Game loses something by not forcing Open play

[CMDR Sheehy]

David talked about his vision for what open would be like. He had this idea that the Elite Pilots Federation would be a sort of brotherhood that would join forces with each other. Of course there would be wars were PvP was up for grabs, but generally, people would respect the brotherhood. (I'm paraphrasing what I understood. What I heard might be different...)

 

[Jedra7609]

I don't see how it makes the blindest bit of difference to anyone that the two realms are joined. If you want to PvP you will find clusters of like minded people in Open, if you don't then you'll either be miles away from the centre in Open or in Solo mode. I can't see anyone gaining any particular advantage in either.

Personally I will play in solo most of the time and then in open some of the time when they get wings sorted out.

 

[ianw]

With the exception that they are effectively barred from populated space. Fancy a trip to Sol? Only if you can survive the hunting grounds of the core systems...

Then why have the solo or the private groups? The abject hysteria over getting attacked by pirates has lead to some very poor choices being made.

As I said earlier, the inevitable result of this policy will be a diluted experience and a broken community.

If there must be a solo and a private mode, at the very least let these players compete amongst themselves and keep our open world free of the taint of their ill gotten goods.

But that's the problem - this game isn't setup as the type of competition that some people want - which is why these threads keep appearing.

There are a multitude of ways that make this unfair and unbalanceable as a competition.

It's the same with the pirate thing - look at the "Traders please drop your cargo" thread.

Everyone wants to play their own way and at the moment that's how it's setup - there are no leagues no referees no equipment specs etc. It's ust do your own thing.

Some people think that will be it's downfall - on the other hand maybe more people prefer it as it is in which case it will succeed just fine.

 

[Milky82]

And the actions of PvP'ers in other games has led to this "abject hysteria" and search for a refuge. If PvP'ers as a whole conducted themselves in a way which meant that it was widely seen as a positive contribution by the wider player base, there wouldn't be nearly so much concern.

Unfortunately, you make your bed and then you lie in it. Genuine PvP'ers only have the gankers and greifers to blame.

 

[Joe Spivey]

I kinda agree with the OP to a certain extent. One of the problems I see is that I could have found a good trade route, or a nice mining area and things can change without it being clear why. Players not in the open group become part of the background simulation and so it becomes impossible to team up with them or challenge them if I want to claim a resource or a route.

Except that you too have the option of playing solo and 'claiming' the resource/route that way so I'm afraid that argument isn't going to float.

 

[murraypaul]

One of the problems I see is that I could have found a good trade route, or a nice mining area and things can change without it being clear why. Players not in the open group become part of the background simulation and so it becomes impossible to team up with them or challenge them if I want to claim a resource or a route.

That is also true of other Open players though. This isn't an MMO. There may be many different instances of each system, so someone could be flying right past a blockade, for example, without you ever seeing them.

 

[Leopard]

But WHY is doing this any different from playing solo?

If it wasn't any different then why campaign for the solo mode and the private mode?

The difference is that solo mode and private modes can completely eliminate any risk. There plenty of safe ways to farm and succeed will exist in the open world for people who are prudent and creative, but there is still some risk with certain activities.

I find it ridiculous that one can choose to take on zero risk and zero participation what-so-ever and then suddenly choose to compete on the same field as those players who have been participating in the game all along.

My main concern is that this system of darting into and out of the game with impunity to farm your kit at will and then harass the open players by manipulating the market and engaging in PvP with these goods is going to degrade the experience significantly.

 

[CMDR Sheehy]

I kinda agree with the OP to a certain extent. One of the problems I see is that I could have found a good trade route, or a nice mining area and things can change without it being clear why. Players not in the open group become part of the background simulation and so it becomes impossible to team up with them or challenge them if I want to claim a resource or a route. Sadly, the mechanics are part of the game design whether we like it or not. Some people think its great others not. Away from certain areas its rare to see players and people not being visible even if they are there takes something away from the dynamic imo.

Like you would *actually see the other players* in an arena this big? My guess is that you would not be able to tell the difference between an open player forcing and a solo player forcing vs natural background mechanics.

 

[Ikari]

It's called Elite not EVE, I can understand how this may be confusing given they both start with the letter E but I assure you they are different games

 

[murraypaul]

Then why have the solo or the private groups? The abject hysteria over getting attacked by pirates has lead to some very poor choices being made.
As I said earlier, the inevitable result of this policy will be a diluted experience and a broken community.

What hysteria, what choices, what policy?
Solo online isn't something new. It hasn't suddenly appeared as a result of forum discussions.

 

[ianw]

If it wasn't any different then why campaign for the solo mode and the private mode?

The difference is that solo mode and private modes can completely eliminate any risk. There plenty of safe ways to farm and succeed will exist in the open world for people who are prudent and creative, but there is still some risk with certain activities.

I find it ridiculous that one can choose to take on zero risk and zero participation what-so-ever and then suddenly choose to compete on the same field as those players who have been participating in the game all along.

