Food for Thought : Possible Solution to Combat Logging & Stacking of Missions?

[Robert Maynard]

Well I ain't saying that what I say should be taken as law by Frontier (altough please do..) I do voice my complaints that the timer is only so long but I haven't said it's an exploit or that it should be removed because I say so. Frontiers game and they say it's legal, ain't mean I gonna like it. I'm sure it's the same with most others here. So while yes I'm complaining about a thing that's somewhat killing my enjoyment at best it will be taken as a suggestion and it's ment to be that, more or less.

That's a bit thin, maybe I should've said ''There is one mode where PvP already is removed, it's called solo'' or something like that.

Frontier's definition of combat logging does not include the graceful exit from the game using the 15-second delayed exit.

Combat logging, according to Frontier's definition, is the ungraceful exit from the game by killing the process, pulling the plug or otherwise disconnecting from the game without using the graceful exit system.

Regarding the last - some (most?) players are social creatures - however not all players enjoy non-consensual PvP. The best that the social PvE players can achieve is to play in a Private Group and hope that everyone else playing in the PrGr plays by the rules that they agreed to when requesting to join the PrGr.

 

[Comrade Error]

Decided? Or were driven to?



Resetting to my last save affects nobody but myself. And giving up? Not in a PVP game, but in a hybrid game, PVE and PVP together? Where non consensual PK goes unpunished, then generally yes. In my time I've seen games go under because of it too.

Tell me then, how would a person combat logging negatively affect the game for you?

Well that's the question ain't it? Are we going to seek out the first logger or the first ganker and ask who did it first?


No it does not. Where were you going with that and yes give up as you told me your friends gave up on ED or whatever it was because of non-consensual PvP. Tell me if your friends were in a PvP PvE hybrid game would they also give up as soon as they're introduced to the PvP part?

I don't get any cargo? I slowly but surely go bankrupt while at the same time getting a bunch of bounty hunters or whatever it may be on my back?

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My point would be that if you have a complaint about the design of the game, you take your complaint to the designers (i.e. FDEV) and not retaliate by killing other players who can do nothing about the design problem.

And the designer has gone ahead and not replied in a year so yea.

Also if the traders have a problem with the design of the game they should take it up with FDev, well atleast they have gotten a response which would be ''no''.

 

[Siobhan]

I don't get any cargo? I slowly but surely go bankrupt while at the same time getting a bunch of bounty hunters or whatever it may be on my back?

You sure you'd get any anyway? You have 15 seconds during the logout... or not if they pull the plug, but what if they just hit self destruct? I mean, the way things are now where it's shoot first, take what you can and then kill, if I'm going to be rebuying anyway I might as well self destruct and deny you the lot...

Or is that cheating too?

 

[Comrade Error]

Disagree on both accounts I'm afraid.

Are you suggesting a station would happily sit by watching ship after ship being attacked and destroyed just kilometers away? Do you honestly think this makes any sense in the game world, and/or creates a better game play experience? Honestly?

As for your final comment... I'm in favour of combat logging until ganking is fixed in these sorts of scenarios. ie: I see no benefit in feeding these idiotic individuals who in reality are just exploiting poor mechanics and are doing this not to increase their balance, not to increase their rank, infact not to increase any standing within the game, but are doing it solely because they enjoy causing annoyance and aguish to others. That doesn't deserve rewarding. If they can instead be frustrated over and over... all the better IMHO.


And this isn't even discussing how damaging to OPEN such behaviour is ultimately. If Combat Logging was "addressed" and people were then "trapped" in OPEN with gankers/griefers still able to go about these same inane antics, I'd suggest many people would say goodbye to OPEN. Crime and Punishment needs to be addressed first... Then combat logging can be looked at.

If it's one of their own they do not, belive me I've learned that the hard way. Depends on the guy in charge but all we have is that little description saying ''Unfettered'' but it does say they don't care about any laws but their own so why would they really care so much for people outside their organization. Just be happy they can't go about pirating in a station or don't kill randomly people they don't fancy.

