Horizons Give up..

[Memnoch]

It's interesting to see that after nearly a year or so away from the game that the same old arguments are still popping up. On the one side you have those who would like to enforce Open play on others, for various reasons, and there are those that don't want that and choose either of the other two modes because of those reasons.

Not everyone likes the thrill of having three weeks of work blown away in an afternoon, whether their fault or not, and I think its about time that folks understood that not everyone wants to play the way everyone else does and should understand and respect that.

Myself, I don't trust the motivations/reasons behind those that want to force Open play on others and never will. I respect their choice of course. I'm just glad that FD gave me the choice to ignore them entirely if I so choose.

 

[Hexcaliber]

It is easy to avoid pirates when you are flying a small ship such as the sidewinder, unfortunately new players dont know the mechanics.

As soon as you are interdicted throttle back and submit, being pulled out by interdiction dramatically increases the time it takes before you can use ftl again. As soon as you enter normal space, using 4 pips to engines and 2 to shields begin boosting in any direction to open the distance, as soon as your ftl cool down has passed, enter supercruise do not wait for your heat to drop a little heat damage is better than losing your ship. NOTE; supercruise is not the same as jumping, supercruise can be mapped to a sperate control and does not require you to lock or face a jump target. Once you have entered supercruise pick a target system and jump out, by this time a lot of pirates will give up not bothering to target and scan more than two wakes, but to be on the safe side do not assume this is the case, keep moving towards your destination.

A few items that can help:
1. heat sink launchers, using one reduces your heat signature, the in game scanner uses your heat signature to target you. Depending on your range to the enemy using a heat sink often prevents them from locking on making it a little harder for them to orient their ship to begin the chase.

2. If you start taking damage and have started the process of entering supercruise, switch to using four pips in shields, this increases shield hp's significantly and will buy you more time.

3. On smaller ships, if you have an extra utility slot after fitting a heat sink, its worth fitting chaff , a surprising number of player pirates still rely on gimballed weapons. Personally I would recommend fitting at least two heat sinks before considering a chaff launcher.

4. Relax, pvpers rely on the pve player getting into a flap and making mistakes, more often than not, it is this that gets them killed.

While your not going to get away every time, the above will improve your chances as far as is possible with current game mechanics.

 

[Iron Orchid]

It is easy to avoid pirates when you are flying a small ship such as the sidewinder, unfortunately new players dont know the mechanics.

As soon as you are interdicted throttle back and submit, being pulled out by interdiction dramatically increases the time it takes before you can use ftl again. As soon as you enter normal space, using 4 pips to engines and 2 to shields begin boosting in any direction to open the distance, as soon as your ftl cool down has passed, enter supercruise do not wait for your heat to drop a little heat damage is better than losing your ship. NOTE; supercruise is not the same as jumping, supercruise can be mapped to a sperate control and does not require you to lock or face a jump target. Once you have entered supercruise pick a target system and jump out, by this time a lot of pirates will give up not bothering to target and scan more than two wakes, but to be on the safe side do not assume this is the case, keep moving towards your destination.

A few items that can help:
1. heat sink launchers, using one reduces your heat signature, the in game scanner uses your heat signature to target you. Depending on your range to the enemy using a heat sink often prevents them from locking on making it a little harder for them to orient their ship to begin the chase.

2. If you start taking damage and have started the process of entering supercruise, switch to using four pips in shields, this increases shield hp's significantly and will buy you more time.

3. On smaller ships, if you have an extra utility slot after fitting a heat sink, its worth fitting chaff , a surprising number of player pirates still rely on gimballed weapons. Personally I would recommend fitting at least two heat sinks before considering a chaff launcher.

4. Relax, pvpers rely on the pve player getting into a flap and making mistakes, more often than not, it is this that gets them killed.

While your not going to get away every time, the above will improve your chances as far as is possible with current game mechanics.

It's not that easy in the Sidewinder you start with as it has no speed and cheese for shields - I got killed a couple of times (by a NPC cutter !!! why a cutter - I only had biowaste as cargo!) until I could get better thrusters and boost away using pretty much the technique you have described here.