My main concern is that this system of darting into and out of the game with impunity to farm your kit at will and then harass the open players by manipulating the market and engaging in PvP with these goods is going to degrade the experience significantly.

So what about the people that group up in open - if we're talking about fairness in risk why should they have an advantage over the solo player in open?

 

[SharkH]

So to summ it up ...we need forced openplay because "solo=risk free mode" vs" open play=risky" with its population density of "1:400,000" player:system where the progression does matter because everyone wants to PVP and the main focus in this game must be to get the best the most powerful ship the fastest way its possible to have a chance over others so there is an unfair advantage in solo mode over open play. Am I right?

/sigh

 

[Zenicetus]

I kinda agree with the OP to a certain extent. One of the problems I see is that I could have found a good trade route, or a nice mining area and things can change without it being clear why. Players not in the open group become part of the background simulation and so it becomes impossible to team up with them or challenge them if I want to claim a resource or a route.

You can never "claim" a resource or route in this game. There is no persistence or static territory as in other games (EvE).

Find a nice mining spot, mine it out, then fly away and pop back into the instance generated. The asteroids you just mined will magically refresh with new minerals. If too many players are trying to mine the same area without solid enough P2P connections, or if it goes over the 32 player limit, the game will just create another instance of that resource area for the next group of players. It's not persistent.

Same thing with trade routes; you can't blockade stations because the game will happily create additional copies of that station if P2P connections aren't strong enough, or it goes over the 32 player limit. It's not persistent.

Between that aspect of the game design, and the dispersion and thinning out of players caused by the size of the Galaxy, it should be clear why it doesn't matter that players can switch modes.

 

[Joe Spivey]

If it wasn't any different then why campaign for the solo mode and the private mode?

Sorry no. No one is campaigning for the solo mode, it is already part of the game.

The difference is that solo mode and private modes can completely eliminate any risk. There plenty of safe ways to farm and succeed will exist in the open world for people who are prudent and creative, but there is still some risk with certain activities.

I find it ridiculous that one can choose to take on zero risk and zero participation what-so-ever and then suddenly choose to compete on the same field as those players who have been participating in the game all along.

My main concern is that this system of darting into and out of the game with impunity to farm your kit at will and then harass the open players by manipulating the market and engaging in PvP with these goods is going to degrade the experience significantly.

And again. How is doing this ANY DIFFERENT from being in solo mode? There is no more measurable risk in open than there is in solo, the very size of the galaxy should make this pretty evident. As for participation... why are you trying to force that on others? Erm, sorry... we ALL share the market whether we are in solo or open. So I could reverse that argument on you and say that open play is manipulating the market. Let me say it one more time. There is no difference between player A playing in solo and player B playing 50 systems away from the next human. Even if, even IF another player shows up, player B can just move ever further away.

 

[Leopard]

Will you explain why you feel entitled to bring the kit/money you gathered in a protected, private mode onto the open server? Why should the open server not be reserved for those who choose to play in the open mode?

 

[Ikari]

Let me put this to you. A lot of people who backed Elite on kickstarter wanted a single player game when they removed offline mode it caused a mega backlash so if they were to remove solo mode ED will surely crash and burn and it will be bye bye open play altogether.
NPCs still attack you in solo so the idea there is no risk is completely invalid. The only argument I've ever seen put forward for removing solo is from angry griefers who suddenly found out this game does not cater to them and they know people have an easy way to avoid their trolling.

Elite is not about getting the best ship with the best weapons if you think that is the whole game you have backed the wrong horse, its about finding a ship you like and playing a role that suits you the way you want to, be it with people in open or in solo on your own if this upsets you then it's more than obvious why you bought the game and what you intentions were.

 

[delaney]

If people choose to play solo, then it is their loss really...

I like the encounters with other commanders, whether they stop for an exchange of information, attack me or I attack them(assuming they are wanted of course) it is one of the great things of the game.. and while I understand the OP's comments regarding the unfairness of taking the lower risk solo mode earnings into open play, it does mean new players have a chance to get their space legs before battling Elite CMDR Pirates...

If it starts being an issue, Frontier can just extrapolate the risks caused by CMDR's in systems and have solo players more likely to be attacked by NPC's in those systems.... no real advantage then...

 

[Robert Maynard]

Will you explain why you feel entitled to bring the kit/money you gathered in a protected, private mode onto the open server? Why should the open server not be reserved for those who choose to play in the open mode?

If anything is to be reserved, it would be a private group for those who do not want to play with any other players who might group switch. Of course, the members of that group would need to trust each other enough not to play in solo....

The open-online mode belongs to no-one (and, of course, everyone....).

 

[Kaspars]

+ 1
Must absolutely agree to Op. The game would become so MUCH richer. To be aware of everybody. Superb. Why so big universe and only NPC's here and there..boring.

 

[Titus Balls]

+1 to the OP over there