Was in open yesterday for several hours.... might have well been in solo. Such a boring place our system, nobody goes there.
Modes Get off Solo/Private groups and onto Open play!
- Thread starter firedragon
- Start date
But didn't you feel the tension man? Any time a hollow square could pop up on the radar.
A hollow blubberfrogging square man! That's like ... intense. You'd be all like: oh my actual god, the square! It's hollow!
It might turn into a triangle. What then eh? Ah ... you see? A hollow triangle. If you thought a hollow square was tense, a hollow ... yes nurse. Back in bed. I will nurse.
Can I have some cocoa?
A hollow blubberfrogging square man! That's like ... intense. You'd be all like: oh my actual god, the square! It's hollow!
It might turn into a triangle. What then eh? Ah ... you see? A hollow triangle. If you thought a hollow square was tense, a hollow ... yes nurse. Back in bed. I will nurse.
Can I have some cocoa?
in most mmo i have played countless traders, crafters, mission runners, all kinds of gatherers have indeed ventured into dangerous areas to pursue their fortune. there's several profiles of those players. those incurring risk are not a minority at all, just need incentive. it is rich gameplay by itself. in contrast, trading in solo is just hauling numbers around.
i meant a player run economy but even so, calling the bgs an economy is quite an exaggeration.
monotonous as in uniform. there are no safe or dangerous areas in elite. there is little difference between mining here and there, going 5 ly away or 5000. the only exception i can think of are rares ... which were swiftly nerfed because without an economy they make little sense and were just another exploit.
inconsistent because instancing and modes. this enshrines alleged player 'freedom', but actually rules out an entire world of gameplay and player initiative.
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just theorizing, but it's not really that complicated:
traders enjoy profit. just give them profit enough and they will be willing to traverse any danger, and gladly make up for any losses.
pirates enjoy the thrill and the easy money. just make sure there are traders to prey on.
bounty hunters are just self righteous pirates, same call and the exact same psycho profileand they take some risk too: there is a reason their prey has a bounty.
this, and several variations of this, is bread&butter in open world mutiplayer games. it needs careful balance, but it works very well.
none of this can work in elite because a) there is no economy whatsoever and the virtual world is b) inconsistent and c) monotonous (security is hardly relevant). but even if it could it wouldn't stop you from role playing it, like you can role play just about anything that somehow involves a spaceship right now. in any case, rest assured this isn't going to happen. not even if braben wanted to, it's too late (fixing "b" would be a major investment and technical challenge for frontier, "a" would imply a wipe or equivalent impact, "c" possibly too).
A) There is an economy in the game. It is BGS driven, and I wish it was more responsive to player actions, but is part of the simulation none-the-less. I suspect you mean "player driven" economy. Been there, done that, have tendinitis for life as a result. An player-influenced economy is almost as interesting IMO, without becoming a second job like a player-driven economy tends to become.
B) Not in my opinion, unless you need other players to entertain you. If you're unable to find enough people willing to do that, maybe you shouldn't have made Charisma your dump stat.
C) Tens of thousand of people each day disagree.
In order to fully institute a fair player-driven economy in this game after this many years they'd have to reset *everyone* to zero.
It's not realistic to expect, and it's not going to happen. You may continue to expect it, but all you're doing is setting yourself up for disappointment.
Full Disclaimer- Personally I wouldn't care because I don't own that much in the way of assets or credits and enjoy playing the game, so a "do over" wouldn't bother ME in the slightest- but I'm not selfish enough to think I'm the only one playing this game, either. If I want a "do over" I can just clear my CMDR save and be done with it.
It's not realistic to expect, and it's not going to happen. You may continue to expect it, but all you're doing is setting yourself up for disappointment.
Full Disclaimer- Personally I wouldn't care because I don't own that much in the way of assets or credits and enjoy playing the game, so a "do over" wouldn't bother ME in the slightest- but I'm not selfish enough to think I'm the only one playing this game, either. If I want a "do over" I can just clear my CMDR save and be done with it.
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sigh ...
if you need me i will be in a nepalese monastery for the following weeks. send a pigeon. give it some escort, skies are daaaaangerous these days!
Can get all of that from PG as well, without the one sided PvP that can occur. I'm fine thanks. Ill go into open when i want, perhaps for a spot of PvP when i'm flying a combat capable ship, but when just derping around, PG or Solo suits me best.
It is? That is interesting as I've not found numbers at any station or outpost yet. That is the fundamental difference between us... how we look at the game.
WorldsGreatestForumDad
Banned
Of course it does. If you are attacking someone through the BGS, +++ Influence missions are the best next to murder. Go into solo and private. Unopposed against your aggressor. In open youd build for open for survival. Against premium ammo and grade 5 burst.
Double the Cargo, Double the jump range. Minimal risk vs the people you are at war with.
Its not about opting out of PVP. It never was. Its about taking advantage of solo and private because thats the Most Efficient Tactical Advantage.
If you were to die with those missions. You'd gain negative influence with your faction, Rebuy, and time set back.
You said it yourself on reddit in that powerplay thread. Traders are the ones that make the largest impact.
PVP is PVP, no matter how anyone dices it here. And the modes are being used to the advantage against others.
PLAIN AND SIMPLE.
Its created a META. Thats why the "pvp community is small". The simple opt out option for max results. Tell you what, if the option wasnt available. It would grow. Because like every game out there "direct PVP" is used for objective control. In Elite, its removed the need for PVP. Its not that people arent capable or dont want to do it. Its not efficient to do so.
