Gravity in ships, how does it work ?

Microgravity effects:
https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/how-does-spending-prolong/
The real reason is a subset of Elite's loyal playerbase is as nuts as the Dr. Who viewer/fanbase... :(
Two answers : Remlock suits (that's their main use, protecting us from space) and 1286 years of medical advances...
We can already manage, and even greatly reduce the effects of Microgravity on the body with the riiiight amount of medicine, so 1286 years of medical fiddling and genome engineering (we know that the human genome was slighly altered following WW3's biological warfare, so it could have had an effect...) could have had many effects on the ability of the human body to withstand zero-g environment...

Bobble Heads wouldn't even work that way in zero G.
Why wouldn't they ? In this case, most of Elite's Bobbleheads are just a "head" attached to a "base" with a spring... The mechanical properties of a spring (mainly it's elasticity coefficient) are the same, no matter what the local gravity is... The only difference i can think of in case of zero-g Bobbleheads would be that in zero-g they would take a bit more time to actually stop Bobbling around...
Edit : Damn you Stealthie, ninja'd...
 
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To be fair, I'm pretty sure they would.

It's acceleration, in any given direction, that makes them bobble. Not gravity.

Yar but without gravity i'm fairly sure they wouldn't bobble that quickly and stop that quickly. Unless we want to go into how the bobble heads are made specifically to bobble quickly yada yada.
 
The real reason is a subset of Elite's loyal playerbase is as nuts as the Dr. Who viewer/fanbase... :(

Indeed.

No disrespect intended toward anybody who might've contributed to the "ED Canon" but we've seen it all before.

20th Century Fox was so desperate for Aliens:CM to be a success that they announced it was "canon" and, thus, Hicks didn't die when the EEV crashed on Fiorina and he, somehow, left his 200 year old shotgun on LV426 even though we saw him take it back to the APC with him and (presumably) ruin it by shoving it into an alien's mouth and blowing the top of it's head off.

And, let's not even get into Luke and Han's children, or Luke's Jedi academy - all of which led to the creation of the "legends" universe because Disney realised it'd all become a convoluted train-wreck which'd make any "official" new storyline completely untenable.

People come up with ideas for an "Expanded Universe" all the time which seem like good ideas for the purposes of an isolated plot but, when it comes down to it, the best way to deal with them is just to pretend they never happened and move on.

Again, telepresence comes to mind here, for some reason. :p
 
There is no artifical/simulated gravity in Elite without acceleration.

I mean, considering the wacky, inconsistent, unrealistic, hare-brained stuff that we HAVE been forced to accept in the ED universe (telepresence, I'm looking at you but you're not on your own) why on Earth would you just stubbornly dig your heels in and refuse to accept a justifiable conceit such as artificial gravity?

Because none of those things implies anything about artificial gravity, and the setting material states artificial gravity doesn't exist.

Just because you happen to consider certain things more fantastic that another, for whatever baseless reason, doesn't excuse that other.

Yes, we all get that there's currently no plausible way to generate artificial gravity but gravity is a pretty-much fundamental requirement for humans to live in space long-term and it's also a pretty-much fundamental requirement of all fiction involving humans living in space.

If I were a betting man, I'd bet that making people that suffer no negative effects from prolonged stays in microgravity is vastly easier than artifically generating significant gravity without constant acceleration or rotating spacecraft.

The former problem is a biomedical problem with mechanisms we can investigate and plausibly manipulate in the immediate future. Fantasy artifical gravity is just that, fantasy. There is not even any place to start beyond purely speculative solutions that require things that can't even exist within our current understanding.

Do we also eat magnetic food off magnetic plates with magnetic cutlery and wash it down with magnetic beer out of a magnetic can?

Not sure why you'd think we'd be eating with cutlery or drinking out of cans in microgravity. Eating in space is fairly straightforward and was one of the first issues solved when humans were originally developing space flight.

Any conventional dining materials carried would obviously only be used in the presence of significant gravity. The rest of the time, we'd mostly be eating out of tubes, or taking some sort of food substitute.

