Gankers vs ATR?

[TiberiusDuval]

Every city on Earth with law enforcement still has murder. Not sure how you call murder happening being unbelievable. Of course, you don't want the ED universe to be made more "believable". You want it made to conform with your opinion of what it should be.

Current situation in Elite universe is like getting robbed and murdered, in posh gated neighbourhood is as likely as in most ghastly slum. In some places likelihood is even bigger than in your standard slum. Go anywhere in real world and those posh neigbourhoods are higher in law enforcements priority, and especially shooting spree in such kind of area is met with very swift and harsh reaction. While in some places at slums you can do something nearing real battle for a long time without police response.

Thats what I would want, slummier the place more freedom to do whatever you want, while in high sec better be squeky clean.

 

[Phisto Sobanii]

Current situation in Elite universe is like getting robbed and murdered, in posh gated neighbourhood is as likely as in most ghastly slum. In some places likelihood is even bigger than in your standard slum. Go anywhere in real world and those posh neigbourhoods are higher in law enforcements priority, and especially shooting spree in such kind of area is met with very swift and harsh reaction.

No matter what the propaganda tells you there are no posh, gated communities in Elite.

And I mean, hey, thank the gods for that amirite? Jerks live there!

 

[M00ka]

So funny, it is easy to see when someone makes a suggestion, no matter how silly that suggestion is, concerning C&P that might be effective. Suddenly all those that could be effected are up in arms, doing their hardest to belittle, bully or just mock the suggestion.

 

[TiberiusDuval]

No matter what the propaganda tells you there are no posh, gated communities in Elite.

And I mean, hey, thank the gods for that amirite? Jerks live there!

Well currently those sec ratings are meaningless propaganda. Should they be so?

 

[Rubbernuke]

Well currently those sec ratings are meaningless propaganda. Should they be so?

Sec levels really are for PvE in ED. For Open and PvP interactions security is meaningless.

 

[Phisto Sobanii]

So funny, it is easy to see when someone makes a suggestion, no matter how silly that suggestion is, concerning C&P that might be effective. Suddenly all those that could be effected are up in arms, doing their hardest to belittle, bully or just mock the suggestion.

Sorry, I don't give a lot of credit to some explorer out in the black who waxes poetic about issues they clearly don't understand.

If you look back through this thread several of the posters have great ideas that would make the criminal lifestyle not just more meaningful but also fun. Take Rubbernuke's proposals or my experience with player bounty hunting.

We want a better crime and punishment that makes the game more fun for all involved. We know what we're talking about but cause it isn't "punish all the gankers!!11!!" it gets ignored.

 

[TiberiusDuval]

Sec levels really are for PvE in ED. For Open and PvP interactions security is meaningless.

And what's wrong in effort to make them meaningfull in PVP and Open?

 

[Phisto Sobanii]

Well currently those sec ratings are meaningless propaganda. Should they be so?

We play members of an extra-legal organization with vast, unimaginable resources and influence. They sure as hell better be meaningless.

 

[Phisto Sobanii]

And what's wrong in effort to make them meaningfull in PVP and Open?

All stick no carrot isn't meaningful. It's trash.

 

[Rubbernuke]

And what's wrong in effort to make them meaningfull in PVP and Open?

In reality in Open you need to be your own police via wings, squadrons and Powers because only player level ships can resist other player ships.

 

[60mm]

So funny, it is easy to see when someone makes a suggestion, no matter how silly that suggestion is, concerning C&P that might be effective. Suddenly all those that could be effected are up in arms, doing their hardest to belittle, bully or just mock the suggestion.

I wouldn't be effected in the slightest, not a MurderHobo myself. That doesn't mean I don't see the glaring issue presented when someone wants other people's playing style punished, when options to play the way he wants already exists.

 

[TiberiusDuval]

We play members of an extra-legal organization with vast, unimaginable resources and influence. They sure as hell better be meaningless.

And that extra legal organisation pays out also those insurance claims. Seems quite legit that they would be very interested in claiming their costs from malefactors?

 

[TiberiusDuval]

I wouldn't be effected in the slightest, not a MurderHobo myself. That doesn't mean I don't see the glaring issue presented when someone wants other people's playing style punished, when options to play the way he wants already exists.

It ain't punishment, you just incurred very high costs for big and powerfull organisation. Of course you should pay for what you did.

 

[Phisto Sobanii]

And that extra legal organisation pays out also those insurance claims. Seems quite legit that they would be very interested in claiming their costs from malefactors?

The Pilots Federation is actually subsidizing our shenanigans.

 

[TiberiusDuval]

Seems to me, that certain people do not like this kind of reform because it is kind of C&P you cannot work your way around. And something that has real sting. Unless you git so gud that you never visit rebuy screen.

 

[Phisto Sobanii]

Seems to me, that certain people do not like this kind of reform because it is kind of C&P you cannot work your way around. And something that has real sting. Unless you git so gud that you never visit rebuy screen.

If you look back across Elite's history it's the outlaw players that have adapted to every crime and punishment change more successfully than anyone else. Every. Time.

Take friendly fire fines - how many outlaws you see taking to the forums to complain about those?

 

[TiberiusDuval]

You'll need some pretty creative scheme to get away from this.

 

[Phisto Sobanii]

You'll need some pretty creative scheme to get away from this.

Spell it out for me. Unless you declare some ridiculous kind of god-modded death laser from god killing any wrong doer instantly I'm convinced I could go on a CMDR killing spree that would make your head spin.

 

[M00ka]

Sorry, I don't give a lot of credit to some explorer out in the black who waxes poetic about issues they clearly don't understand.

