was seemingly for nothing more than the CMDRs own entertainment and enjoyment at the grief they could create given the game's non-existant mechanics surrounding such situations. eg: The station management quite happy to watch traders (their life blood) being blown up over and over just a few kilometers away, before then welcoming said inviduals into the station to repair and arm them for more of the same... eg: Why weren't waves of security ships being called in? Because the game doesn't currently give a hoot, this nonsense can carry on, not seemingly by design, but more by oversight IMHO. And again, I personally do not think this sort of behaviour deserves the reward of the victims "staying"... If only to frustrate them into giving up...


ps: While trying my hand at pirating this week, I've had a couple of CMDRs combat log but most haven't. Most have played along and paid up. Some have required some convincing (damage). A couple just wouldn't play ball so I either took cargo by force, and in just a couple of cases even destroyed them. While interdicting one CMDR, two others seemingly came to his rescue, and that was the end of me... Now, this is all well and good as far as I'm concerned Now if I simply interdicted other CMDRs and started trying to destroy them without reason, I wouldn't be the least bit surprised if they logged... Infact given that situation, I wouldn't blame them!

Missed the little note the first time around. Why do I never seem to have such luck? I can pracitcly beg them to stop and shoot all the convincing in the world at them but they won't do it.

 

[Charles Erika von Hackbeil]

I didn't do the powerplay CG for the powerplay but for other reasons that are political outside of powerplay. And again there are a bunch of CGs that can and will have two (or more) sides.

One way Frontier could to some degree could seperate the pew pewers covering up as RPing is by making counter CGs and the likes altough there still would be some decent excuses to not do them especialy if they are made out to be ''the bad guys''. If they do make a counter CG they should certanly not name it that or otherwise I feel like that original CG will get all the attention anyway and it wouldn't have a chance in hell and people would keep on opposing the CG the old way but I would also like if the counter CGs were mainly focused on pirating but that might not always make sense.

The only attention piracy has gotten is really the hatch breakers and cargo scanners and that NPCs now actually export the cargo that's getting exported out of a station and import what is getting imported. I've waited a long time and others have waited even longer, some I bet have turned to ganking becuase of being tired with FD bull and I'm slowly getting there aswell.
As it is now I don't feel very respected when sometimes every 1/6 player DON'T log let alone check the comms.

So you telling me you were not even pledged to Delaine during that CG? How should anyone know about your rp then? You are funny...

And dude, sorry, the points you bring up have been discussed to death in this forums. FD already said they are on this issue and it is very clear to see that the options for meaningful PvP encounters are very rare atm. This won´t get better if you pretend like it´s not. And surely no one will force FD into anything with the "by showing them the flaws of the game"-attitude.

The game is what it is, if you want to change it get a job at FD or go to the suggestions-forum. If you don´t like the game, move on. If you don´t like others quitting on you - just get over it. But don´t expect anyone else to play your game when you lack a reason for your behavior. And bad rp isn´t gonna fix it, cos people don´t buy cheap stuff.

 

[Time Streamer]

I'm at loss here. Never cared much about this kind stuff. Still, I want to share my play style.

So, I'm pledged to a combat faction, and I admit I do attack ALL players on sight that are above Mostly Harmless pledged to any enemy faction while inside my current power influence bubble. If my 'combat gut' tells me it's ok to engage (that is, I have a chance of victory), I'll do it, most of the times with no warning either. People that engage in powerplay must consider the threats of doing so. It's not just looking at rank rewards and hitting the pledge button. If you're pledging then I assume you got the conscience that you're not just buying allies but also foes. I do help people that require help. I'm friendly to anyone that wants to engage in conversation. But behind the cockpit I'm a hunter and a merc and I'll frag you hard with no questions asked if you're in my territory. Really, what's the right decision to make when some hollowed contact pops up pledged to an enemy faction inside of your RES? Or flying around in one of your systems (especially a Control system). I'm not obliged to play PP just for the reward then it's all good. I do take those power regions seriously and honestly I don't see what's really wrong with it. It was designed to 'feel' that way. "Trail your own blaze" they said. I'm not a senseless murder. I'm a pilot who likes to fight. Am I a griefer doing so?

 

[anikaiful]

Did I even mention a CG?

Reading your earlier posts, yes you did.

 

[Comrade Error]

So you telling me you were not even pledged to Delaine during that CG? How should anyone know about your rp then? You are funny...

And dude, sorry, the points you bring up have been discussed to death in this forums. FD already said they are on this issue and it is very clear to see that the options for meaningful PvP encounters are very rare atm. This won´t get better if you pretend like it´s not. And surely no one will force FD into anything with the "by showing them the flaws of the game"-attitude.

The game is what it is, if you want to change it get a job at FD or go to the suggestions-forum. If you don´t like the game, move on. If you don´t like others quitting on you - just get over it. But don´t expect anyone else to play your game when you lack a reason for your behavior. And bad rp isn´t gonna fix it, cos people don´t buy cheap stuff.

