Game Bashing On Steam

[Ian Skippy]

Yeah, but FS will happily allow you to fly a 747 on day 1, without requiring that you jump through hoops (in ED's case, the same few hoops over and over again) before you can unlock it. So as 'pure' sims go, ED doesn't do a great job of accessibility, while as space-games go, it doesn't do a great job of gameplay.
Maaaaybe should have picked one aspect and run with it, rather than trying to be 'jack of all trades, master of none'.

That's a whole different argument. And while I think the engineering grind (there is no such thing as tinkering in FS at all btw) is bad, it takes virtually no effort to 'unlock' the vast majority of ships. So that kinda feels like a bad faith argument.

And let's be honest here: maaaaaybe if they removed all gameloops and simply gave access to all ships as in FS you'd still be complaining. Just maybe though.

 

[TNTDany]

Try the game, if you don't like it, get a refund and quit playing.

Many did so and will continue to do so for any game. Such is the way of gaming life.

 

[[Diplomacy] Carnegie]

That's a whole different argument. And while I think the engineering grind (there is no such thing as tinkering in FS at all btw) is bad, it takes virtually no effort to 'unlock' the vast majority of ships. So that kinda feels like a bad faith argument.

And let's be honest here: maaaaaybe if they removed all gameloops and simply gave access to all ships as in FS you'd still be complaining. Just maybe though.

Well that's kind of a flaw in and of itself, if you ask me - you didn't, but tough
If you're gonna have unlock requirements, they should be meaningful. FDev again falls between two stools with having requirements that are trivial to achieve. The lack of any real progression in ship ownership contributes to the sense of grind.

If they removed all the gameloops, but populated the galaxy with interesting things to find, I'd personally play a lot more. Although I'm sure a lot of other people would play a lot less, so...

The reason, I think, that FS works as a 'gameloop-free' simulator is that is has an SDK which allows 3rd parties to provide gameloops external to the game. Unfortunately FDev decided that they wanted a competitive multiplayer experience which rather prevents that being an option for ED.

Bottom line is, ED works great for some people and not for others. Best thing to do is to play the bits you enjoy until you get bored, then go do something else

 

[[DOOK] Droogie]

Doesn't matter. Game journalist have literally the best computers around (they can't really see if the game is badly optimised at times). They also are basically bribed.
See, as it happens, big companies like Ubisoft and EA are very nice people and like to offer free top of the line PC for game journalists, alongside their free press copy of their latest game, 2week ahead of release. So that the review is published right before release, when people are the most likely to read it.
And if you play nice, you even get some interesting pass for gaming events, E3, Blizzcon, you name it. It's good to be backstage talking to devs instead of waiting outside the building, isn't it ?
It would a SHAME to lose all those advantages and have the rest of the gaming press keep all the exclusive. A real shame.

Been that way for a long time.

Just saying that the game publishers aren't giving the journalists the same game that they're giving us. It's super scummy on the part of the publisher.

 

[Chaparral]

It's not like there is an ocean of haters or piler onners.

Of the people that bought the game on steam, and went to the trouble of reviewing it, the reviewing owners aren't fond of it.

If your criticism is that the complaints are empty, I don't think the reviews and sales evidence support your point of view OP.

The bottom line is that the product has to appeal to the broadest audience possible within the genre to be successful.

EDO clearly didn't hit the mark, whether its because of technical issues, gameplay issues, or design issues - it doesn't really matter.

A person isn't a bad person if they don't share the same point of view as you.

At this point I'm grateful the servers are still up.

 

[Dane Icaza]

I always find these posts so bizarre. There's always this implication that if you like the game overall you're "allowed" to have minor gripes (as long as they're ones that the OP approves of you having,) but nobody is actually allowed to be genuinely disappointed with the game and/or expansion. If you don't like it, it's because you have some personal flaw that you need to get over, not because the game is actually flawed. Smart, good people like the game. Dumb, childish, bad people don't.

I think it comes from a place of letting their own identity/self-worth become intertwined with the media they consume.



Here's an example of what I'm talking about specifically.

Try the game, if you don't like it, get a refund and quit playing.

If you play the game through steam and like the game, go to steam and post your review.

So if you like the game, leave a positive review. If you don't like the game, keep your mouth shut.

 

[Ian Skippy]

I always find these posts so bizarre. There's always this implication that if you like the game overall you're "allowed" to have minor gripes (as long as they're ones that the OP approves of you having,) but nobody is actually allowed to be genuinely disappointed with the game and/or expansion. If you don't like it, it's because you have some personal flaw that you need to get over, not because the game is actually flawed. Smart, good people like the game. Dumb, childish, bad people don't.

I think it comes from a place of letting their own identity/self-worth become intertwined with the media they consume.



Here's an example of what I'm talking about specifically.



So if you like the game, leave a positive review. If you don't like the game, keep your mouth shut.

True, but as a counterpoint I never felt focussing on the negatives improved my life much. If people ask me for places to eat in Brussels I don't give a list of disappointing restaurants as a warning, I just tell them the ones I liked. When people ask for help buying an instrument, I recommend a few and explain why. I only leave positive reviews for restaurants on Google.