This literally has nothing to do with griefing, or new players getting attacked or any of that. These are people that know the ins and outs of the game.
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And I've said before, PvP has always been an optional facet in Elite for people to do for fun if they want to do it.
Has it had an impact on basic game play?
Of course it has. Bounty Hunter > Pirate > Trader triangle is completely broken.
Traders stand to lose a lot more than anybody in a pirate > trader match up, being kill can set a trader back days or weeks of work from someone who faces no risk attacking them.
So for a trader it makes sense to use Solo / PGs.
But then Pirates who are looking to build a reputation and want that large bounty to proudly display, also move about in Solo/ PG when not actually pirating.
Why risk a wing of Bounty Hunters ruining all your hard work gaining a bounty for them to collect it and set you back weeks of pirating?
So there goes the targets for Bounty Hunters, as the pirates can just run and mode hop so no one can collect their bounty.
Plus the BH never knows what mode someone is in to start with, so they could spend a week hunting someone who is playing in Solo.
And yes it has also had an effect on Power Play (but not as much as module tourism does or that PvP doesn't pay merits - which is something that needs to be looked at).
But not all games are made for direct PvP to dominate or for groups players to be able to control anything however.
Elite has always been about the individual, not about big groups running a muck.
Play "your" way
With your other commanders, friends or "alone"
Blaze "your own" trail
The whole sentiment is repeated over and over - it's about your own personal interactions with the game universe.
And we all get choose who we share that with and how. And those people get to choose if they want to share it with us in return.
Perhaps if Frontier have a good look at roles, re-balance them so non-combat ships are not the only loser (they are working on the C&P, but player BH needs looking at as well)
Then perhaps you'll see more folks trading / mining / exploring in open.
But as long as the least risky game play is the one that causes the most harm, then there is no reason for any non-combat ship to fly open.
+1. Or: What he says. Want to get all players back into open? Make sure PvP is performed between equals only, or in lawful conflicts (war etc). Or keep shooting at newbeans and traders and enjoy the nearly empty galaxy.
Been playing for years but only in open for about 6 months and during this time only “seen” 7 players and talked to 1— I am in Colonia so perhaps that is not the system to start in Open
I really don’t see any benefit of playing in Open
You're confusing derping around with working the BGS. Derping around doesn't mean working the BGS. I was in open for several hours the other night working the BGS and didn't see another person. But i was in a combat ship. Makes sense in open to fly something combat capable.... or fast.
I went doing some PvE piracy later in Open. Saw one other guy who didn't send me any comms or even try to interdict me. I switched to solo later for the same experience.
Not to mention that "player created" factions:
- Make up about 1% of total factions out there
- About 50% of show no evidence of having been created for BGS play, based not controlling a single system
- Make up about 2/3rds of the largest minor faction "empires" out there
I feel that "interference" in BGS manipulation and Powerplay by"other modes" is the "casus belli" flavor of the month for the month. In my opinion, it would destroy Powerplay, and, in the case of the BGS, reduces BGS manipulation to a game of who can grind the most.
There is plenty that can be added to encourage direct PvP in this game, without forcing players who want nothing to do with it out of the game completely.
Well said. "Added" being the key word. I have seen little opposition to Frontier creating ways to encourage PvP through new content during all of these discussions. Sadly the people we're arguing with lack creativity to go beyond: Open only or bonus.
Which is why I wouldn't mind an Open only Powerplay. It will demonstrate the bankruptcy of the 'Open only' idea. But I can't argue in favour of it since it will impact so many players who are spending time and effort on it right now. Their gameplay enjoyment is much more important than making a point, or appeasing a few, a select few, players who have gotten it into their skull that Open only will save PvP in this game.
Luckily, I feel the fellers at Frontier are very aware of that. And luckily many PvP players are as well, and have decided to take another route. Maybe That90skid should join forced at the PvP Hub at the discord. With his 'god-like' abilities as he calls it, he will be a real asset.
Robert Maynard
Volunteer Moderator
Which is why I posted fleshing out the possibilities that "The New Bubble" could bring in your other thread....
Robert Maynard
Volunteer Moderator
I so don't like that idea on so many levels
It would offer those who positively absolutely must have the opportunity to shoot any opposition in the face (matchmaking permitting) a region of the galaxy to contest. The galaxy is big enough, in my opinion, to accommodate a designated region, per platform, for that.
It would avoid any need to fiddle with reward for / effect of player actions in each mode - as the region could only be affected in Open by players who have sourced stuff inside the region.
It would offer PowerPlay, Factions, CGs, etc. too.
What's not to like?
I didn't go into it because I didn't want to derail the thread .... then I remember what thread I was in.
What's not to like.
Persistence or continuity for me personally is a big thing. The Elite universe doesn't have modes, it's the same one galaxy every player gets. I don't want Bubbles which behave different depending which mode you're in.
Galaxy is big enough, sure, but it's also too big. Player density is a challenge, and a new bubble would even spread out the players even more.
It's a huge complex solution to create a new bubble for a small issue trying to satisfy only a couple of players.
Robert Maynard
Volunteer Moderator
It's not inconsistent (in my head, anyway) as it makes use of the Permit system to lock access to players in Open only.
Play in Open and one can freely enter and leave (subject to border controls purging ship of all contents / data / etc.); play in another mode and one cannot enter as it's permit locked.
Yes, when viewed from the outside it's 4th wall breaking - however so is the choice of modes in the first place when one launches the game, in my opinion.