But apparently you also do it when an actual pirate comes up to you? Granted the mechanic is broken but that doesn't excuse using another broken mechanic. If anything you can take it up with support as I've been told to do with combat loggers.

Maybe they do not want that thingy whatever people are building there at Maia, wouldn't know myself as I'm kinda excluded. But to call them all brainless idiots is really damn stupid. I once blockaded a system for a very good reason and it would in-fact help the traders going there but no, most either logged or didn't listen after multiple attempts to communicate so we blew them up. Was that playing the BGS or griefing? Who's going to judge what whos intent is? You have a fancy lie detector at hand? I'm sure there are plenty of obvious ones but don't pain everyone opposing a CG with the same brush. As it is now FDev resfuses to even add in another CG where it would be opposing the original one. Like the recent one where pirates were ''contracted'' to rob and or kill traders by the people who sent threats to Palin.



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You sure you'd get any anyway? You have 15 seconds during the logout... or not if they pull the plug, but what if they just hit self destruct? I mean, the way things are now where it's shoot first, take what you can and then kill, if I'm going to be rebuying anyway I might as well self destruct and deny you the lot...

Or is that cheating too?

No, I can syphon you while you self-destruct. Who said I was going to kill afterwards anyway?

 

[NeilF]

But to call them all brainless idiots is really damn stupid. I once blockaded a system for a very good reason and it would in-fact help the traders going there but no, most either logged or didn't listen after multiple attempts to communicate so we blew them up. Was that playing the BGS or griefing? Who's going to judge what whos intent is? You have a fancy lie detector at hand? I'm sure there are plenty of obvious ones but don't pain everyone opposing a CG with the same brush. As it is now FDev resfuses to even add in another CG where it would be opposing the original one. Like the recent one where pirates were ''contracted'' to rob and or kill traders by the people who sent threats to Palin.

Now now... I didn't call them brainless now did I...


I understand your frustration with the mechanics, and any resultant combat logging.

But personally, if I see individuals just interdicting other CMDRs seemingly for no reason, and blowing them up, I have a hard time accepting that's a good experience for the victims, and ultimately a good thing for the game.


Now if you're saying in some of these situations there is an actual "greater goal" fine... But, (a) if it's role playing then I don't buy it, and (b) if there is an actualy ingame effect maybe that needs to be better "expressed"...

What I witness last night at a CG station was seemingly for nothing more than the CMDRs own entertainment and enjoyment at the grief they could create given the game's non-existant mechanics surrounding such situations. eg: The station management quite happy to watch traders (their life blood) being blown up over and over just a few kilometers away, before then welcoming said inviduals into the station to repair and arm them for more of the same... eg: Why weren't waves of security ships being called in? Because the game doesn't currently give a hoot, this nonsense can carry on, not seemingly by design, but more by oversight IMHO. And again, I personally do not think this sort of behaviour deserves the reward of the victims "staying"... If only to frustrate them into giving up...


ps: While trying my hand at pirating this week, I've had a couple of CMDRs combat log but most haven't. Most have played along and paid up. Some have required some convincing (damage). A couple just wouldn't play ball so I either took cargo by force, and in just a couple of cases even destroyed them. While interdicting one CMDR, two others seemingly came to his rescue, and that was the end of me... Now, this is all well and good as far as I'm concerned Now if I simply interdicted other CMDRs and started trying to destroy them without reason, I wouldn't be the least bit surprised if they logged... Infact given that situation, I wouldn't blame them!

 

[Comrade Error]

Now now... I didn't call them brainless now did it...

I understand your frustration with the mechanics, and any resultant combat logging.

But personally, if I see individuals just interdicting other CMDRs seemingly for no reason, and blowing them up, I have a hard time accepting that's a good experience for the victims, and ultimately a good thing for the game.

Now if you're saying in some of these situations there is an actual "great goal" fine... But, (a) if it's role playing then I don't buy it, and (b) if there is an actualy ingame effect maybe that needs to be better "expressed"...