Also, when I go on Steam, increasingly I see waves of negative reviews for piles of games. Game X had to postpone a feature to another patch? Downvote! Servers were down 24 hours once instead of the planned 8? Worst game ever! And so on.

Doesn't mean people should "stay quiet" but I do recommend people to focus on the positives (rather than complaining on a forum for years they haven't played in years) and keep a more balanced perspective than "If anything happens that I dont like I retaliate with negative reviews".

Of course, if you buy a game and it runs at 15FPS when you are way above min spec...

 

[Ian Doncaster]

In the case of EDO, it'd be interesting to see how many negative reviews were posted in the last 6-12 months and how many have been posted in the last couple of weeks.
I have a feeling that a LOT of people will currently be expressing their displeasure at FDev cancelling console development by posting negative reviews of EDO.

For Steam you can get this data fairly easily.

First ten days after release: 3871 total reviews, 32% positive
First six months after release: 5680 total reviews, 32% positive
Last six months: 762 total reviews, 48% positive (as it's not been out 12 months, some overlap with the first six months, of course)
17 days since console announcement: 45 total reviews, 42% positive
17 days immediately before console announcement as a control: 38 total reviews, 44% positive

So it doesn't look like the console announcement made any difference to the Steam reviews overall.

 

[Ian Skippy]

Well that's kind of a flaw in and of itself, if you ask me - you didn't, but tough
If you're gonna have unlock requirements, they should be meaningful. FDev again falls between two stools with having requirements that are trivial to achieve. The lack of any real progression in ship ownership contributes to the sense of grind.

If they removed all the gameloops, but populated the galaxy with interesting things to find, I'd personally play a lot more. Although I'm sure a lot of other people would play a lot less, so...

The reason, I think, that FS works as a 'gameloop-free' simulator is that is has an SDK which allows 3rd parties to provide gameloops external to the game. Unfortunately FDev decided that they wanted a competitive multiplayer experience which rather prevents that being an option for ED.

Bottom line is, ED works great for some people and not for others. Best thing to do is to play the bits you enjoy until you get bored, then go do something else

I use FSE, but that (and it's alternatives) rarely provide much more than "go from A to B for money", like vanilla ED in alpha. The sim itself is just more involved, bit I doubt the majority of players want ED to have more challenging flight. So it is a balance, it has a fair amount of relatively shallow but varied loops, a great but understandable flight sim and excellent audiovisual presentation.

And as you said, it really is down to each of us to find the game that aims for what we are looking for.

 

[amigacooke]

Is it being suggested that console players are buying Odyssey purely so they can give it a bad review?

That would seem counter-intuitive and counter-productive.

 

[William J Smith]

Is it being suggested that console players are buying Odyssey purely so they can give it a bad revue?

That would seem counter-intuitive and counter-productive.

Yeah sounds about right for some folks....

To be honest the launch of odyssey was a complete dogs dinner (and I'm one of the suckers who early ordered... sheesh was I had there)
Thats not to say I dont enjoy playing Elite... which I do, but I guess they needed 'something' out the door in order to please the shareholders.
But after update (I've lost count) , it does seems to be the game we were promised before it came out so I guess thats a plus 1 for Fdev

However... EDO does have a very big downside for me.... and thats engineering the weapons/unlocking engineers... way too grindy for my tastes.. at least with ship engineering , having collector limpets in a combat zone will stock your ship up with parts very quickly, because I still haven't found 10 opinion polls.... and only found a settlement defence plan by accident doing something else

Bill

<<currently drunk and mining......

 

[Greasetrap42]

I get the impression you have that ad hominem attitude out of conviction. Besides, I don't look up people without reason.

You implied my thoughts were irrelevant by questioning if I even own a copy of EDO.

a) That actually is ad hominem. Whether I own a copy of EDO does not nullify my statements.
b) I do own EDO which could have been easily verified by yourself instead of distracting from the discussion. (Edit: red herring fallacy & distraction fallacy)
c) Checking a person's post history is not stalking. It is a normal feature included in many forums.
d) Editing your posts to alter what you said after-the-fact is not "being done with the discussion".
e) If you are going to attempt to sound super intellectual by pointing out logical argument flaws in latin (several times in this thread alone), just don't. Not based on what I read from your own posts.

Yes this post this is an unnecessary overall distraction from the topic. Posted in the hopes you might learn something about logical argument.

 

[The Lawful]

You implied my thoughts were irrelevant by questioning if I even own a copy of EDO.

a) That actually is ad hominem. Whether I own a copy of EDO does not nullify my statements.
b) I do own EDO which could have been easily verified by yourself instead of distracting from the discussion. (Edit: red herring fallacy & distraction fallacy)
c) Checking a person's post history is not stalking. It is a normal feature included in many forums.
d) Editing your posts to alter what you said after-the-fact is not "being done with the discussion".
e) If you are going to attempt to sound super intellectual by pointing out logical argument flaws in latin (several times in this thread alone), just don't. Not based on what I read from your own posts.

