It's actually very lenient, even with engineered death weapons, it has been changed several times. Now, if you target another player or NPC, and then shoot... That's a different matter.
ANNOUNCEMENT Game Balancing Pt.2
A constructive criticism (i hope)
First off, I would differentiate bounty “farming” AI : killing endless waves of random pirates in HAZ RES. And bounty “hunting” AI assasinate missions.
here i’ll focus on bounty “farming” with massacre missions.
It seems that bounty “farming” can yield as many credits/hours as laser mining IF you get lucky with your massacre mission stacking.
This is still not right, combat should yield more credit/hours than laser mining (numbers include the time for staking missions). Either combat is still under paying or mining needs another nerf.
While this bounty value increase feels very nice compared to what got before. I still see some other problems gameplay wise. Massacre mission stacking is boring and inconvenient :
-Having to get several missions from several stations and having to get back to theses stations in order to collect your rewards feels annoying. Plus, this process is highly unreliable and based on luck.
-Having a set number of pirates to kill to complete a mission feels inconvenient. Because of the relative short time to complete the mission (~24h), I feel constrained to kill those 15 last pirates before I can collect my rewards even if I am not in the mood anymore. And on the other hand if I am still in the mood to kill pirates, but am out of missions, i have to get back to missions stacking or i “lose value”, breaking the gameplay flow.
-When taking massacre missions from a system “A”, I will kill pirates in the target system “B”, collecting the bounties from those pirates in system “B”. So, to collect my bounties, I have to dock in a station in system “B” to collect my bounties before getting back to system “A” to hand in my finished massacre missions. adding to the "annoying" part.
This whole process of massacre missions stacking is very complicated, when compared to mining, where the gameplay loop is a lot less convoluted : jump to mining system -> mine -> jump to selling station -> sell.
Here are my propositions :
-buff again the bounties (x2 maybe ?)
-remove massacre mission stacking, killing one pirate should count toward 1 mission and not 5-6 missions, buff those missions accordingly and remove the 50 mil reward cap.
-increase the massacre mission timer from “a day to complete” to “a week to complete”
-add a new type of mission, “system cleansing” missions, that are basically massacre missions were the target system is the system giving the mission, where a faction asks the commander to get rid of annoying pirate thugs making trouble in that system. that way commanders can get all rewards from their work without having to dock here and there.
(don't stack with massacre missions).
TLDR :
-bounty hunting is still underpaying compared to mining, even with massacre missions
-buff basic bounties again
-Massacre missions stacking is annoying, unreliable and luck-based to set up, remove it. one pirate kill should count for one mission not more
-Buff the payout of massacre missions accordingly, remove the 50mil cap.
-increase the mission timer from "24h to finish" to "a week to finish".
-add a new type of mission that are massacre mission were the target system is the system giving the mission
First off, I would differentiate bounty “farming” AI : killing endless waves of random pirates in HAZ RES. And bounty “hunting” AI assasinate missions.
here i’ll focus on bounty “farming” with massacre missions.
It seems that bounty “farming” can yield as many credits/hours as laser mining IF you get lucky with your massacre mission stacking.
This is still not right, combat should yield more credit/hours than laser mining (numbers include the time for staking missions). Either combat is still under paying or mining needs another nerf.
While this bounty value increase feels very nice compared to what got before. I still see some other problems gameplay wise. Massacre mission stacking is boring and inconvenient :
-Having to get several missions from several stations and having to get back to theses stations in order to collect your rewards feels annoying. Plus, this process is highly unreliable and based on luck.
-Having a set number of pirates to kill to complete a mission feels inconvenient. Because of the relative short time to complete the mission (~24h), I feel constrained to kill those 15 last pirates before I can collect my rewards even if I am not in the mood anymore. And on the other hand if I am still in the mood to kill pirates, but am out of missions, i have to get back to missions stacking or i “lose value”, breaking the gameplay flow.
