Game "Philosophy" question... should people have to "suffer" or "go away?"

[Ralph Vargr]

I have none of the big ships. I don't want them. I have never used any of the great exploits. It's cheating. I've been playing for nearly four thousand hours. So, I have invested the time to play the game my way.

And, I think those who complain about Elite being a giant time sink are correct.

The grind is a hazing ritual, plain and simple. Stop defending it.

 

[GG7]

I tend to agree "that's life", but tell me more of this "big picture" you see.

Indeed. And for the follow up.

Hard to put into words what that term for this game means to me, but let me try this...

Frontier will eventually FLESH OUT the entire galaxy and provide a level of gameplay and immersion that few will be able to complain about.

That is the Big Picture for me... I see where they are heading, and I hope they can get there while I am still around. lol!

 

[Genus]

The grind is a hazing ritual, plain and simple. Stop defending it.

Ouch.

Oh...hang on.


Um...yes.

 

[Genus]

Hard to put into words what that term for this game means to me

Interesting choice of words.

Frontier will eventually FLESH OUT the entire galaxy and provide a level of gameplay and immersion that few will be able to complain about.

Fascinating. Looking at the rate of development over the last four years...I think it's good to have hope.

That is the Big Picture for me... I see where they are heading

So where do you see them heading....exactly?

 

[Adhock]

It sounds like the problem here, is that you want what everybody else has.

And you want it now.

Elite is not that kind of game. It's a long slow steady march.

The other problem is that it doesn't hold your hand. It encouraged trial and error.

The main arguement against these two aspects is "I don't have that kind of time."

Nether do I.

Been playing two years and I'm just now mastering Gunship class ships. I can make the money pretty easily to buy and outfit mid sized level ships to a basic degree in a couple of weeks. If I had a better attention span, I could probably do it in a week. But I don't.

And that's okay. The game will still be there the next time I have free time.

I get the ship envy. People come in here. Futz around for a bit. Then they ether see players with the big ships or get destroyed by players with big ships.

The game no longer becomes fun because they look at those big ships in the stardocks and see this big huge number.

At that point, they have two options. Knuckle down, set goals, take action toward those goals, and achieve their dream.

Or just give up.

It's no different in any other game. The game gives you quests. Each has a goal, and it tells you the steps to achieve that goal.

Elite doesn't do that. It leaves the steps on how your achieve that goal up to you.

"But I don't have that kind of time so I'll just pick whatever is giving out millions of credits now."

It's essentially boiling down to "I don't have time to think about what steps to take to achieve my goal."

"I don't have time to actually do any of those steps."

Ultimately, "I don't have time to play the game at all."

Not "I don't have time to play the game and get what I want six months from now." It's "I don't have time to play the game."

I find the time to take little bites out of what I want. I spend time investigating this or that when I can manage it. I read through the forums. I ask questions. I try things. I let myself get distracted.

Frankly the "I want it now because I don't have the time" mentality is harmful to a game like Elite. It's meant to be savored. Not speedran.

Obviously this means it doesn't cater to everyone. As much as I'd like to play with friends, most of them aren't the kind of people that Elite Dangerous appeals to.

I really would love to play with them.

But until other mechanics are available then odds are, I play alone.

Until then I have my massive project that might take years to finish. And I take small bites out of it one chunk at a time.

If you see the long haul as "suffering" then Elite simply isn't your game. Whether or not you choose to adapt or "go away" is up to you.

I certainly have no qualms about sharing information on how to make life easier in Elite and sitting with you while you practice and get better. But if people don't want to seek that out. I certainly can't teach.

Makes me wonder if I should start up a video series.

 

[GG7]

I have none of the big ships. I don't want them. I have never used any of the great exploits. It's cheating. I've been playing for nearly four thousand hours. So, I have invested the time to play the game my way.

And, I think those who complain about Elite being a giant time sink are correct.

The grind is a hazing ritual, plain and simple. Stop defending it.

UGH!

I think if I honestly felt that way about any game, I would play something else immediately. At least for a while.

I put this game on the shelf every other month or so if it starts feeling stale, and it always feels good to come back after some time away.

The day it still feels stale upon my return is the day I uninstall it. That's always been the way I roll with every game I have ever owned.

(Thousands)

 

[SavingPrincess]

It sounds like the problem here, is that you want what everybody else has.

And you want it now.

I think you're misunderstanding me.

I literally don't care what anyone else has mate... that's kinda central to my original sentiment.

 

[CMDR Karrde Sun]

As it stands right now, most of my friends love video games, and I would love to fly around with them... but I can't sell them on this game. I just can't. They don't have the free time required to "enjoy" this game as its designed, and the question I have, is why do people LIKE that?

You all get sidewinders. And SRVS! How can you not fly around with them?

Get rid of all your stuff and fly around in a sidewinder until you get it. In the case you're using a keyboard and mouse, you might want to replace with a joystick or controller.