And, in practical terms, I bet one of the big reasons FDev aren't keen to pursue space-legs is because they KNOW it's going to be a total PITA to get an FPS engine to work properly in zero-g.

Why would it be a pain? We've already seen plenty of FPS examples of zero-g environments over the years.

You take whatever physics engine you're using and set the acceleration variable for gravity to 0. Character movement is then provided, in game terms, by similar mechanisms to those of things that fly or our ships. In the case of magnetic boots you just have an acceleration toward certain designated surfaces that decreases with the square or cube of distance.

Retcon artificial gravity onto our ships and get cracking with those space-legs.

I see no gameplay benefit from the introduction of artificial gravity, nor any reason it would make spacelegs easier to achieve. The only thing it would do is introduce further inconsistency into the canon and dilute the flavor of the setting that the designers have already spent much time on.

To suggest it's the result of your ship's computer artificially altering your speed, thus forcing you to make corrections, is contrived.

That's the explanation, and that's what's happening, if you have something targeted.

Gravity wells interfere with SC, but the flight computer also tries to make it easier for you to drop out of SC near objects you've got targeted.

It's less contrived than many other aspects of the game's FTL travel mechanisms.
 
I always think it's just being stubborn to refuse to adopt artificial gravity within the ED universe.

I mean, considering the wacky, inconsistent, unrealistic, hare-brained stuff that we HAVE been forced to accept in the ED universe (telepresence, I'm looking at you but you're not on your own) why on Earth would you just stubbornly dig your heels in and refuse to accept a justifiable conceit such as artificial gravity?

For the same reason modern sci-fi series often dont: zero-G and magboots are cool as heck, and give a way better 'space' feel than run-of-the-mill FPS running&gunning.
 
Just think of the shriek, if Palin invents artificial gravity, just in time for super-accelerated ships, to combat Thargoids.... :)
 
There is no artifical/simulated gravity in Elite without acceleration.



Because none of those things implies anything about artificial gravity, and the setting material states artificial gravity doesn't exist.

Just because you happen to consider certain things more fantastic that another, for whatever baseless reason, doesn't excuse that other.



If I were a betting man, I'd bet that making people that suffer no negative effects from prolonged stays in microgravity is vastly easier than artifically generating significant gravity without constant acceleration or rotating spacecraft.

The former problem is a biomedical problem with mechanisms we can investigate and plausibly manipulate in the immediate future. Fantasy artifical gravity is just that, fantasy. There is not even any place to start beyond purely speculative solutions that require things that can't even exist within our current understanding.



Not sure why you'd think we'd be eating with cutlery or drinking out of cans in microgravity. Eating in space is fairly straightforward and was one of the first issues solved when humans were originally developing space flight.

Any conventional dining materials carried would obviously only be used in the presence of significant gravity. The rest of the time, we'd mostly be eating out of tubes, or taking some sort of food substitute.



Why would it be a pain? We've already seen plenty of FPS examples of zero-g environments over the years.

You take whatever physics engine you're using and set the acceleration variable for gravity to 0. Character movement is then provided, in game terms, by similar mechanisms to those of things that fly or our ships. In the case of magnetic boots you just have an acceleration toward certain designated surfaces that decreases with the square or cube of distance.



I see no gameplay benefit from the introduction of artificial gravity, nor any reason it would make spacelegs easier to achieve. The only thing it would do is introduce further inconsistency into the canon and dilute the flavor of the setting that the designers have already spent much time on.



That's the explanation, and that's what's happening, if you have something targeted.

Gravity wells interfere with SC, but the flight computer also tries to make it easier for you to drop out of SC near objects you've got targeted.

It's less contrived than many other aspects of the game's FTL travel mechanisms.

Morbad:

Some of my dad's friends worked on Gemini. I got to sit in a capsule. I found out all that had to be done to sustain humans in Zero-G.

Elite is *nowhere * that accurate. Face the music, and admit that artificial gravity is probably going to require a "2001" style wheel (engineering nightmare), or the admission that game trumps reality. :)

^ THIS for Hell's sake !