PP isn't the only way to RP you know? No I wasn't but I certanly didn't like what the Empire was doing either. Didn't even neccesarly need to be RP I did, I just generaly didn't like it.

The highlighted part, funny. Maybe I should say the same thing to you? Don't like the griefers well move on or get over it, and I lack reason? I've provided plenty of damn reason for my behavior and for others aswell even if that may not be the case. People don't buy cheap stuff? Well that sounds like their problem not mine.

I have gone to the suggestions forums. As I've said every thread whatever it may be gets ignored as the plague if it includes the word pirate. Maybe apart from that one time where a dev came in to discuss how Skype calls work on a thread about making piracy better and FD has been far from clear on the issue.

 

[NeilF]

But we aren't talking about you delivering 20T of Biowaste.

Infact we were talking about Powerplay. You asked a specific question asking if it's unsociable and I took the time to answer you. And then you shoot off onto pastures new? Do you agree Powerplay is different to ganking or not then? ie: It has a clear goal/outcome, and most importantly, is generally between consensual play. ie: Decide to put myself at risk of destruction.

We're talking about you delivering a couple of tons of meta alloys which will then be used to create a UA resistent cargo rack which in turn will make it easier to UA bomb stations.

My griefing example is actually from Vennik, where individuals are blowing up traders coming into the station, and leaving it. Clearly they are role playing one of their mothers was killed by a Land Enrichment unit, so must destroy as many as they can! Or are they just griefing?

- - - - - Additional Content Posted / Auto Merge - - - - -

Reading your earlier posts, yes you did.

Ahh! I see... You responded to (& quoted) a post I made about Powerplay, with no mention of CGs, making comment about CGs...

Are you surprised I'm confused? Here's your response, and the beginning of my confusion - https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showthread.php?t=240392&p=3724525&viewfull=1#post3724525



Regarding CGs and people trying to prevent them, while I sort of understand the premise in some cases... maybe... I just don't think the game caters for it. And maybe this is why any actions to do this risk appearing as little more than mindless griefing.

Note: My specific example of griefing I've witnessed this week was ay Vennik, not Maia. I'd be interesting to hear about a reason why destuction of these traders could be seen as "productive" and nothing more than griefing?

 

[Comrade Error]

Infact we were talking about Powerplay. You asked a specific question asking if it's unsociable and I took the time to answer you. And then you shoot off onto pastures new? Do you agree Powerplay is different to ganking or not then? ie: It has a clear goal/outcome, and most importantly, is generally between consensual play. ie: Decide to put myself at risk of destruction.

My griefing example is actually from Vennik, where individuals are blowing up traders coming into the station, and leaving it. Clearly they are role playing one of their mothers was killed by a Land Enrichment unit, so must destroy as many as they can! Or are they just griefing?

I ask if ''ganking'' at a CG is unsociable how is powerplay not. I asked that twice.

The one in Vennik? Fair enough but did you ask?

 

[Charles Erika von Hackbeil]

PP isn't the only way to RP you know? No I wasn't but I certanly didn't like what the Empire was doing either. Didn't even neccesarly need to be RP I did, I just generaly didn't like it.

I have gone to the suggestions forums. As I've said every thread whatever it may be gets ignored as the plague if it includes the word pirate. Maybe apart from that one time where a dev came in to discuss how Skype calls work on a thread about making piracy better...

Sure it´s not the only way to rp. But now tell me, how should someone know about their role if you don´t show a flag in any way. I always thought the fun about RPing is when your opponents are also aware of their role. Correct me if I´m wrong.

Could you link this thread you are talking about? This "skype-call" thing makes me curious.

 

[shadragon]

In my humble opinion if you choose to log out with aggression from another player in open mode, you should be banned at least a week from open. Clearly you don't want to play in open with another human beings, and in this way the game will help you to choose the mode you really like.

I'll bet a full third of players have crappy Internet connections. I certainly do living on an island in the North Atlantic.

Please describe to me, in detail if you will, how E: D can tell the difference between a player pulling an Ethernet cable and an ISP dropping your connection in the middle of combat? Or power failures, or flaky router dropping out, or whatever.

On the plus side, if you can define that, you have a job waiting for you at Frontier.

 

[NeilF]

I ask if ''ganking'' at a CG is unsociable how is powerplay not. I asked that twice.

And I carefully took the time to answer, to which you didn't acknowledge any aspect of it?

ie:

Powerplay you sign up (raise your flag as Sandro likes to say) and actively choose to do something. If I fly to X to deliver Y to improve my Power's standing, and you (in another power?) decide to blow me up to instead better your Power's standings? Great!

However, if I was simply flying along delivering 20T of Biowaste, not affiliated with Powerplay at all, and in you pop and just blow me up, then that's clearly just being done for the lolz.

Quite different! And ideally the game should differentiate...

The one in Vennik? Fair enough but did you ask?