Im not sure if you imagined it, but every ship flies around just like a sidewinder..

No really, fly around in nothing but a sidewinder until you get it The main point in the game makes sense all of a sudden. If you want to feel better, a cobra or courier can also show the same thing.

I can't even imagine what you're missing out on. Just exploring the sandbox over, maybe 10 hours these days will give you more than enough money for ships to do every role. Really?

 

[The Chairmaker]

From my point of view, i see get rich quick schemes as funnelling players into potentially a narrow personal narrative with regard to the game and how to play it. They dont empower players they enslave them.
The temptation is to simply let it become about money.
Once you have started down that path, forever will it come to dominate you and your decisions.

There is so much in this game to pick up and learn by just experiencing the game in its glory, warts and all, and you dont need billions to experience that. Personally think that once you get to the Cobra, the game is fully accessible to you.

When i see comments from people saying they are not going to fly their ships anymore unless they are making x millions, i despair. Have people become so brain washed by our western capitalist society that everything is just about $$$, and one cannot have fun without $$$?

 

[GG7]

When i see comments from people saying they are not going to fly their ships anymore unless they are making x millions, i despair. Have people become so brain washed by our western capitalist society that everything is just about $$$, and one cannot have fun without $$$?

If those players are already billionaires in the game, then they are compensating for what they lack financially in real life.

As I have mentioned a few times here today, I currently have just over 5.5 Billion CR free and clear to spend on my ED account right now. That is after I recently purchased (2) T-10s and fully A rated both of them.

I haven't picked a mission based on $$ since I hit my first billion back in 2016. I didn't see the point in narrowing my options based on just the mission rewards. But... There were some mission types that did pay a huge amount of $$ and those were the same short range VIP Passenger Missions that I was enjoying with my recently purchased Orca and later Dolphin.

While I didn't choose to do those missions for their CR rewards, they did add to my bottom line, obviously.

But yeah... I agree with you. Grinding on missions you don't enjoy just to make more monopoly money and then coming up here and complaining about the game being boring has always been both hilarious and disturbing to me.

[wacko]

 

[GunnerBill]

Virtual +1 for OP's DOOM nod

I also feel your pain OP

Spoiler

 

[Glyphic]

See? here is the problem. What you don't come to realise is that everytime you refuel your ship, your reputation changes, everytime you kill a ship, complete a mission, claim a bounty, kill a ship, or generate single transaction in a station you affect my experience, since you affect the BGS. This is something you would've known if you had played the game enough to understand what the game is about and its basic mechanics. And the thing is, the bigger the ship, the more cargo or more weapons it has, more expensive to repar and outfit and with lilttle effort more can *potentially* affect it.

So, ready to discuss your point again? or you don't want to go down the road and just want to find out how come non-casual players might disagree about easy access to big ships? do you really think, and I hope you agree with me, that Elite old players don't help new players? they do. Do you think old Elite players want to see new players suffer? no, they do want them to learn. How you come to get from there to 'cheat codes' is something I'd prefer not to talk about.

Edit: you still around? or flew back to reddit where you will create another post to start all over again?

How is what he is doing any different then you abusing the solo and private play to manipulate the bgs.

 

[SavingPrincess]

From my point of view, i see get rich quick schemes as funnelling players into potentially a narrow personal narrative with regard to the game and how to play it. They dont empower players they enslave them.
The temptation is to simply let it become about money.

I mean, I'm kinda living proof to the contrary. I only really felt the universe opened up to me once I had the money and didn't have to worry about it anymore. It didn't funnel me into anything unless you physically turn the funnel around in your head. I went in the little end, and came out the big one

 

[SavingPrincess]

But yeah... I agree with you. Grinding on missions you don't enjoy just to make more monopoly money and then coming up here and complaining about the game being boring has always been both hilarious and disturbing to me.

[wacko]

Sorry if I am coming across that the game is boring. The game as I play it now... is amazing. I have a great fleet (BASK) and can do whatever I want. I don't have to choose missions based on payout anymore, as I have all the things I want and can do whatever is fun. There's no more content that's locked away from me. I am THANKFUL that Smeaton existed for as long as it did, as if it didn't exist, I probably wouldn't be here right now having as much fun as I am.

Virtual +1 for OP's DOOM nod

I also feel your pain OP

Spoiler

http://www.threeguysonejoystick.com/wp/wp-content/uploads/2011/11/eastereggs_790screen002.jpg

High-five! Fellow old person!

 

[The Chairmaker]

I mean, I'm kinda living proof to the contrary. I only really felt the universe opened up to me once I had the money and didn't have to worry about it anymore. It didn't funnel me into anything unless you physically turn the funnel around in your head. I went in the little end, and came out the big one

In what ways has it opened up the universe to you?

 

[Adhock]

I think you're misunderstanding me.