 

[Droid8Apple]

hi David.
no the reason i'm stuck in a side winder (, cos of persons who play in open as ..eerrrrm"pirates'
which is o.k . if that s how 'they' want to play and i do think it gives the game some spice.
Yet/ But, it's alright for the 'PRO- pirate players to say.."boo hoo, learn to play-fly better'.
when most players,who are in trading /exploring, Generally single fly around the game -open- environment-.
The pirate player, on the other hand, tend to play in groups of Two's and threes. and in the massive big ships.
--On just ONE trip through Everate i was hit 3 times , twice by the same group.....WOW thats some great flying/challenge guys..
3 cobras on a single hauler-- Also been taken out by 2 imperials couriers at the same time.and the sad list continued till I just gave up playing this game.
I find it very 'odd' nay, amusing, that now days on the frontier forums,-and other chat areas-It seems those playing as pirates are now complaining that it's not fair to have groups, and solo play.. because thats where 'most 'players are now heading.
--if you pull all the apples off the tree,and keep doing it.....you soon run out of fruit to pick lol...
As for the 'game' .I think crime V punishment is needing a fix. as there is no punishment.And no difference in any system. no matter if its a high 'civilized' or 'anarchy' system . the police level is the same .. crap...

Having played the 'elite - frontiers game of old, you know your taking a 'risk' travelling through anarchy systems -but the rewards are great.
Try picking a fight in leeesti and police jump from everywhere.. they 'swarm' you. It's Unfortunate this is not the same for EDH.it would give those PVP +pirate players the challenge they so desire.
well ,this turned into a rant about a tired, old subject, that is not going to change .Apologies

don't give up. friend me in-game and i will float you cargo until you can get a cobra or somethign better if you wish. I have a lot of money and nothing to spend it on and actually do, by myself, help anyone new when i can. i'll eject containers of valuable stuff and youll scoop then sell it. it's the only way to help in this manner. up to a couple million if you have the patience. i've gotten a few people into t6's in the past so they can have a little more speed/protection. but the cobra is the fastest and therefor one of the best pvp starter ships

CMDR Droid8Apple

 

[Sans Daring]

Therein lies the problem with Elite. It's actually 2016 not 1984.

I think Elite Dangerous would disagree, knowing a great deal of its user base, especially its long term user base are 30+. If they want to draw in players of all persuasions, and not just those (of any era) who enjoy communal gameplay, they will cater equally to different philosophies of gameplay. Personally speaking, these days on Elite, I spend a lot of time in Solo because gameplay for me is a wind-down from the stresses of the day, not a place I want to interact with others - even in a friendly way. That is how gameplay works for me, and for many other adults. And this is the crux of the issue: to presume Elite Dangerous is about Open is sheer arrogance and a total value judgement. It is about, as games should be if they want to command a market-base, about accepting that gameplayers aren't some homogenous group who derive the same satisfaction from one mode of play, and that simply you are dealing with people who are just good at that mode, or bad at that mode and want an "easy" option.

As soon as we expect gameplay to all to be about community becomes a dark time. Gameplay is about immersion, be it in mechanics, narrative, social, or anti-social. People need to stop presuming their way is the primary way, and all else should function around that.

 

[BigDuke6ixx]

I think Elite Dangerous would disagree, knowing a great deal of its user base, especially its long term user base are 30+. If they want to draw in players of all persuasions, and not just those (of any era) who enjoy communal gameplay, they will cater equally to different philosophies of gameplay. Personally speaking, these days on Elite, I spend a lot of time in Solo because gameplay for me is a wind-down from the stresses of the day, not a place I want to interact with others - even in a friendly way. That is how gameplay works for me, and for many other adults. And this is the crux of the issue: to presume Elite Dangerous is about Open is sheer arrogance and a total value judgement. It is about, as games should be if they want to command a market-base, about accepting that gameplayers aren't some homogenous group who derive the same satisfaction from one mode of play, and that simply you are dealing with people who are just good at that mode, or bad at that mode and want an "easy" option.

As soon as we expect gameplay to all to be about community becomes a dark time. Gameplay is about immersion, be it in mechanics, narrative, social, or anti-social. People need to stop presuming their way is the primary way, and all else should function around that.

Well, they shouldn't have mentioned 'Dangerous' in the title then. Anyway, it will be interesting to see what happens when the beefed up AI hits. Hopefully FD will get the NPC up to a standard where they are close to being as challenging as a human opponent.

 

[Faded Glory]

Well, they shouldn't have mentioned 'Dangerous' in the title then. Anyway, it will be interesting to see what happens when the beefed up AI hits. Hopefully FD will get the NPC up to a standard where they are close to being as challenging as a human opponent.

Well, the "Dangerous' in the title refers to the rank required to be admitted to the Elite Pilots Federation...

Regarding NPCs and humans, some human CMDRs are probably not all that challenging, and for some humans, NPCs can provide a challenge. People are different, and at the moment FD seem to be happy to cater to different play styles and abilities. If and when they stop doing that, they will presumably lose part of their player base. I doubt it'll have any impact on the population of Open.

 

[BigDuke6ixx]

Well, the "Dangerous' in the title refers to the rank required to be admitted to the Elite Pilots Federation...