What I witness last night at a CG station was seemingly for nothing more than a the CMDRs own entertainment and enjoyment at the grief they could create given the game's non-existant mechanics surrounding such situations. eg: The station management quite happy to watch traders (their life blood) being blown up over and over just a few kilometers away, before then welcoming said inviduals into the station to repair and arm them for more of the same... eg: Why weren't waves of security ships being called in? Because the game doesn't currently give a hoot, so this nonsense can carry on, not by design, but by oversight IMHO. And again, I personally do not think this sort of behaviour deserves the reward of the victims "staying"... If only to frustrate them into giving up...

Why don't you buy people trying to stop a community goal from completing are RPing? You buy that people doing powerplay and killing players to oppose undermining and such can be RPing right? Yea it definetly could be more expressed, like actual consequences for failing a community goal or if the opposing side wins. Consequences in the lore atleast.



If it was any of the thousands of systems which doesn't have an anarchistic goverment then the game would care. The station managment just so happens to be criminals who do not care what so ever for anybody but their own. Hell I bet they're just enjoying life for as long as they are in charge, they also most likely got in charge because of all the UAs (which are illegal) getting sold to the black market and took the place by force. Hell a previous CG might be directly responsible for this (which now that I think about it is actually a nice consequence).

 

[Charles Erika von Hackbeil]

Why don't you buy people trying to stop a community goal from completing are RPing?

Are you really serious about that? Come on, people ain´t that stupid.

 

[Comrade Error]

Are you really serious about that? Come on, people ain´t that stupid.

I've done it a couple of times. Like that time Arissa or whoever it was was opposing Archon in that CG. Or are you going to respond ''I'm no idiot! You really think I'm buying someone wants to protect their intersts in a game? Hah!''

 

[Charles Erika von Hackbeil]

I've done it a couple of times. Like that time Arissa or whoever it was was opposing Archon in that CG. Or are you going to respond ''I'm no idiot! You really think I'm buying someone wants to protect their intersts in a game? Hah!''

Maybe you did, idk. But there´s no point to roleplaying when you never tell your "victim" what´s going on. If all the Texas-style CMDRs (shoot first - ask later) are just roleplaying, then sorry, I totally missed the point of it.

But sadly, no one ever told me about it. So should I maybe just feel it?

 

[Comrade Error]

Maybe you did, idk. But there´s no point to roleplaying when you never tell your "victim" what´s going on. If all the Texas-style CMDRs (shoot first - ask later) are just roleplaying, then sorry, I totally missed the point of it.

But sadly, no one ever told me about it. So should I maybe just feel it?

I didn't tell anyone about it in the CZ or just outside of it, but there you go.

 

[Charles Erika von Hackbeil]

I didn't tell anyone about it in the CZ or just outside of it, but there you go.

What´s your point? I don´t get it.

I think there is a difference between a CZ with a fixed framework and the stuff usually going on during a CG in open.

 

[Comrade Error]

What´s your point? I don´t get it.

I think there is a difference between a CZ with a fixed framework and the stuff usually going on during a CG in open.

I was mostly interdicting people going from the CZ to the base to cash in their vouchers sometimes taking pot shots at enemies inside the CZ.

Speaking of not getting points, I'm not getting yours. So I have to tell my victims what is going on?

In a CG there can be multiple sides just like in PP. It should be taken as a possibly hazardous place if you are picking any sides.

 

[Chrystoph]

I think you also don't understand the rules of the game.
If you consent to playing with others and they attack you, then you cannot hold them as a player (not their ingame character) responsible for it, which is what you are implying - namely that the attacking party is violating the terms of use and should be punished outside the justice system of the game for attacking you.

In essence, you are making the attacking player responsible for the trader CHOOSING on their own free will, to play in open. And frankly, that idea sounds a bit ridiculous to me.

It's also not about blaming someone, it's merely expressing the rules of gameplay. It's up to you to make your own game experience enjoyable and if you choose the wrong game mode, please don't blame the consequences of your decision on others.