Yes this post this is an unnecessary overall distraction from the topic. Posted in the hopes you might learn something about logical argument.

Thank you for your kind caring about my general betterment. I won't discuss the above topics any further, though. Have a nice day!

O7,

 

[CMDR Karrde Sun]

Wait, so are we officially concluding that odd has killed elite? I'm playing horizons so becoming oblivious to it all.

The other thing about those steam numbers is if you mouse over the reviews, its 76 reviews in 30 days. So even at the generous end of possibility, they're only selling a few copies of odd per day, probably not enough to pay for for brabes PA. Odd has also caused frontier to give up on consoles (which comes with people who buy every cosmetic in the store and are content creators) and frontiers stock price etc.

Hmmm....

(ps. Okay i did try 11.1 today. From having about 10-15 hours in horizons this week, overwhelming impression was odd is just unfinished software, shouldn't be spending time on it.. seems wrong)

 

[myothershipisacobraiv]

I agree that there's probably bias among people who have a game to be positive about it. But there's also bias among people who don't have a game to be negative. I've seen more and more of that in recent times.

I think if people can halfway run it, and they liked the game before, it's OK. But otherwise, it's real bad. So it's a case of one side having stronger feelings than the other. The positive side is going "yeah, it's OK", while on the negative side it's basically like mortal enemies.

 

[CMDR Harada]

What entitles you to judge EDO if you don't own even one copy? Inner strength?

O7,

Leaving aside steam reviews :

A: How about all the posts reporting how horrible it is FROM HUGE FANS OF THE FRANCHISE . Holy Moly, if you can't get a semi positive review from those people your are well and truly doomed. This site is my first stop for all things ED. 9, almost 10 months in, and it's STILL getting hammered here ? And not for nit-picky things ! Look at recent posts about CTD, instancing, etc etc !

B: Word of mouth from other reviewers I trust have mostly been negative, who were once formerly very positive.

C: Bug reports and poor performance. I'll double these up, because both are the result of poor code. 'Nuff said right there..

D: Lack of new, and removal of, features I like. Ship interiors, new ships, VR, 32 button limit, etc.

E: Other features STILL not working as intended : "Instancing Issues" is a great example.

Look, it's clear you can't see a poor product for what it is, you're being willfully ignorant, or you're trolling the community. If you can't see it for what it is, well I can't help you. Being willfully ignorant will eventually fix itself. Trolling the community.. Welcome to the Elite Forums.

My only other thought is that you'd like to give FDev another chance.. and another.. and another. Thats OK, go for it. But that's the type of behavior that leads to participation trophies for those who really can't cut it.

 

[The Lawful]

Leaving aside steam reviews :

A: How about all the posts reporting how horrible it is FROM HUGE FANS OF THE FRANCHISE . Holy Moly, if you can't get a semi positive review from those people your are well and truly doomed. This site is my first stop for all things ED. 9, almost 10 months in, and it's STILL getting hammered here ? And not for nit-picky things ! Look at recent posts about CTD, instancing, etc etc !

B: Word of mouth from other reviewers I trust have mostly been negative, who were once formerly very positive.

C: Bug reports and poor performance. I'll double these up, because both are the result of poor code. 'Nuff said right there..

D: Lack of new, and removal of, features I like. Ship interiors, new ships, VR, 32 button limit, etc.

E: Other features STILL not working as intended : "Instancing Issues" is a great example.

Look, it's clear you can't see a poor product for what it is, you're being willfully ignorant, or you're trolling the community. If you can't see it for what it is, well I can't help you. Being willfully ignorant will eventually fix itself. Trolling the community.. Welcome to the Elite Forums.

My only other thought is that you'd like to give FDev another chance.. and another.. and another. Thats OK, go for it. But that's the type of behavior that leads to participation trophies for those who really can't cut it.

Thank you too! Willfull, ignorant, trolling the community, blind, can't really cut it. Something else? At least you didn't write 'Latin' in lowercase. Wish you a very nice day too!

EDIT: All this from a dude who doesn't even own the game, btw, but judges from hearsay. Prove me wrong

O7,

 

[Erei]

Thank you too! Willfull, ignorant, trolling the community, blind, can't really cut it. Something else? At least you didn't write 'Latin' in lowercase. Wish you a very nice day too!

O7,

Asinus asinum fricat

 

[Ian Skippy]

I don't get the point of this. If someone doesn't want to try EDO: fine. If someone did try but didn't like it: fine, plenty other games around. If someone did try it and liked it: fine, have fun.

I do enjoy EDO. No need to argue others into liking it too though. No need for others to try to convince me I am not or should not enjoy it.

 

[Erei]

I don't get the point of this. If someone doesn't want to try EDO: fine. If someone did try but didn't like it: fine, plenty other games around. If someone did try it and liked it: fine, have fun.

I do enjoy EDO. No need to argue others into liking it too though. No need for others to try to convince me I am not or should not enjoy it.

True, but the thread was about people leaving bad reviews. Which everyone is allowed to, just like you can leave good reviews. Apparently the OP didn't like that, as some others in the thread. One way or another.