Gravity in ships, how does it work ?

[Voubi]

we've got FTL supercruise which contradicts almost every law of physics

Hum, nope : https://arxiv.org/ftp/arxiv/papers/1009/1009.5663.pdf

we've got ships that are made from materials that don't freeze at absolute zero

The ISS does too...

we've got thrusters which provide unlimited propulsion

What is propulsion ? They provide limited Acceleration (if they didn't, avery ship would go from 0 to 500m/s instantly) and automatically limit speed relative to the closest reference point...
I could carry on like that for a long time, but you get the idea...

I'd rather have regular FPS-style space-legs than hope for zero-g floatiness (much) later on.

Why would you want a half cooked feature just for the sake of delivery speed ? They already said that they would absolutely stick to zero-G, so in either case, we won't have walking around ships ever... Apart from magboots...

Finally, the thing in ED is that it's not realistic, yes, if you want realism, go play Orbiter or Space Engine, but it is far more than most other space games out there...

And just to troll a little (don't take it seriously), if you want space legs this bad, go play Star Citizen or Hellion...
/troll

 

[Agony_Aunt]

we've got FTL supercruise which contradicts almost every law of physics,

Actually no. How the FSD works (the Alcubierre drive), while highly improbably, hasn't been proven to be impossible. It doesn't contradict any laws of physics, it simply sidesteps them. The question is, whether the required negative energy densities are possible to create in nature and whether we can actually create them. The answer is probably not, but, we humans can be clever at times.

 

[Agony_Aunt]

Do we also eat magnetic food off magnetic plates with magnetic cutlery and wash it down with magnetic beer out of a magnetic can?

You know these questions have already been solved in the 20th century.

For example:

Hey! Look at that! Magnetic tray with magnetic cutlery.

 

[Zebaoth]

That's why I said as realistic as possible we wouldn't have any gameplay at all if the laws of physics were respected in every way !

Respecting the laws of physics in every way?
Sounds like the greatest space game there is.
Can't have that now, can we?

 

[Zebaoth]

Hey! Look at that! Magnetic tray with magnetic cutlery.

It's actually a bit worrying considering how many people don't know how the induction stove works despite owning one.

 

[Stealthie]

Why do they stick to zero-G ? Because of one little, tiny, minimal plot hole when it comes to AG : if you can mess up with a fundamental force of the universe such as gravity so much that you can practically generate instant 1G everywhere, why would you use this kind of tech just for AG ?

Was this ever a glaring plot-hole in things like Star Trek, Star Wars, Battlestar Galactica, Stargate, Firefly, Babylon 5 or Farscape as a result of this?

Sure, in reality the technology that makes AG viable would probably be a universal game-changer but, for the sake of sci-fi, the simplest course of action is just to assume it isn't.

And, besides, if we're going to oppose AG on that basis, you've got to be consistent about applying that criticism.
Couldn't FTL travel also be weaponised to deadly effect?
What about those thrusters and their unlimited capacity?
Not to mention the biggest "elephant in the room"; the fact that telepresence would pretty-much negate the need for anybody to be out in space at all.

 

[Voubi]

Respecting the laws of physics in every way?
Sounds like the greatest space game there is.
Can't have that now, can we?

Theoretically, Space Engine is aiming at this precisely (speculating a little on the use of the Alcubierre Metric Tensor, but apart from that, all good)...

 

[UselessThing]

And, in practical terms, I bet one of the big reasons FDev aren't keen to pursue space-legs is because they KNOW it's going to be a total PITA to get an FPS engine to work properly in zero-g.

Zero G First Person games is almost a genre in itself!

Among other things the latest Call of Duty games single player features extensive Space Suit shooting action.

 

[Voubi]

Couldn't FTL travel also be weaponised to deadly effect?

I has been it the Elite universe, in Frontier Elite 2 if i recall well...

What about those thrusters and their unlimited capacity?

Still not sure of what you're talking about...

Not to mention the biggest "elephant in the room"; the fact that telepresence would pretty-much negate the need for anybody to be out in space at all.

I can watch pics or vids of the Niagara falls, of Everest, of Kilimanjaro, of skydiving all day long, it doesn't match going there/doing it at all... If it did, we would be Wall-E like blobs, tied to chairs with screens to see the world...

 

[MarkAusten]

Personally, and despite the lore saying otherwise, the only way that I can accept some of the things in Elite Dangerous is to regard gravity generation as being normal in 3303. Mag soles and hand holds for when the gravity fails, surely, but not all the time.

Accepting that gravity can be generated on a local basis is no harder than accepting that in 3303 unidirectional force fields can be generated. Shields are force fields. They are unidirectional since your weapons can fire through them but weapons fire from other ships cannot get through the shields in the other direction. According to current physics this is not possible any more than artificial gravity, yet we are quite happy to accept the one and not the other.