And yes, the same goes for NPCs - are you going to blame Sarah Jane if another NPC blows you up at an inconvenient time instead of blaming the individual player?

I think that you want to violate the social contract, but you don't want to admit that that is what you are doing, so you try to shift the blame for your own actions to the other player.

This is especially evident in the fact that you have selectively quoted me out of context. You left out all of the parts where I said that the trader playing in Open should know the risks, presumably so that you could misconstrue my statement. That's ok, though, I'll add it back in for you since you cannot seem to argue effectively without a misconstruance.

I'll add my own, Rubbish! You are blaming the victim for the assaulting player's actions. That argument is not even valid for NPCs. The person ATTACKING the trader is responsible for the attack, not the person they choose to attack.

I won't deny that the person logging into Open (if they understand what Open is, which is questionable for new players) should be aware of the risks, but let's not delude ourselves that you are not responsible for your own actions.

Elsewise, the PvP pirates owe me for my copy of E and need to pay me, not my character, but me, so that I am beholden to them and they can demand that I be available to them. That way, they are responsible for my actions, whereas I will never be responsible for theirs.

See, I am willing to admit that the player trader is responsible for choosing to play in Open. You seem to think that it is that player's fault that you choose to attack them, yet the sentence itself belies that mindset. "...that you choose to attack them..."

My final thought, and I did not create the meme, is shown below:

​

 

[NeilF]

Why don't you buy people trying to stop a community goal from completing are RPing?

Because any reason you fancy then accounts for unsociable behaviour.

Yes, all four of us are blowing you up and all your type of scum because his mum was run over by a T9 just like your when he as young - Sorry, don't buy it!

If it was any of the thousands of systems which doesn't have an anarchistic goverment then the game would care. The station managment just so happens to be criminals who do not care what so ever for anybody but their own. Hell I bet they're just enjoying life for as long as they are in charge, they also most likely got in charge because of all the UAs (which are illegal) getting sold to the black market and took the place by force. Hell a previous CG might be directly responsible for this (which now that I think about it is actually a nice consequence).

Possibly... Maybe... But it's odd how the only people enforcing this are seemingly CMDRs using it as an excuse for nothing more than griefing. Again, not a single in game stat increased or benefited.... Just their need to grief others fulfilled...


Now this of course is all my opinion... Seems we disagree on this matter...

 

[Comrade Error]

Because any reason you fancy then accounts for unsociable behaviour.

Yes, all four of us are blowing you up and all your type of scum because his mum was run over by a T9 just like your when he as young - Sorry, don't buy it!


Possibly... Maybe... But it's odd how the only people enforcing this are seemingly CMDRs using it as an excuse for nothing more than griefing. Again, not a single in game stat increased or benefited.... Just their need to grief others fulfilled...


Now this of course is all my opinion... Seems we disagree on this matter...

So powerplay is also unsociable behavior?

Nobody is enforcing anything other than their own interests if they are there to make sure there won't come a weapon in cargo rack which weaponizes UAs even more than they did before.

 

[Charles Erika von Hackbeil]

I was mostly interdicting people going from the CZ to the base to cash in their vouchers sometimes taking pot shots at enemies inside the CZ.

Speaking of not getting points, I'm not getting yours. So I have to tell my victims what is going on?

In a CG there can be multiple sides just like in PP. It should be taken as a possibly hazardous place if you are picking any sides.

You are one of the good guys, that´s for sure

But you shouldn´t be unfair, the CG you describing is unique. Idk if we ever had one again where two powers were opposing directly. It had a perfect rp framework.

Usually CGs are a honeypot for the triggerhappy. I think thats quite normal, ED is not the first game where this happens and won´t be the last. But it was by far the worst idea born from this forums to come up with RPing as a cover for people who basically just want to pew pew. Or even calling it "emerging gameplay". I feel like you are going into this direction a little bit

Be patient. FD will fix pirate mechanics, they will fix crime & punishment. It all will get better. Until then give respect to other players as you would like to be respected in you style of play and we all will be fine.
If you are not able to do this then you will always meet other players who just don´t want to play with a disrespectful person like you pretend to be. Not everyone unterstands this game like you do. Communication is key.