Fair enough... Next time I'll ask them why they are attacking every ship going in/out... But I think we know the answer

 

[shadragon]

I'm at loss here. Never cared much about this kind stuff. Still, I want to share my play style.

So, I'm pledged to a combat faction, and I admit I do attack ALL players on sight that are above Mostly Harmless pledged to any enemy faction while inside my current power influence bubble. If my 'combat gut' tells me it's ok to engage (that is, I have a chance of victory), I'll do it, most of the times with no warning either. People that engage in powerplay must consider the threats of doing so. It's not just looking at rank rewards and hitting the pledge button. If you're pledging then I assume you got the conscience that you're not just buying allies but also foes. I do help people that require help. I'm friendly to anyone that wants to engage in conversation. But behind the cockpit I'm a hunter and a merc and I'll frag you hard with no questions asked if you're in my territory. Really, what's the right decision to make when some hollowed contact pops up pledged to an enemy faction inside of your RES? Or flying around in one of your systems (especially a Control system). I'm not obliged to play PP just for the reward then it's all good. I do take those power regions seriously and honestly I don't see what's really wrong with it. It was designed to 'feel' that way. "Trail your own blaze" they said. I'm not a senseless murder. I'm a pilot who likes to fight. Am I a griefer doing so?

Can't disagree with your logic and am repping you for the honest answer. The player you are attacking might think of you as a greifer, but if they are in an enemy PP faction, in your sphere of control, then you are certainly in your rights.

Having a single line text macro set up could stop most accusations. "You are in a system controlled by (PP Faction here), leave immediately or be destroyed." Something to let them know what's going on instead of a surprise interdiction followed by wordless pew-pew.

 

[CMDR Pugwash]

I'll bet a full third of players have crappy Internet connections. I certainly do living on an island in the North Atlantic.

Please describe to me, in detail if you will, how E: D can tell the difference between a player pulling an Ethernet cable and an ISP dropping your connection in the middle of combat? Or power failures, or flaky router dropping out, or whatever.

On the plus side, if you can define that, you have a job waiting for you at Frontier.

It is technically possible but would be very expensive to make fool proof. It requires detailed understanding of the connectivity for each client and monitoring to observe it. Then of course it would need to be tamper proof which probably would require a sniffing device. Not going to happen. This is not a military or banking application!

 

[NeilF]

But we aren't talking about you delivering 20T of Biowaste. We're talking about you delivering a couple of tons of meta alloys which will then be used to create a UA resistent cargo rack which in turn will make it easier to UA bomb stations. Or any other CG with two or more sides to it.

BTW! Given the (Maia) CG has already succeeded, and such cargo racks will (I believe) be created, what is gained by destroyed traders/CMDRs at this CG? *confused*

 

[Siobhan]

I'll bet a full third of players have crappy Internet connections. I certainly do living on an island in the North Atlantic.

Please describe to me, in detail if you will, how E: D can tell the difference between a player pulling an Ethernet cable and an ISP dropping your connection in the middle of combat? Or power failures, or flaky router dropping out, or whatever.

On the plus side, if you can define that, you have a job waiting for you at Frontier.

Reading these threads, there are many people... nearly all on the Pro-PK/Anti-Combat-Log side who claim they can tell this with 100% accuracy just from their victim's behaviour. No need to know anything about the connection in advance.

 

[Comrade Error]

BTW! Given the (Maia) CG has already succeeded, and such cargo racks will (I believe) be created, what is gained by destroyed traders/CMDRs at this CG? *confused*

Well that is just salty players I guess. I mean I would continue to disrupt it aswell tbh. People don't really need to keep going if they only cared about the cargo racks either.

- - - - - Additional Content Posted / Auto Merge - - - - -

And I carefully took the time to answer, to which you didn't acknowledge any aspect of it?

ie:




Fair enough... Next time I'll ask them why they are attacking every ship going in/out... But I think we know the answer

And I answered that.

I said that it's not just you moving some worthless biowaste, it's you contributing to whatever CG it is.

I ment fair enough to your point as I couldn't really come up with a way terraforming a planet would have people against it. Maybe if they are extremists and don't think that we should terraform planets or what have you but I doubt anyone actually plays an eco-terrorist.. in space.

 

[Comrade Error]

Sure it´s not the only way to rp. But now tell me, how should someone know about their role if you don´t show a flag in any way. I always thought the fun about RPing is when your opponents are also aware of their role. Correct me if I´m wrong.

Could you link this thread you are talking about? This "skype-call" thing makes me curious.

I edited my post if you wanna take a look at it again.

Sure it can be but I'm RPing for myself not anyone else. What do you want me to do? Interdict that hardcore Empire supporter in a Cutter tell him about my cause and why I am about to murder him?

https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showthread.php?t=238949&page=2&p=3693883#post3693883

Oh and apparently it was just Brett so not actually a dev so that just makes it worse but still the closes to a response we've got..