-When taking massacre missions from a system “A”, I will kill pirates in the target system “B”, collecting the bounties from those pirates in system “B”. So, to collect my bounties, I have to dock in a station in system “B” to collect my bounties before getting back to system “A” to hand in my finished massacre missions. adding to the "annoying" part.
This whole process of massacre missions stacking is very complicated, when compared to mining, where the gameplay loop is a lot less convoluted : jump to mining system -> mine -> jump to selling station -> sell.
Here are my propositions :
-buff again the bounties (x2 maybe ?)
-remove massacre mission stacking, killing one pirate should count toward 1 mission and not 5-6 missions, buff those missions accordingly and remove the 50 mil reward cap.
-increase the massacre mission timer from “a day to complete” to “a week to complete”
-add a new type of mission, “system cleansing” missions, that are basically massacre missions were the target system is the system giving the mission, where a faction asks the commander to get rid of annoying pirate thugs making trouble in that system. that way commanders can get all rewards from their work without having to dock here and there.
(don't stack with massacre missions).
TLDR :
-bounty hunting is still underpaying compared to mining, even with massacre missions
-buff basic bounties again
-Massacre missions stacking is annoying, unreliable and luck-based to set up, remove it. one pirate kill should count for one mission not more
-Buff the payout of massacre missions accordingly, remove the 50mil cap.
-increase the mission timer from "24h to finish" to "a week to finish".
-add a new type of mission that are massacre mission were the target system is the system giving the mission
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You don't mention massacre missions generating USS. Perhaps you are not aware of this.
It has happened to me twice within 48 hour now. This used to be a problem with PvE bounty counting at RES sites some years ago, but was fortunately fixed. That problem hasn't happenend to me playing solo since then.
What happened again to me is that I was bounty hunting at a compromized nav beacon when another online player appeared there. I did my best to keep away from him but after a while he apparanty managed to get in the line of fire for a short time and immediately I was marked as wanted.
Yes, I'm flying a maximum engineered Corvette, but this never happens to me with PvE players. I'm at combat rank Dangerous being halfway to Elite, so I'm not a total beginner at combat either.
What I am suggesting is that the same threshold levels should be used with friendly fire at PvP players as are currently being used when accidentily fireing at PvE ships.
i am aware, but the issues of MM stacking still are present, not only from a credit point of view.
Difficult for me to respond to that.*
Probably you are are correct.
*Kill everyone, even Kumo.
You can avoid the present concerns with missions by not wasting the time to find and stack them and just head out to a favourite RES, (C)Nav Beacon or pirate USS and shoot anything wanted, no time limits no quotas no need to visit other systems to collect payments (as long as you don’t use a KWS).
Yes you will lose a few million in mission payments and a few other rewards but you save all the hassle associated with missions.
The problem is that MM hassle is required to just hope getting close to mining payouts. It represent well over half of the credit income, wich doesn't feel right.
Should bounty hunt be as lucrative as mining without any mission ? I think so. But then, missions should not get it too much higher. and if they are a hassle, nobody would bother.
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Why not just make a 20/40 control group?
5/10 will be trading.
5/10 will do research.
5/10 will be engaged in fights.
5/10 will be mining.
Everyone will start from the very start and their goal will be to buy an anaconda and set the maximum fit including reactive armor (pre-negotiated build).
Already based on this data and the time spent in each group to achieve the goal, rebalance and adjust.
There are only three problems:
1. Where can I find 20/40 people ready for this?
2. Time that will have to be spent on tests and a lot of work on rebuilding what is already there.
3. The human factor of testers.
The version of rebalancing everything in the game that I see now looks like a panic attempt to fix something that is not fully understood.
btw: At the same time, during this test, you can check the options for pumping money out of the game in order to keep the economy in the millions, not billions.
5/10 will be trading.
5/10 will do research.
5/10 will be engaged in fights.
5/10 will be mining.