 

[Riktar]

What I witness last night at a CG station was seemingly for nothing more than the CMDRs own entertainment and enjoyment at the grief they could create given the game's non-existant mechanics surrounding such situations. eg: The station management quite happy to watch traders (their life blood) being blown up over and over just a few kilometers away, before then welcoming said inviduals into the station to repair and arm them for more of the same... eg: Why weren't waves of security ships being called in? Because the game doesn't currently give a hoot, this nonsense can carry on, not seemingly by design, but more by oversight IMHO. And again, I personally do not think this sort of behaviour deserves the reward of the victims "staying"... If only to frustrate them into giving up...

+1

As many times as this has been requested I am surprised that little (if any) has been done to "enhance" a stations ability to see whats going on right outside it's doorway.
I am imagining (for my own sense of humor) the following:

Scene: Security Station, a security officer is monitoring activity outside while sipping coffee and talking on the phone.

"Yup, another boring shift,,,, oh wait a minute,,,, a trader is getting lit up again!!! Oooooh! that's the prettiest explosion yet!!! Yup I,,, wait, hang on a minute, I have to give this bad guy permission to dock. What for? I don't know, maybe to re-arm? Heck he only has so many bullets, you know...."

And later (While still talking on the phone),,,,,

"Would you look at that? Hey, Fred, know how to make a "Trader Sandwich"? You fit a T-6 between two Anacondas!!!" (Laughs hysterically while the T6 goes "POP",,,,,) "I tell yah, I don't know what's funnier, these rubes thinking they can get here without getting shot at or thinking I will do something about it...."

And still later (And STILL on the phone and drinking coffee),,,,,

"Yup not much longer before,,,,,,"

Suddenly a shot hits the station. No damage, but just enough of a shudder that the security officer's coffee is splashed onto his shirt,,,,,

"Son of a B.... Weapons station! Open fire on that Asp!! Why?!?!?!?,,,,, I don't care if he's trying to defend himself,,,, you should see what he did to my shirt!!!"

Ensuing weapons fire makes short work of the Asp.

"Good on you!! Learn to aim Noob!! Maybe next time you will,,,," (pauses) "Battle rigged Anaconda, you are cleared to land"

And re load.

 

[Comrade Error]

You are one of the good guys, that´s for sure

But you shouldn´t be unfair, the CG you describing is unique. Idk if we ever had one again where two powers were opposing directly. It had a perfect rp framework.

Usually CGs are a honeypot for the triggerhappy. I think thats quite normal, ED is not the first game where this happens and won´t be the last. But it was by far the worst idea born from this forums to come up with RPing as a cover for people who basically just want to pew pew. Or even calling it "emerging gameplay". I feel like you are going into this direction a little bit

Be patient. FD will fix pirate mechanics, they will fix crime & punishment. It all will get better. Until then give respect to other players as you would like to be respected in you style of play and we all will be fine.
If you are not able to do this then you will always meet other players who just don´t want to play with a disrespectful person like you pretend to be. Not everyone unterstands this game like you do. Communication is key.

I didn't do the powerplay CG for the powerplay but for other reasons that are political outside of powerplay. And again there are a bunch of CGs that can and will have two (or more) sides.

One way Frontier could to some degree could seperate the pew pewers covering up as RPing is by making counter CGs and the likes altough there still would be some decent excuses to not do them especialy if they are made out to be ''the bad guys''. If they do make a counter CG they should certanly not name it that or otherwise I feel like that original CG will get all the attention anyway and it wouldn't have a chance in hell and people would keep on opposing the CG the old way but I would also like if the counter CGs were mainly focused on pirating but that might not always make sense.

