Game loses something by not forcing Open play

[Archaegeo]

No, devs could program NPC's to be just as much of a jerk as other players, but then no one would play the game.

 

[Flying Penguin]

Considering people still think "open" means "PvP", still see fundamental differences between PvE and PvP, and still consider griefing to be a major problem that's worth sacrificing the online mode when people actually can't even see each other in open, I don't think we've covered the subject yet, seeing as most still struggle to understand it.

Is there no hope for this community?

Well given the "Open" advocates seem to be focusing on the PvP aspects (isn't it more exciting getting interdicted by a player? It's not fair that someone can come PvP having got their creds in safe mode... I want more targets. etc).

No one has yet made a positive and compelling case for Open as an improvement on a PvE group *without focusing on the PvP elements*. Until that is done, PvE'ers will form their views based on experience of other games and continue to be open play averse. It may be that in 6 months time Open will settle down to be a generally positive (if violent) environment. It may alternatively attract a crowd of griefers and pew-pew specialists. The state of Open in 6 months time will likely determine the degree of separation in the community for the long term.

 

[Herik]

Sadly this happens, but it isn't only that, it's people being on online, being interdicted and going to solo just to escape a fight too.



Also, really guys, so people who pirate are griefers because well, they blow others up? God you guys never, ever change...

So... with your point of view, all those NPCs that interdict you and attack you, they're griefers too, riiiiiight?

Enough with the "griefing" on a full opened ended sandbox game, just because someone shoots you, doesn't mean hes griefing, he might be doing hes job, as a blood thirsty pirate or protecting hes deep space as a privateer.

I can easily call "griefing" PKing; no problem....

 

[Zenicetus]

Considering people still think "open" means "PvP", still see fundamental differences between PvE and PvP, and still consider griefing to be a major problem that's worth sacrificing the online mode when people actually can't even see each other in open, I don't think we've covered the subject yet, seeing as most still struggle to understand it.

Is there no hope for this community?

There might be some hope for "bringing the two sides together" if more players championing All Online mode understood what was possible with this game, and what isn't possible, including the technical side that limits certain options. Instead, every single thread like this gets sidetracked with complaints about how it lacks EvE-like features of economy influence, territorial control, and a single online PvP mode -- things that not even other popular MMO's like WoW have. And it just throws a smokescreen over the whole conversation.

It's hard to discuss what might be ways to attract more people into All Online, while people keep insisting that it work like a different game design. That's why we're all talking past each other. The fact that we're two weeks away from official release might be a hint that what we're playing *is* the game. Some things will get further development. The basic design, including things like instancing and mode switching, isn't going to change as far as I can see.

You know, there are things I didn't get exactly the way I wanted them in this game either, like hyperlink discovery and a more challenging flight model. It's okay, I'll find a way to have fun in the game anyway. The people who expected this to be EvE with joysticks, are going to have to find that somewhere else.

 

[Fireball]

Here is the real answer, I have been playing just in open since Gamma launched, I am doing missions/ bounty hunting. I am currently 36 ly from where I started and I have not seen another player for the last eight days so it would make no difference if I were to play open or solo. So OP your post is really pointless and there are plenty of threads on the same subject that you could have posted on so get back under your bridge.

I actually have the same experience, seen that the galaxy is obviously so vast, that you can easily find a secluded spot to be on your own.

BUT, this is not a reason to keep Solo Play, but a reason to remove it, because if EVERYONE had to join Open Play, you'd probably still very rarely stumble about a player (or not at all, if you're really off the starter locations), but still at least the odds are, that it happens more often - chance that it is a pirate (or others think "griever") is then even smaller.

 

[ellay]

I'd just like to add that apart from about half an hour, I've always played open play; and since the first Beta, when there were only a few systems to fly to, I've not experienced any griefing whatsoever.

Admittedly there's been scarcely any other player interaction since, and I'm putting that down to the size of the universe - another gameplay issue I guess!

 

[Asp Explorer]

The people who expected this to be EvE with joysticks, are going to have to find that somewhere else.

But, Eve with joysticks is the only game that deserves to be created, ever!. Why isn't Elite Eve with Joysticks? It's the only game ever that anyone ever will ever want! It's in such demand that every Eve player will jump ship from Eve and flock to the next Eve game with Joysticks!

Elite isn't Eve. Beg (or complain) to the Eve devs if they want Eve with joysticks. Begging (or complaining) to the Elite devs isn't going to give them Eve with joysticks. I wonder which would be the more efficient use of resources with the greater chance of success.....

 

[Tony2000]

Idea to reconcile different viewpoints on this

Not read every post in this thread so sorry if this has been previously suggested but here's my idea.

Premises:

1) Some people want to be able to swap between solo and open mode.

2) Some people don't want "unfair" competition from players using assets gained in solo.