Everyone will start from the very start and their goal will be to buy an anaconda and set the maximum fit including reactive armor (pre-negotiated build).
Already based on this data and the time spent in each group to achieve the goal, rebalance and adjust.
There are only three problems:
1. Where can I find 20/40 people ready for this?
2. Time that will have to be spent on tests and a lot of work on rebuilding what is already there.
3. The human factor of testers.
The version of rebalancing everything in the game that I see now looks like a panic attempt to fix something that is not fully understood.
btw: At the same time, during this test, you can check the options for pumping money out of the game in order to keep the economy in the millions, not billions.
I reread all the posts from yesterday ... It's nice to see that there are adults and head-thinking players. I would venture to suggest that all these are people who are already over 30, who have families, children, work, home, car, etc. Who have neither the time nor the desire to try to outperform the young who have a train of time or streamers who can play for half a day. I hope, dear developers, you will all the same return the prices for fossils of the popular group to those stated at the beginning ... even at a price of 600k per 1 ton of painite, this is already a serious blow to the pocket of miners ... I hope you will also increase the total payments for other types of activities, one-time is not so important. I am very glad that for all this time 6 years this is a lot of overs for games ... the game is alive and developing. The game constantly has something to do, save stations, provide superpowers, discover engineers, make wild jumps on aircraft carriers to some goal, crush thargoids ... But in every barrel of honey there is a fly in the ointment: There are people who constantly want everyone to be like them , to express oneself at the expense of others ... The elite is not a sport or an army in the literal sense of this expression ... this is not necessary here ...
From suggestions:
1) Raise the price of painite to the declared price (600,000), even if at 3 stations and not at all ...
2) More often hold events of war between superpowers, tripartite conflicts (Empire and Federation against Thargoids),
3) Raise payments for conflict zones, in case of victory, double vouchers. In case of a loss, reduce it by half.
4) Make pirates stronger on mining belts and increase the reward for them
5) Make missions to patrol the area for a reward (like I haven't met such) For example, the same mining point on the rings.
Okay, for now I will finish ... work awaits ... but I can come up with 30-50 mission ideas ... which will become alternatives to the rest of the methods.
From suggestions:
1) Raise the price of painite to the declared price (600,000), even if at 3 stations and not at all ...
2) More often hold events of war between superpowers, tripartite conflicts (Empire and Federation against Thargoids),
3) Raise payments for conflict zones, in case of victory, double vouchers. In case of a loss, reduce it by half.
4) Make pirates stronger on mining belts and increase the reward for them
5) Make missions to patrol the area for a reward (like I haven't met such) For example, the same mining point on the rings.
Okay, for now I will finish ... work awaits ... but I can come up with 30-50 mission ideas ... which will become alternatives to the rest of the methods.
It needs more (and more) buff. Please compare the hourly winnings of other professions. Combat is more risky (even riskier if you are in a big buffed ship, see re buy costs), so the hourly pay, if you just combatting should win you much more from anything else.
Pretty please FIX THE PWA! It's okay for me that you adjust the payments. And it seems to cause positive reactions across players. At least some are pleased with the new bounty hunting payouts. And even if i not agree with you nerf the payouts for mining, i can definitly live with it so far. But i get furious about you ignoring us miners since SEPTEBER 2020 about fixing the PWA! Core mining is one, if not the favorite things to do for me in ED. I love this mechanics. First find a core, then crack the rock open (after thousands i still love the blast, sound, force) and finally collect. But since September 20 the "finding part" is messed up. I don't care if the payouts are nerfed to the ground, but PLEASE make the mechanics work again properly. The Scanner scans obviously in the wrong direction. Sometimes related to camera, sometimes related to ship. There are lots of reports about that and you can't tell me you don't know about it. So please, with cherry on top, fix this finally so core mining gets fun again, well paid or not.
1.How many cash laser mining can give now? Someone tested it now, or you still compare everything with pre-balance mining?