Regarding NPCs and humans, some human CMDRs are probably not all that challenging, and for some humans, NPCs can provide a challenge. People are different, and at the moment FD seem to be happy to cater to different play styles and abilities. If and when they stop doing that, they will presumably lose part of their player base. I doubt it'll have any impact on the population of Open.

No bad thing, in my opinion. Going forward I'd like to see more player interaction, with just Open and maybe one or two other modes, but all of the muliplayer.

 

[Faded Glory]

No bad thing, in my opinion. Going forward I'd like to see more player interaction, with just Open and maybe one or two other modes, but all of the muliplayer.

I'm not sure having less players playing the game would be a good thing or improve your multiplayer experience. I'm pretty sure it wouldn't be a good thing for FD...

 

[BigDuke6ixx]

I'm not sure having less players playing the game would be a good thing or improve your multiplayer experience. I'm pretty sure it wouldn't be a good thing for FD...

Well, because you get ride of a mode that is having a negative impact on another mode, which could develop into a much more interesting proposition for future purchasers.

 

[Sans Daring]

Well, they shouldn't have mentioned 'Dangerous' in the title then. Anyway, it will be interesting to see what happens when the beefed up AI hits. Hopefully FD will get the NPC up to a standard where they are close to being as challenging as a human opponent.

Again, you're making a value-judgement rather than looking at a broader picture. For you, clearly Solo isn't Dangerous, but there are a lot of Elite players who don't spent hundreds, thousands of hours, having families and lives that simply don't allow it. For them, or even people who aren't massively engaged, it is still a tough game, and I think that's true. It is still Dangerous: you are are your own. You could argue with no ability to wing up in Solo, even more so alone. Elite: Dangerous, beyond the title rank, is speaking about a dangerous universe in which to survive by your skills, it's not about saying "you have to be so tough to play this game and be deemed worthy". And even if you want to go back to the argument "certain skill-levels are just required and if you don't reach that skill, not anyone's problem you keep dying" - some people don't have the time to learn that sort of skill-base and play out with people who play for hundreds of hours a month. So Solo/Private becomes vital to keep those people walking from impossible odds of experienced trolls or even experienced legit in-game players. ED is a big game, and needs to be big and well funded. Different modes enable different philosophies of gameplay and also help people enjoy the game at the level they can afford to.

No bad thing, in my opinion. Going forward I'd like to see more player interaction, with just Open and maybe one or two other modes, but all of the muliplayer.

Well this is the point, that's your preference. It isn't mine right now. I deal with people all day, I don't find multi-player that engaging in any game, I come to be immersed in a world by myself. Other cmdrs break that immersion for me as it reminds me there are other "players". Now not saying my way is right, but it is equally valid. All these modes are important, we shouldn't be having to qualify which are or are not, nor should one be using to crutch up any issues in another.

 

[Faded Glory]

Well, because you get ride of a mode that is having a negative impact on another mode, which could develop into a much more interesting proposition for future purchasers.

It's arguable and subjective that Solo mode has a negative impact on Open.

There's no reason that Open shouldn't develop into an interesting proposition anyway, and I'm sure FD are working towards that, but at the end of the day, there are players who don't want to play with others, and that's simply a preference of how they like to play computer games.

If there aren't enough players playing to make it profitable for FD to continue development, then there won't be a game for future purchasers.

 

[BigDuke6ixx]

It's arguable and subjective that Solo mode has a negative impact on Open.

There's no reason that Open shouldn't develop into an interesting proposition anyway, and I'm sure FD are working towards that, but at the end of the day, there are players who don't want to play with others, and that's simply a preference of how they like to play computer games.

If there aren't enough players playing to make it profitable for FD to continue development, then there won't be a game for future purchasers.

Well, whatever. I'd still like to see the Open Wanted forced into a Wanted mode where bounty hunters can hunt them, rather than have an ability to use Solo as a cloaking device.

 

[Faded Glory]

Well, whatever. I'd still like to see the Open Wanted forced into a Wanted mode where bounty hunters can hunt them, rather than have an ability to use Solo as a cloaking device.

That's fair enough, although for reasons that we've already discussed in the thread, I neither think that would be appropriate, nor would it work. We can agree to disagree.

And just to add one thought. Do you really want to play this (or any) game with people who have such poor 'gamer ethics' that they are happy to kill defenseless players, but not face player bounty hunters? I don't think I would want to give them my time...

 

[BigDuke6ixx]

That's fair enough, although for reasons that we've already discussed in the thread, I neither think that would be appropriate, nor would it work. We can agree to disagree.

And just to add one thought. Do you really want to play this (or any) game with people who have such poor 'gamer ethics' that they are happy to kill defenseless players, but not face player bounty hunters? I don't think I would want to give them my time...