So, why not have all assets, both money and items, gathered in solo mode "flagged" as solo-only.
These may not be used in open play. Would mean 2 credit balances and an indicator on each ship/item to show its solo-flagged status. Shouldn't be hard.

Also there's always the option of allowing buying online credits (at a loss) with offline credits.

Maybe?

Have fun out there o/

 

[deMangler]

There was some discussion about that a while back. It was pointed out that the DDA on Ironman mode doesn't mention anything about eliminating mode switching. Only that in in the perma-death Ironman mode, you would only see other Ironman players and nobody else.

Since it didn't make it into the release build, it might come later. Or they may have decided that it didn't make much sense, because that restriction would mean fewer players to run into. Even if it meant locking into All Online mode, does it make sense to call someone "Ironman" if they're exposed to far fewer players?

I think it does, because in Iron-man the players you run into will stand to lose the same as you if they lose a fight and don't eject - you both stand to lose everything. Someone who stands to lose everything vs someone who stands to lose nothing but an insurance payment and some cargo is not really a fair fight. From what I remember from the discussions in the DDF and the old threads, although for the above reason Iron-man needs to be seperate, the main point of Iron-man wasn't about PvP it was about avoiding the meaningless tedium of immortality, for those that want that.

 

[Asp Explorer]

Not read every post in this thread so sorry if this has been previously suggested but here's my idea.

Premises:

1) Some people want to be able to swap between solo and open mode.

2) Some people don't want "unfair" competition from players using assets gained in solo.

So, why not have all assets, both money and items, gathered in solo mode "flagged" as solo-only.
These may not be used in open play. Would mean 2 credit balances and an indicator on each ship/item to show its solo-flagged status. Shouldn't be hard.

Also there's always the option of allowing buying online credits (at a loss) with offline credits.

Maybe?

Have fun out there o/

I'm really sorry - but that is one of the most incomprehensible idea's I've heard for a while. There is no difference between Solo and Open. The only possible difference playing in Open is a nonzero chance of meeting another player. There is also a zero chance of meeting another player in a filled Open instance. Other filled instances have zero chance of interacting with other filled instances.

Seeing as Offline doesn't exist, what difference is there between Credits? Are maxed instance credits cheaper than those gained with one player in an instance? They should be - as they are more easily obtained by a full instance working together, so by that reckoning they should only have 1/32 of the value of a credit earned by a player on his own.

 

[KevinMillican]

I actually have the same experience, seen that the galaxy is obviously so vast, that you can easily find a secluded spot to be on your own.
BUT, this is not a reason to keep Solo Play, but a reason to remove it, because if EVERYONE had to join Open Play, you'd probably still very rarely stumble about a player (or not at all, if you're really off the starter locations), but still at least the odds are, that it happens more often - chance that it is a pirate (or others think "griever") is then even smaller.

David Braben said that he played Solo mode on a train with a very slow internet connection. It would be impossible to do the same in Open Play because as soon as you join an instance with several other players a slow connection would ruin things. As there is no offline mode, this alone is enough to justify Solo Play.

However, there really is no need to justify Solo Play at all; it's part of the game design - get over it.

 

[Darkwolf]

Not read every post in this thread so sorry if this has been previously suggested but here's my idea.

Premises:

1) Some people want to be able to swap between solo and open mode.

2) Some people don't want "unfair" competition from players using assets gained in solo.

So, why not have all assets, both money and items, gathered in solo mode "flagged" as solo-only.
These may not be used in open play. Would mean 2 credit balances and an indicator on each ship/item to show its solo-flagged status. Shouldn't be hard.

No. Because that suggestion fulfills scenario 2's wishes, but not 1's wishes. You essentially don't have swapping if the swapping is one-way only.

Alternatively, people could stop being so blasted competitive and concerned with what other people are doing / having, and instead focus on their own personal experience.

 

[obliterator]

Here is the real answer, I have been playing just in open since Gamma launched, I am doing missions/ bounty hunting. I am currently 36 ly from where I started and I have not seen another player for the last eight days so it would make no difference if I were to play open or solo. So OP your post is really pointless and there are plenty of threads on the same subject that you could have posted on so get back under your bridge.

Has it ever occurred to you that maybe you don't see anyone in open because there is no reason to play open?

I can easily call "griefing" PKing; no problem....

Please do it. To me griefing is the action of actively trying to ruin the game for someone else, while PKing is nothing more than killing them. A PK can be a griefer, but every PKs are not all griefers!

 

[Jockey79]

A PK can be a griefer, but every PKs are not all griefers!

I believe you were going for;

All griefers are PKers, but not all PKers are griefers.

And to that, I'd reply - how'd you know BEFORE you're sucking vacuum. That there, is the issue for most.
Human players can get "Wanted" markers for bounty hunting NPC pirates, or for killing other humans (bounties or for fun) should they pull the trigger just at the wrong moment. From a PvE standpoint there is no way to tell them apart, all you know is there is a human player about who may or may not be hostile and this will disrupt whatever you're doing at the time.
As lots of people only have limited playing time and games are for people to relax in, having to stop what you are doing "just in case" is not relaxing and is wasting that limited play time.