The only attention piracy has gotten is really the hatch breakers and cargo scanners and that NPCs now actually export the cargo that's getting exported out of a station and import what is getting imported. I've waited a long time and others have waited even longer, some I bet have turned to ganking becuase of being tired with FD bull and I'm slowly getting there aswell.
As it is now I don't feel very respected when sometimes every 1/6 player DON'T log let alone check the comms.

 

[anikaiful]

+1

As many times as this has been requested I am surprised that little (if any) has been done to "enhance" a stations ability to see whats going on right outside it's doorway.
I am imagining (for my own sense of humor) the following:

Scene: Security Station, a security officer is monitoring activity outside while sipping coffee and talking on the phone.

"Yup, another boring shift,,,, oh wait a minute,,,, a trader is getting lit up again!!! Oooooh! that's the prettiest explosion yet!!! Yup I,,, wait, hang on a minute, I have to give this bad guy permission to dock. What for? I don't know, maybe to re-arm? Heck he only has so many bullets, you know...."

And later (While still talking on the phone),,,,,

"Would you look at that? Hey, Fred, know how to make a "Trader Sandwich"? You fit a T-6 between two Anacondas!!!" (Laughs hysterically while the T6 goes "POP",,,,,) "I tell yah, I don't know what's funnier, these rubes thinking they can get here without getting shot at or thinking I will do something about it...."

And still later (And STILL on the phone and drinking coffee),,,,,

"Yup not much longer before,,,,,,"

Suddenly a shot hits the station. No damage, but just enough of a shudder that the security officer's coffee is splashed onto his shirt,,,,,

"Son of a B.... Weapons station! Open fire on that Asp!! Why?!?!?!?,,,,, I don't care if he's trying to defend himself,,,, you should see what he did to my shirt!!!"

Ensuing weapons fire makes short work of the Asp.

"Good on you!! Learn to aim Noob!! Maybe next time you will,,,," (pauses) "Battle rigged Anaconda, you are cleared to land"

And re load.

heh. Actually, it's not hard at all to think that's *exactly* the case. The stations don't give a hoot as long as you're a paying customer, but woe on you if you damage the station property (or spill anyone's coffee).

 

[Comrade Error]

+1

As many times as this has been requested I am surprised that little (if any) has been done to "enhance" a stations ability to see whats going on right outside it's doorway.
I am imagining (for my own sense of humor) the following:

Scene: Security Station, a security officer is monitoring activity outside while sipping coffee and talking on the phone.

"Yup, another boring shift,,,, oh wait a minute,,,, a trader is getting lit up again!!! Oooooh! that's the prettiest explosion yet!!! Yup I,,, wait, hang on a minute, I have to give this bad guy permission to dock. What for? I don't know, maybe to re-arm? Heck he only has so many bullets, you know...."

And later (While still talking on the phone),,,,,

"Would you look at that? Hey, Fred, know how to make a "Trader Sandwich"? You fit a T-6 between two Anacondas!!!" (Laughs hysterically while the T6 goes "POP",,,,,) "I tell yah, I don't know what's funnier, these rubes thinking they can get here without getting shot at or thinking I will do something about it...."

And still later (And STILL on the phone and drinking coffee),,,,,

"Yup not much longer before,,,,,,"

Suddenly a shot hits the station. No damage, but just enough of a shudder that the security officer's coffee is splashed onto his shirt,,,,,

"Son of a B.... Weapons station! Open fire on that Asp!! Why?!?!?!?,,,,, I don't care if he's trying to defend himself,,,, you should see what he did to my shirt!!!"

Ensuing weapons fire makes short work of the Asp.

"Good on you!! Learn to aim Noob!! Maybe next time you will,,,," (pauses) "Battle rigged Anaconda, you are cleared to land"

And re load.

Funny but rarely how it is.

Should I tell you how many bounty hunters and or gankers I've made shoot the station and get themselfs killed? Don't do turrets kids.

Altough I will tell you their aim ain't the best. I sometimes shoot bounty hunters and what have you that are waiting for me at a station, station does get maaad no denying that.