2.Ekhem, with stacking massacres 100-120m/h was doable BEFORE bounty buff, now I see people, which can earn 20-40m in hour with only bounty, so I doubt, that this is worse than mining.
IMO this should work this way. Combat-good. Combat with missions- very good. We just need, as I talked, split mission boards on few contacts- combat/trade/mining/other missions contacts, so no more 20 planetary scanns and 0 other missions.
And no, stacking massacres isn't complicated.
Go to station.
Take massacres.
Kill, kill hail and kill.
Back to station.
Ok, can you talk, that you must find good system, if you don't care 20k ls cruise Achenar is great, all factions have massacres to only Alacagui I think, but you know...mining require it too. In both scenarios you can use tools to find good system in few seconds, or search it alone.
You guys still complain, that money in this game is TOO EASY, but I see, that you literally want 100m/h from BH and 250 from BH with missions, the easiest combat. What next? 500m from combat zones? 1b from AX?
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Some combat is risky- PvE combat outside of Thargoids and certain human POIs is more akin to shooting ducks especially in large engineered ships.
I'd only advocate more cash if NPCs got out the big boy toys more often at the highest ranks. As an example, I can easily fight two or three pirate lords at the same time.
well you are right that rebuy does sort of add risk, it doesnt need to be hapenong often to be a risk, but i feel like if they buff PVE to much it will just become a new OP grind like mining was.
So simple. More money? Again? Good. But buff the best pirates to level "oh no, my shiny g5 vette has trouble and nearly caboom.
BTW. Combat is riskier in bigger ship? what? What is more risky, 50m rebuy in immortal god of war, machine of eternal glory, choosen of Khorne, or 10m rebuy in average ship, which can go caboom during fight with one good pirate? Big ships AREN'T more risky, maybe you have massive rebuy, but you are nearly immortal, and 100% immortal if you think about what are you doing
. I don't remember rebuy in big toy. But I remember rebuys in small-med ships
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Either that, or vary the ships you come across. Maybe have two pirate Corvettes, or one with phasing weapons, or a flock of G5 sidewinders. Just make them right sods so you earn that 10 million.
Just not the same PA Vette, FdL and Vultures.
That's the NPC Pirate Lord must have group. If something else, they'd not be accepted as a Lord by their peers.
Yes.
Top pirates should be fully engineered and has troll weapons. You want real reward? Fight with real enemy, now deadly vettes from top missions are as weak, than we can destroy it in literally any ship. In big toy by damage sponge, or in eagle by dancing around rounds without getting any hits.
Mining shouldn't be more profitable than combat, but guys...look at pirates in beacons and RES, you even doesn't need strongly engineered ship to be immortal, and you want 60-100m/h without any missions...
Top pirates should be fully engineered and has troll weapons. You want real reward? Fight with real enemy, now deadly vettes from top missions are as weak, than we can destroy it in literally any ship. In big toy by damage sponge, or in eagle by dancing around rounds without getting any hits.
Mining shouldn't be more profitable than combat, but guys...look at pirates in beacons and RES, you even doesn't need strongly engineered ship to be immortal, and you want 60-100m/h without any missions...
yes PVE Combat in things like a G5 vette doesnt seem dificult at least when i see my friend do it in his and the builds i desinged on the internet also have high dps and high tank abilities so i cant really see whats suposed to be so difficult in fighting some NPC pirate in a vette/Cutter (seen some of these in action and while cutter turns slow it makes up for it in tank)So simple. More money? Again? Good. But buff the best pirates to level "oh no, my shiny g5 vette has trouble and nearly caboom.
BTW. Combat is riskier in bigger ship? what? What is more risky, 50m rebuy in immortal god of war, machine of eternal glory, choosen of Khorne, or 10m rebuy in average ship, which can go caboom during fight with one good pirate? Big ships AREN'T more risky, maybe you have massive rebuy, but you are nearly immortal, and 100% immortal if you think about what are you doing