Also, this misconception of being "safe" - NPCs attack quite often, I've had to run from Elite NPCs who interdicted me just before I was due to drop out of SC. All most lost my ship twice. So Solo or Private is not that safe, people can still be ganked by NPCs if they are not fully paying attention or used to the combat controls.

 

[smsKONG]

I actually have the same experience, seen that the galaxy is obviously so vast, that you can easily find a secluded spot to be on your own.

BUT, this is not a reason to keep Solo Play, but a reason to remove it, because if EVERYONE had to join Open Play, you'd probably still very rarely stumble about a player (or not at all, if you're really off the starter locations), but still at least the odds are, that it happens more often - chance that it is a pirate (or others think "griever") is then even smaller.

So lost single player and the fate of ironman mode is up in the air.
Now lets remove solo play.
But aren't you forgetting about parties, lets remove them too!
And as Memnoch rightly points out we can't have an ignore function as it gives an unfair advantage.

If the galaxy and AI is hard enough; then it shouldn't matter whether you play solo or open - this was stated by Sandro as being one of his goals to achieve.
I originally wanted to enforce online only with no care bear options. But I wanted it so that there was nothing obviously distinguishable between player and AI ships. In other words I wanted solid radar contacts no matter what - if you wanted to tell who was a humie you had to do a bit of checking via the scanners.
I didn't get what I wanted, boo hoo poor me and all of that!
To be fair I'm not bothered; after playing for a while (in both open and solo) I don't think it will make much difference either way...
That isn't good enough reason to cut out all possible ways to play except the one you want though!

And by you I mean every single person who wants everyone else to play their way and only their way.

I'm going to try something new and just go with what the developers come up with - if it turns out horrendous then I'll mention it. If it's workable then I'll just go with the flow. Because you can't please everyone and I don't think I'm special enough to have it all my way!
Of course we're all different so maybe some people on here are special enough to get exactly what they want

 

[obliterator]

I believe you were going for;

All griefers are PKers, but not all PKers are griefers.

And to that, I'd reply - how'd you know BEFORE you're sucking vacuum. That there, is the issue for most.
Human players can get "Wanted" markers for bounty hunting NPC pirates, or for killing other humans (bounties or for fun) should they pull the trigger just at the wrong moment. From a PvE standpoint there is no way to tell them apart, all you know is there is a human player about who may or may not be hostile and this will disrupt whatever you're doing at the time.
As lots of people only have limited playing time and games are for people to relax in, having to stop what you are doing "just in case" is not relaxing and is wasting that limited play time.

Also, this misconception of being "safe" - NPCs attack quite often, I've had to run from Elite NPCs who interdicted me just before I was due to drop out of SC. All most lost my ship twice. So Solo or Private is not that safe, people can still be ganked by NPCs if they are not fully paying attention or used to the combat controls.

So to me the real question is: What type of player is this game supposed to attract? The one who just wants to relax without being bothered, or the one who wants challenge and excitement?

But anyway, my point about griefing vs PKing is not that you can make the difference in game - just that people are using the term "griefing" wayy too often. Ex, someone saying: "The only thing lost is your ability to grief." to the OP just because he suggested to remove solo play..

 

[Captain Howdy]

I am always in open and get personal satisfaction from the choices I make. The only true challenge is the challenge presented to oneself and not a challenge presented by outside influences. I would not get personal satisfaction and grow rather bored of any option other than open play.

 

[Kandarus]

"Buh-Buh-but, I want this to be a game for me ... I don't care about anyone else ..."

Grow up people! Or make your own game. *annoyed*

I played "solo" during beta, now "open only" in gamma and forward. Play solo if you want. You have the option of coming over to open but if you think that just hoarding credits in solo and coming over to open in your pimped out ship to destroy real commanders is the way to go you got another think coming. Real players trump npcs any day. So stay in solo if you want but people are where the "dangerous" is at and if you don't get that then your better off alone.

 

[Loren Lovanchi]

I really wish you could only advance in Open play, or that Open money/ships/reputation were separate from Solo money/ships/reputation.

Yes, I know some don't want to have to deal with other players, great, there is a solo mode.

But the fact that solo and open are tied together means you can play in complete safety, get your uber ship, then jump into open.

Really feels like the game is losing some of its potential by having a 100% safe mode.

I'd vote for that proposal. If you wanna play solo, go and play solo vs the npcs... but don't grind in solo mode and then go open to gank other players in your uber-ship (though prolly with not too much real combat skill at that point anyway haha)

 

[Captain Howdy]

Need I say more?
[video=youtube;fg58hVEY5Og]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fg58hVEY5Og&spfreload=10[/video]