ANNOUNCEMENT Game Balancing Pt.3

[Zannry]

no offence mate but I would love to see you load a carrier in 3hrs with a cutter or T9 by yourself... nvm unload with current messed up rate on transfering goods from carrier to the ship. it takes me over a minute just to move 640T of cargo From carrier to ship and other way round as well. Your figures don't add up, it sounds more like a whine up. 600mil/hr trading? I'm not buying it

If you read my full post you'll see 150-200 million is the sustained rate. The 600 million I mention was the hour it took to offload 7.9k tons of palladium. 11 round trips. I need 33 full trips to fill to capacity. 34 I've I really want that last 310 tons to get to the 24070 max space after services for me.

If you can't make 11 round trips with a FC parked next to the station I suggest upgrading your drives. While I'd never describe a Cutter as "nimble" I use the same cutter for AX combat and the grade 5 dirty drives get me in and out of stations fast and efficiently.

Also, if you really want to skip the manual transfer you could speed the process up immensely by setting op a sell order and setting your carrier to private. This way you can use the commodity market to load from the FC, sell to the target station. The commodity market in the target station to restock and either the transfer all button or a buy order from the FC to offload.

Just because you haven't been able to replicate my results doesn't make my numbers wrong. I may just be doing things more efficiently than your experience suggests is possible but solidly within what is possible.

 

[Guyperson]

I do think the lower bound for transport missions needs to be bumped up. In Shinrarta, for example, I'm seeing missions asking me to move 180 commodities for 200k. That's not much for a mission like that.

Personally, I think the commodity being moved should have little to no bearing on the price at all. Why would it? It's not relevant to you moving it somewhere.

They should pay out per ton at a rate competitive with a good bulk trading route, plus some extra for the inefficiency of doing haulage through the mission board. The bonus for the value of the goods really should just be for risking the fine.

 

[LMAOCanda]

To be successful in state trading you can't rely on 3rd party tools for good buy prices. The supply is gone or quickly will be by the time you show up. You need to know how the states affect buy and sell prices get there first.

What works for me after the commodity volatility update is this:

1) Buy Water Purifiers on the cheap 150cr +/-. Boom state high population High tech or industrial systems are your best bet. 35 trips with a 720 capacity cutter will fill my FC and takes roughly 3 hours.
2) Switch to a Python and check your galaxy map. Set you filter for state and check the infrastructure failure box. You are looking for Extraction or Refinery economies in this state. The higher the system population the better. Best time is after the tick in the morning but you can still find good deals even later at night (EST here).
3) Load your python up with the water purifiers and bee line to that system. In the local system map check. You want to check that the station shows the correct economy and state combination. Fly to the station and check inventory. You can generally sell the water purifiers for around 2k/ton. Us that to offset the costs or Silver/Gold and Palladium which can be bought for 3-5k/ton in these systems.
3) If their is sufficient quantities to justify jumping your FC do it. Ideally the target station has large pads and you can switch back to a cutter or type9. Basically every ton of purifiers you sell you clear up space to replace it with a better value commodity. Once topped up just back to a system detail in step 1 and offload.

720 tons purifiers 1.2 million profit a delivery
720 tons of palladium 47 million profit a delivery (selling at 72K/ton)
720 tons of Gold 44 million profit a delivery (selling at 66K/ton)
720 tons of Silver 33 million profit a delivery (selling at 48K/ton)

Takes about 3 hours to load, 3 hours to offload. Even if you strike out at a system you can still load up on Berylium or 2-3 other metal or minerals that you can buy at 10% of value and sell for 10-17k/ton profit at average prices. If you spend 5 minutes every day looking at the system in these states you start you recognize which are new markets and have potential over what has already be picked over.

So essentially you are grabbing goodie at cheap price right after server tick? before third party tool notice everyone? How dramatic is the price change after tick?
Sound like I have to play at specific time and have a FC to pull that off.

 

[Speedcuffs]

I was just in a high intensity combat zone, specifically picked a fight with spec op alpha, and you know what i got for killing him?

49k bond.