I literally don't care what anyone else has mate... that's kinda central to my original sentiment.

You may not.

Your sentiment however points to that being the issue.

There is a steep learning curve to Elite Dangerous. There are those who 'get' Elite and enjoy themselves. (By 'get' I mean those who take the time to explore the game and learn how to make it fun for them.)

Then there are those who fall behind. (Those who for whatever reason can't get into it, or have difficulty with certain mechanics.)

In the case of your original sentiment, it's one I've seen time and again following the nerf of a cash cow. You question why you can't have said cash cow.

The reason you're given is "it's not in the spirit of the game."

Why do you need a cash cow to have fun?

Your OP makes the point of saying that people should have access to all the content.

In this case, all the content is locked behind virtual currency.

You want access to all the content and you want it without investing time into it. I believe the words you used were...

A lot of people actively don't think players should experience "all the content" of a game they paid for unless they spend thousands of hours in return.

Or as you put it, "Suffer or go away."

In order for you to have fun, you need access to all the content you paid for. As it's gated behind virtual currency, you need a cash cow to supply that currency and in turn, unlock all the content so you can have fun.

You want it all. You want it all now.

And you're not the only one to think this.

Elite does not support this mindset. Or at least, it wasn't meant to.

There is a saying in private security. "You cannot stop a determined individual." Someone will always seek to get ahead.

The balance of rewards is a tricky things. Solutions are not always obvious. And even the most obvious ones may have an unforeseen wrinkle somewhere.

So there will always be those who play the game for the experience as was intended by Frontier which was to sell the experience of flying a ship in space in a setting of their choosing.

And then there are those who are driven to complete the experience as fast as possible to 'experience it all'. And because there is no real 'end' to Elite. This mindset is not supported. It is only alluded to in the form of 'psedo' endgame content as determined by the players when there is no real endgame at all.

Everyone wants to get to the end to know how it all concludes.

Elite has no conclusion yet so rushing to get there and unlock everything is pointless. Because it doesn't exist.

My final point?

The endgame is whatever you want it to be. If you have no endgame other then unlocking everything? What will you do next after you achieve it?

Most will move on to other things because they have no answer to that question. They expect Frontier to answer it for them.

I however have a different answer. And it's why I'm still here.

 

[SavingPrincess]

In what ways has it opened up the universe to you?

I can do skimmer runs in an Orca...

I can explore in a jumpaconda...

I can do really intense bounty hunting in an FDL...

I can go experiment with neutron starts without worrying about rebuy costs...

I can go far out of the bubble, and if something happens to me, I don't have to worry about it...

I can play around with different ship builds, experiment with making a ship fly just the way I want it...

I can move things around the galaxy at will, even with 2+million transfer costs without worrying about it...

I can do really dumb, silly stuff like try to build a ramrod-orca and bounty hunt with only a single 1G pulse laser...

I can experiment with SLF's and do silly things with them...

I can own multiple ships with multiple purposes... and fly the one I want at the time...

I can build out an entire fleet of gorgeous looking ships just to bask in...

I don't get angry if I lose a ton of exploration data... or a ton of bounties due to some fault of the game (or my own)...

I get to sit in a bunch of different fun cockpits in VR and look around...

It's just flat out a MORE FUN game to me when you take worrying about credits out of the equation. I don't know how else I can explain it.

 

[SavingPrincess]

The endgame is whatever you want it to be. If you have no endgame other then unlocking everything? What will you do next after you achieve it?

Most will move on to other things because they have no answer to that question. They expect Frontier to answer it for them.

I however have a different answer. And it's why I'm still here.

But, you're kinda ignoring the reality that I'm still here too and having a blast. And I'm still here and having a blast BECAUSE of that "unintended cash cow." That "unintended cash cow" allowed me to enjoy the game I paid for... it's weird... I know... but I get to enjoy this game now, and I am. I made it over the wall thanks to someone handing me a ladder, you made it by climbing super hard... that's great, we're both over the wall... don't begrudge my ladder just because you feel like the person who built the wall never intended the ladder to ever be there in the first place.

 

[Kaocraft]

@OP: you look upon a vast and varied world which contains more in it than you can possibly hope to conquer, and you equate that with Suffering. I look upon a vast and varied world with more in it than I could possibly hope to experience, and I see opportunity and adventure.

You are miserable because you wish to be an omniscient, omnipotent god with everything at his fingertips. I am happy precisely because I am NOT that god.

 

[SavingPrincess]

@OP: you look upon a vast and varied world which contains more in it than you can possibly hope to conquer, and you equate that with Suffering. I look upon a vast and varied world with more in it than I could possibly hope to experience, and I see opportunity and adventure.

You are miserable because you wish to be an omniscient, omnipotent god with everything at his fingertips. I am happy precisely because I am NOT that god.

Cool, sept for the part where I'm not miserable XD... that sounded super profound tho... nice work.