So, for me gravity generation is normal and acceptable in 3303.

[Magsoles? Pah!]

 

[Siobhan]

Since helicopters meet atmosphere, skimmers can't fly with rotors either... Unless anti gravity.

 

[Luniticisi]

I mean, "magnetic boots" ???
Great. magnetic boots stick your feet to the floor.
Do we also eat magnetic food off magnetic plates with magnetic cutlery and wash it down with magnetic beer out of a magnetic can?

how did/do all those astronauts who have been in space/zero-g eat a meal?

 

[Stealthie]

Actually no. How the FSD works (the Alcubierre drive), while highly improbably, hasn't been proven to be impossible. It doesn't contradict any laws of physics, it simply sidesteps them. The question is, whether the required negative energy densities are possible to create in nature and whether we can actually create them. The answer is probably not, but, we humans can be clever at times.

Yeah,

It's not so much the ability to supercruise that contradicts physics as pretty-much everything that happens while we're doing it.
How do sensors work at FTL velocities?
How do we know about anything which is behind us at FTL velocities?
What about temporal shift?
Why do small objects, in SC, such as a nav-beacon seem to have the same effect on our ships as a planet?

It's not that I have anything against all this stuff.
It's just that it only serves to highlight the stubborn refusal to also adopt AG for what it is.

 

[777Driver]

Yeah,

It's not so much the ability to supercruise that contradicts physics as pretty-much everything that happens while we're doing it.
How do sensors work at FTL velocities?
How do we know about anything which is behind us at FTL velocities?
What about temporal shift?
Why do small objects, in SC, such as a nav-beacon seem to have the same effect on our ships as a planet?

It's not that I have anything against all this stuff.
It's just that it only serves to highlight the stubborn refusal to also adopt AG for what it is.

Nav beacons have the same effect (when locked) due to the ships computer altering accel/decal rates. Unlock a beacon or USS, the ship wont compensate.

I'd prefer no AG in game, would make movement more fluid. Tbh I'd be happy with either method as long as it is done well.

 

[Stealthie]

Nav beacons have the same effect (when locked) due to the ships computer altering accel/decal rates. Unlock a beacon or USS, the ship wont compensate.

Your ships computer deliberately accelerates your ship toward a nav-beacon or USS as if it was a planet to make it more likely that you will overshoot it?

To what purpose?

 

[UselessThing]

It's just that it only serves to highlight the stubborn refusal to also adopt AG for what it is.

Not having artificial gravity helps give the whole thing some personality though.

It's like all the pilots being called Commanders and having odd names like Cmdr xx420xx.

 

[777Driver]

Your ships computer deliberately accelerates your ship toward a nav-beacon or USS as if it was a planet to make it more likely that you will overshoot it?

To what purpose?

You are supposed to keep it locked at 75%, then it will bring you in smoothly working as an autothrottle

 

[Stealthie]

You are supposed to keep it locked at 75%, then it will bring you in smoothly working as an autothrottle

Yes.

What I asked was why an onboard computer would be programmed to deliberately make it harder to do something.

 

[Agony_Aunt]

Yeah,

It's not so much the ability to supercruise that contradicts physics as pretty-much everything that happens while we're doing it.
How do sensors work at FTL velocities?
How do we know about anything which is behind us at FTL velocities?
What about temporal shift?
Why do small objects, in SC, such as a nav-beacon seem to have the same effect on our ships as a planet?

It's not that I have anything against all this stuff.
It's just that it only serves to highlight the stubborn refusal to also adopt AG for what it is.

I think you are taking this like there is some absoloute thing that exists whereby if you choose one form of handwavium you must adopt another form.

FD are free to pick and choose which lore they want to use for whatever aspects of the game they want. They decided they wanted no antigravity in the game, and therefore that is the lore. It was their decision to make, and they made it.

Let's say you wrote a game set in the future, and i came along and said your game needs magic. I mean, you already probably have lots of things in your game that don't work according to any known scientific principles. So hell, put magic in there. And space dragons! Gotta have space dragons. Look, you've already added all that other stuff that isn't realistic anyway, let's go the whole hog!

And you would be absoloutely right to tell me where to shove my ideas as well, and that you don't want magic and space dragons, because its not the lore you chose for your game.

Basically you are fixated on FD adding what you want and then trying to justify that by saying it makes sense. There is no real sense to any of it, and FD are free to choose the lore they want.

 

[Aashenfox]

Speaking of centrifugal force, I swear I've seen a blackout effect sometimes when pulling high g maneuvers over high g planets, or was it my imagination?