C'mon man.

Was that the credits showing in the top right of the HUD, or what actually got added to your bonds?

From OP:
'...the HUD will not reflect the new figure after a kill, but the transaction tab will. These may (rarely) appear to be issued by the Pilot's Federation.'

 

[Zannry]

So essentially you are grabbing goodie at cheap price right after server tick? before third party tool notice everyone? How dramatic is the price change after tick?
Sound like I have to play at specific time and have a FC to pull that off.

The price change is massive compared to most purchasable commodities. Silver usually is a good example. You can buy a ton for around 3,300 and sell for 48-49,000. Now imagine you bought 2 tons of water purifiers at 150 credits and sold them at the marked up price always found in infrastructure failure states where you get the silver. You basically flip 300 credits of commodities for 1 ton of silver which is sold entirely for profit.

 

[bookmite]

The Hauling missions balancing hurts . It doesn’t feel like a balance, it feels like a nerf.
Same system 196 Ton deliveries reduced from 1.5m average to 150k even when fully allied. Same for single system hops. The end result is the incentive to play this play loop removed.

Mining and mineral and market prices.

We all know recent rebalancing has flipped high value minerals , made even harder with the PWA borked. After the mining rebalancing on painite and Ltd’s, it’s become very frustrating to find stations that actually sell at advertised prices either in game import prices or 3rd party app prices. The end result isn’t a rebalancing, it’s a nerf, and again the incentive to core mine has been removed due to the reasons stated.

combat .

I'm pve triple elite, been playing for 4 years, combat has always been a favorite of mine, I had a rude awakening yesterday when I took on a special ops mission to kill clean passenger ships. The mission was ranked for dangerous rep and wasn’t listed as a wing mission. The payout was listed at 13m .I took it on to test the mission type and balance. Not necessarily just for the credits as I was seeing massacre missions advertised at 50m but decided to play it safer. I found the first mission target signal and dropped into a fleet of 9 belugas escorted by at least 4 cops. On firing the first shot , most of the fleet of belugas scattered and jumped out , I managed to kill my original target with all the cops turned on me. I killed 2 cops and jumped out at 28% Hull and modules failing. I was using a highly engineered fdl pvp railgun prismatic build, I know rails are harder against small fast ships, but I landed a few good hits. It’s the same ship I’ve used on many successful wetwork jobs and elite ranked assassination missions in the past. I didn’t stand a chance, it felt like I was up against a wing of experienced pvp Cmdrs. I abandoned the whole mission after dropping into the 2nd signal and finding the same format . The aggression levels were insane, I might have faired better had I used my corvette , but still my point is the aggression seemed a tad too high . Oddly my only penalty was for assault and I never received a fine for abandoning the mission.

I will test CZ’s going solo tomorrow and report back if it’s unbearable

 

[DemiserofD]

The Hauling missions balancing hurts . It doesn’t feel like a balance, it feels like a nerf.
Same system 196 Ton deliveries reduced from 1.5m average to 150k even when fully allied. Same for single system hops. The end result is the incentive to play this play loop removed.

Mining and mineral and market prices.

We all know recent rebalancing has flipped high value minerals , made even harder with the PWA borked. After the mining rebalancing on painite and Ltd’s, it’s become very frustrating to find stations that actually sell at advertised prices either in game import prices or 3rd party app prices. The end result isn’t a rebalancing, it’s a nerf, and again the incentive to core mine has been removed due to the reasons stated.

combat .