If you look back through this thread several of the posters have great ideas that would make the criminal lifestyle not just more meaningful but also fun. Take Rubbernuke's proposals or my experience with player bounty hunting.

We want a better crime and punishment that makes the game more fun for all involved. We know what we're talking about but cause it isn't "punish all the gankers!!11!!" it gets ignored.

Yeah sure, only a true criminal mastermind can come up with a suitable punishment regime for themselves.

From the tone of some of your cohorts comments, a revised C&P is a good idea, as long as it doesn't impact one iota on their playing style. Well here are some of my suggestions, feel free to mock and belittle me because I am not a murderhobo:

First the stick:

1. Change unpopulated systems from Anarchy to anything else, Null, Unpopulated, Barren just not Anarchy. Leave that for actual systems run by Anarchist factions.
2. Boost the security levels. High Sec should be a haven for clean Commanders, damn scary for anyone with a bounty, instant death for anyone with a notoriety. Likewise Anarchy systems should be knee trembling, terror inducing areas that no clean Commander would consider entering.
3. Make the consequences meaningful. You start killing Commanders, you lose your right to SD, basically your permit is locked out for a specific time. If you are stupid enough to have your ships based at Jameson, boo hoo you, that is what you get from beating up with small kids in the sandpit. Oh what you cry, there goes all meaningful PvP, so set the rules that you incur these penalties if the targeted player:
   1. Is clean and has Report Crimes on.
   2. Is not a member of any PP faction
   3. Is not involved in illegal activities like smuggling
   4. Did not initiate the incidence by interdiction.
4. If you continue on your merry killing ways, and you do it in a system with an Engineer, you permanently lose access to that Engineer and any linked to that one. You can get access back but you have to jump through all the hoops again. Same with any other permit locked system, for example Sol.
5. Finally (re the consequences) when you finally lose your murderhobo, death dealing, meta build killing ship, your rebuy options are severely restricted, you only have either the free Sidewinder or the basic replacement of the ship you lost (like when you first purchased it). All your high rated modules are gone, all your engineered modules have gone.

Now the carrot:

1. Create a new player stream, called Outlaws Anonymous (or whatever, frankly I don't care what you call yourselves). Basically a criminal counterpart to the Pilot's Federation. FD can create a 'home world' for you in a suitable Anarchy system in the bubble, give the new home of badness the same goods as Jameson.
2. Give the players a choice to be either law abiding or not. If they stay clean they are members of the Pilots Federation, if not they become members of the Outlaws Anonymous. Make the decision semi-permanent, you can switch between the two but it takes effort and time. No more being the baddest kiddie in the sand pit then swapping shovels and suddenly becoming the teacher's pet. Have some balls, be one or the other, don't fence sit.
3. Amend the mission boards, all illegal missions are only available to Outlaws, all clean missions are only available to members of the PF.
4. FD can even create a separate rank structure for the new OA, with new decals, specific paint jobs. You will be unique, just like everyone else

 

[Phisto Sobanii]

Yeah sure, only a true criminal mastermind can come up with a suitable punishment regime for themselves.

From the tone of some of your cohorts comments, a revised C&P is a good idea, as long as it doesn't impact one iota on their playing style. Well here are some of my suggestions, feel free to mock and belittle me because I am not a murderhobo:

First the stick:

1. Change unpopulated systems from Anarchy to anything else, Null, Unpopulated, Barren just not Anarchy. Leave that for actual systems run by Anarchist factions.
2. Boost the security levels. High Sec should be a haven for clean Commanders, damn scary for anyone with a bounty, instant death for anyone with a notoriety. Likewise Anarchy systems should be knee trembling, terror inducing areas that no clean Commander would consider entering.
3. Make the consequences meaningful. You start killing Commanders, you lose your right to SD, basically your permit is locked out for a specific time. If you are stupid enough to have your ships based at Jameson, boo hoo you, that is what you get from beating up with small kids in the sandpit. Oh what you cry, there goes all meaningful PvP, so set the rules that you incur these penalties if the targeted player:
   1. Is clean and has Report Crimes on.
   2. Is not a member of any PP faction
   3. Is not involved in illegal activities like smuggling
   4. Did not initiate the incidence by interdiction.
4. If you continue on your merry killing ways, and you do it in a system with an Engineer, you permanently lose access to that Engineer and any linked to that one. You can get access back but you have to jump through all the hoops again. Same with any other permit locked system, for example Sol.
5. Finally (re the consequences) when you finally lose your murderhobo, death dealing, meta build killing ship, your rebuy options are severely restricted, you only have either the free Sidewinder or the basic replacement of the ship you lost (like when you first purchased it). All your high rated modules are gone, all your engineered modules have gone.

Now the carrot:

1. Create a new player stream, called Outlaws Anonymous (or whatever, frankly I don't care what you call yourselves). Basically a criminal counterpart to the Pilot's Federation. FD can create a 'home world' for you in a suitable Anarchy system in the bubble, give the new home of badness the same goods as Jameson.
2. Give the players a choice to be either law abiding or not. If they stay clean they are members of the Pilots Federation, if not they become members of the Outlaws Anonymous. Make the decision semi-permanent, you can switch between the two but it takes effort and time. No more being the baddest kiddie in the sand pit then swapping shovels and suddenly becoming the teacher's pet. Have some balls, be one or the other, don't fence sit.
3. Amend the mission boards, all illegal missions are only available to Outlaws, all clean missions are only available to members of the PF.
4. FD can even create a separate rank structure for the new OA, with new decals, specific paint jobs. You will be unique, just like everyone else

The fundamental ideas here are a great start. Reminds me a lot of SDC's sweeping proposal a while back.