They'd have no choice in the matter with a Wanted mode. I hear there's a Shadow Ban Mode, so maybe they should open that up to anyone who wants to go a hunting?

 

[Hexcaliber]

It's not that easy in the Sidewinder you start with as it has no speed and cheese for shields - I got killed a couple of times (by a NPC cutter !!! why a cutter - I only had biowaste as cargo!) until I could get better thrusters and boost away using pretty much the technique you have described here.

If you were killed by an npc after interdiction, any npc, while you flew a sidewinder, assuming you really did know what to do to escape that was on you.

 

[Tatwi]

I find it very 'odd' nay, amusing, that now days on the frontier forums,-and other chat areas-It seems those playing as pirates are now complaining that it's not fair to have groups, and solo play.. because thats where 'most 'players are now heading.

Only reason I bought this game (a week or so ago) was because it has a single player mode. I didn't want to play yet another MMO, let alone a "PvP sandbox MMO". Just wanted an awesome single player game and ED totally delivered!

Boohoo, gankers and griefers. Too bad for you. lol...

 

[Leper Messiah]

Again, you're making a value-judgement rather than looking at a broader picture. For you, clearly Solo isn't Dangerous, but there are a lot of Elite players who don't spent hundreds, thousands of hours, having families and lives that simply don't allow it. For them, or even people who aren't massively engaged, it is still a tough game, and I think that's true. It is still Dangerous: you are are your own. You could argue with no ability to wing up in Solo, even more so alone. Elite: Dangerous, beyond the title rank, is speaking about a dangerous universe in which to survive by your skills, it's not about saying "you have to be so tough to play this game and be deemed worthy". And even if you want to go back to the argument "certain skill-levels are just required and if you don't reach that skill, not anyone's problem you keep dying" - some people don't have the time to learn that sort of skill-base and play out with people who play for hundreds of hours a month. So Solo/Private becomes vital to keep those people walking from impossible odds of experienced trolls or even experienced legit in-game players. ED is a big game, and needs to be big and well funded. Different modes enable different philosophies of gameplay and also help people enjoy the game at the level they can afford to.



Well this is the point, that's your preference. It isn't mine right now. I deal with people all day, I don't find multi-player that engaging in any game, I come to be immersed in a world by myself. Other cmdrs break that immersion for me as it reminds me there are other "players". Now not saying my way is right, but it is equally valid. All these modes are important, we shouldn't be having to qualify which are or are not, nor should one be using to crutch up any issues in another.

Couldn't rep you again so have some virtual rep+1

MMO's and this PVP "thing" is ruining gaming IMO, it's the TOWIE of gaming, low brow stuff IMO.

 

[srfrogg23]

Couldn't rep you again so have some virtual rep+1

MMO's and this PVP "thing" is ruining gaming IMO, it's the TOWIE of gaming, low brow stuff IMO.

That's interesting. I am not a PvPer, but I am going to disagree anyway. I don't think PvP is ruining online gaming. I do think poorly implemented PvP ruins games though.

A lot of people that claim to be "PvPers" are really just Griefers. Actual PvPers look for competitive opponents that can actually provide a challenge; Griefers take advantage of liazze faire PvP mechanics by opportunistically annoying the crap out of other players that they know won't actually pose any sort of threat or challenge. As an added bonus, the Griefers do it all in the name of their short sighted mantra of "It's in the title, so git gud!".

PvP- real PvP, competitive PvP- can be a lot of fun, but Griefing is only fun for the Griefers. It's enough of an annoyance for the people that are being Griefed that it can drive them to play in Solo or Private Groups. Lacking Solo or Private Group options, most people would probably just go play something else as opposed to dealing with the Griefing in Open Play (which is why, imo, any argument for the removal of Solo and Private Groups just falls flat- Elite is not the only only game on the market and quitting altogether is ALWAYS an option for people who don't want to be pestered by Griefers, so removing Solo and Private Groups is NOT the answer without adding a PvE only server).

tl;dr: A well designed PvP system can be invaluable for sustaining a game though, there are tons of people who will log on just to play that aspect of the game, so I can't agree that PvP ruins games- it's just the bad systems that allow for Griefing.

 

[BigDuke6ixx]

That's interesting. I am not a PvPer, but I am going to disagree anyway. I don't think PvP is ruining online gaming. I do think poorly implemented PvP ruins games though.

A lot of people that claim to be "PvPers" are really just Griefers. Actual PvPers look for competitive opponents that can actually provide a challenge;

That's why I put forward the idea of a Wanted online mode, but it was dismissed out of hand by a focal minority within this thread. Something to do with it being 'disrespectful' and 'unfair' to 'force' griefers into the stoplights of tooled up bounty hunters - the poor wittle bunny wabbits!