I'm pve triple elite, been playing for 4 years, combat has always been a favorite of mine, I had a rude awakening yesterday when I took on a special ops mission to kill clean passenger ships. The mission was ranked for dangerous rep and wasn’t listed as a wing mission. The payout was listed at 13m .I took it on to test the mission type and balance. Not necessarily just for the credits as I was seeing massacre missions advertised at 50m but decided to play it safer. I found the first mission target signal and dropped into a fleet of 9 belugas escorted by at least 4 cops. On firing the first shot , most of the fleet of belugas scattered and jumped out , I managed to kill my original target with all the cops turned on me. I killed 2 cops and jumped out at 28% Hull and modules failing. I was using a highly engineered fdl pvp railgun prismatic build, I know rails are harder against small fast ships, but I landed a few good hits. It’s the same ship I’ve used on many successful wetwork jobs and elite ranked assassination missions in the past. I didn’t stand a chance, it felt like I was up against a wing of experienced pvp Cmdrs. I abandoned the whole mission after dropping into the 2nd signal and finding the same format . The aggression levels were insane, I might have faired better had I used my corvette , but still my point is the aggression seemed a tad too high . Oddly my only penalty was for assault and I never received a fine for abandoning the mission.

I will test CZ’s going solo tomorrow and report back if it’s unbearable

PA's aren't that great against most NPCs, especially civilians. Their main benefit is ignoring resistances, but most npcs aren't engineered so that actually makes your weapons LESS powerful. Same goes for rails, as they have balanced damage types.

Take more traditional weapons next time.

 

[Screemonster]

PA's aren't that great against most NPCs, especially civilians. Their main benefit is ignoring resistances, but most npcs aren't engineered so that actually makes your weapons LESS powerful. Same goes for rails, as they have balanced damage types.

Take more traditional weapons next time.

They've got that sweet 100AP which means you don't need to care about hull hardness any more, but yeah pretty much.

 

[Dr. Nagi]

Based on a video I've seen, you can Shotgun a Cyclops in a minute. However:
This implies that you can find and fly to a NHSS 5 within one minute, and it always contains a solo cyclops.
From my last experience, only 1 out of 3 NHSS 5 did contain a solo cyclops.
So if you happen to be super lucky and able to chain 30 NHSS5 with always a single Cyclops in it, I'd say you truly deserve your 240m credits.
I think 10 cyclops are a more plausible number, which would result in 80m for a solo pilot. Still a decent coin right there.

There is a method of finding guaranteed solo Cyclops instances in a NHSS5: When it has the salvage icon on your nav panel (the cargo canister looking one), it will always be a guaranteed solo interceptor of the respective level.

 

[Dr. Nagi]

billions? what do You use for AX, a carrier?

My AX Cutter alone cost over 800 million. And usually AX pilots have multiple different ships in their fleets. Also rebuys are very much present.
Not mentioning the thargoid activity areas usually being outside the bubble, so you somehow need to transport your ships over (as they have low jump range and usually no fuel scoop).

 

[Dr. Nagi]

Except for mining* that was hit by a big nerf, everything else was vastly increased. 4x to be precisely

Sure, i pretty much preferred the old status were not every activity was burying the player in credits, but if someone wanted to make a buck they had a solid option to do that.
Guess they thought people just need more credits at a slower but constant rate instead of short bursts of mining frenzy.
So? Base building in Odyssey? 10bn a Planetary Outpost and 25bn a planetary Starport?

*(delivery missions were also killed) - but i guess that was to be expected.

In case you missed it, cargo delivery missions, usually the main source of income for new pilots just starting out, got heavily nerfed.

 

[Martind Forlon]

Imo the hauling missions, as stand now, are interesting only for BGS or rep building purposes. Payment reduction is too high. I agree that it's risk free (almost), but it requires quite much play time. And fines penalties for Tritium hauling missions are devastating, it looks like someone added one '0' by mistake.

 

[Northpin]

In case you missed it, cargo delivery missions, usually the main source of income for new pilots just starting out, got heavily nerfed.

I know, hopefully they were NOT nerfed beyond what they where before the boost
And i do hope the supply missions were adjusted so certain missions don't have pilots at a loss (iirc buying the cargo was more expensive than what was payed for delivery)

Delivery Missions
The increase in minable commodity prices has had an unexpectedly large effect on delivery missions due to compounding multipliers, allowing large numbers of credits to be earned with minimal risk and effort. To re-focus the earnings on the effort made, the rewards for these have been changed so that the distance travelled and quantity transported has a larger effect on the pay. Payouts remain relatively high and will be monitored for any further necessary adjustments.

FD just need to be well aware they overdid it and hopefully they will backpedal and make sure there is a bonus (generally speaking for missions, not only for supply/delivery missions) - maybe not de 4x bonus they added for the combat payments, but at least a 2x bonus over what it was before the balancing

Or maybe they simply want to force anyone into combat... since there seems to be where the credits are now.

 

[mistohise]

Imo the hauling missions, as stand now, are interesting only for BGS or rep building purposes. Payment reduction is too high. I agree that it's risk free (almost), but it requires quite much play time. And fines penalties for Tritium hauling missions are devastating, it looks like someone added one '0' by mistake.

My guess? The new algorithm only adjusted the payouts, fines were left on the old calculation. This is why we can see missions to transport silver that pay 300k and have fines of 3.8M.

Poorly adjusted, this.

I suspect - though have not yet confirmed - that this also hurts the capability to obtain various materials through delivery missions, since they'd be based on mission value also.

 

[mistohise]

I know, hopefully they were NOT nerfed beyond what they where before the boost

I'd say, they are back at the level from before the mission server changes happened in terms of payout for most destinations. The "distance" part of the algorithm is working only in the sense that you can get paid just shy of 2m credits if you spend 40 minutes in SC on the mission.

 

[michalfoc]

I would agree that deliveries got bombarded a tad too much. Somebody mentioned few posts back that it would be better if they got cut in half, not quatered. Hopefully devs will take our feedback into account. On BH, I spent about 45mins in Haz last night and racked up about 12mil incl one rearm run to my fc orbitting nearby so I would say its a healfy income, not eye-watering but far more fun than before.

 

[C64Fan]

I would agree that deliveries got bombarded a tad too much. Somebody mentioned few posts back that it would be better if they got cut in half, not quatered. Hopefully devs will take our feedback into account. On BH, I spent about 45mins in Haz last night and racked up about 12mil incl one rearm run to my fc orbitting nearby so I would say its a healfy income, not eye-watering but far more fun than before.

Common FD tactics. I’ll never understand why they don’t learn from their mistakes.

 

[CMDR RuIncognito]

I would agree that deliveries got bombarded a tad too much. Somebody mentioned few posts back that it would be better if they got cut in half, not quatered. Hopefully devs will take our feedback into account. On BH, I spent about 45mins in Haz last night and racked up about 12mil incl one rearm run to my fc orbitting nearby so I would say its a healfy income, not eye-watering but far more fun than before.

12 million even with an insurance of 15 million is nothing ... I'm already silent about the insurance of 50 million and the moment when the cruiser of the federation jumps into the conflict and you're so .... WHATOOOOOO !!! ??!?! ??!

 

[jonesskill]

I would agree that deliveries got bombarded a tad too much. Somebody mentioned few posts back that it would be better if they got cut in half, not quatered. Hopefully devs will take our feedback into account. On BH, I spent about 45mins in Haz last night and racked up about 12mil incl one rearm run to my fc orbitting nearby so I would say its a healfy income, not eye-watering but far more fun than before.

I noticed that good bounty ships (Condas, FDL`s and pythons) are now really rare to show up, at least on my 5 hours on High/HAZ res sites i havent see a single one. - Saw alot of ELITE eagles/Cobras tho.
That brings to my mind that this buff is kind of a FAKE buff, they decreased the spawn chance of good bounty ships (200k-350k) ones and then buffed the spawn rate of smaller ones (20-30k ones) - in the end people will make the same credits/h on Res sites

 

[mistohise]

I noticed that good bounty ships (Condas, FDL`s and pythons) are now really rare to show up, at least on my 5 hours on High/HAZ res sites i havent see a single one. - Saw alot of ELITE eagles/Cobras tho.
That brings to my mind that this buff is kind of a FAKE buff, they decreased the spawn chance of good bounty ships (200k-350k) ones and then buffed the spawn rate of smaller ones (20-30k ones) - in the end people will make the same credits/h on Res sites

Nah that's just the RNG of the particular area and has always been like that, you get small ship spawn or bigger spawn typically.