And, read all the accounts of the complaints from cast and crew about filming with wired puppets for cast (back injuries were common). :(
 
Why would it be a pain? We've already seen plenty of FPS examples of zero-g environments over the years.

You take whatever physics engine you're using and set the acceleration variable for gravity to 0. Character movement is then provided, in game terms, by similar mechanisms to those of things that fly or our ships. In the case of magnetic boots you just have an acceleration toward certain designated surfaces that decreases with the square or cube of distance.

I bet there are far fewer than you think - which actually do it in a consistent, genuine, manner at least.

And those which do, such as Lone Echo, will tend to make it a core feature of the game because it is such a fundamental issue.
 
Did anybody look at the backs of our suits? Hooks or some other mechanical latching, maybe even velcro( as IndigoWyrd insisted)...but it's not always out. It will be full of space cat hair in no time.

Artificial gravity is not necessary. Considering space legs will require developing an extra game on top of the one we've got getting zero g movement right will be the least of their worries.
 
Did anybody look at the backs of our suits? Hooks or some other mechanical latching, maybe even velcro( as IndigoWyrd insisted)...but it's not always out. It will be full of space cat hair in no time.

Artificial gravity is not necessary. Considering space legs will require developing an extra game on top of the one we've got getting zero g movement right will be the least of their worries.

You're right. Getting the players back will be the hardest task. :)
 
Some of my dad's friends worked on Gemini. I got to sit in a capsule. I found out all that had to be done to sustain humans in Zero-G.

Sustaining humans in micro-gravity on a Gemini-duration mission (~1 day) was hardly a major hurdle.

Elite is *nowhere * that accurate. Face the music, and admit that artificial gravity is probably going to require a "2001" style wheel (engineering nightmare), or the admission that game trumps reality. :)

Not sure what you're disagreeing with.
 
I bet there are far fewer than you think - which actually do it in a consistent, genuine, manner at least.

And those which do, such as Lone Echo, will tend to make it a core feature of the game because it is such a fundamental issue.

These guys would like to bring back the old vector space combat system from the original Traveller, that *even then* was being ridiculed by the Total Newtonians, for not being 3D.

Plotting a game turn took longer than an SFB "Attck On The Starbase" session.

High Guard was soon introduced.

Every last one of the apologists for no artificial gravity, is ignoring that it's the default "mindspace" for *aboard ship*. Only in EVA does 3D, Zero-G come up. See "2010" for an example.

Sustaining humans in micro-gravity on a Gemini-duration mission (~1 day) was hardly a major hurdle.



Not sure what you're disagreeing with.

It was a hurdle. You probably were not even alive yet. See the physical therapy the ISS crews have to go through, post-flight.
 
It was a hurdle. You probably were not even alive yet. See the physical therapy the ISS crews have to go through, post-flight.

ISS mission durations are orders of magnitudes longer than Gemini missions where. Gemini crew didn't need any physical therapy and didn't suffer any appreciable physical degradation because they were in microgravity for a single day, not weeks or months. Those Gemini astronauts were in better physical shape on splash down than 99% of the people on the planet who never went into space were at the same moment.
 
I'm not sure it means much either way, but still....

The fact we actually have spinning stations and mega-ships in ED would suggest that mankind hasn't set aside it's affinity with gravity in the 34th century.

Given that most of our missions only take a short length of time, and happen in real-time, I suppose it could be argued that we don't actually need artificial gravity for any physiological reasons.
Hell, we probably don't even need a head in our ships, or a galley, or food.
Perhaps we're supposed to assume that most normal inhabitants of the ED universe spend most of their time in places where there's some kind of gravity and just spend short periods in 0g?

But then we have also got bases on planets with less than 0.1g and we've also got platforms such as Hutton, floating around in 0g.
Perhaps the people in those places get rotated out regularly to avoid the problems related to long-term weightlessness?
 
I find it odd that in the 33rd century, despite being able to build huge space structures, frame shift drives ( FTL ), that humanity still can't generate artificial gravity?!!

Really?
 

Deleted member 115407

D
I mean, considering the wacky, inconsistent, unrealistic, hare-brained stuff that we HAVE been forced to accept in the ED universe (telepresence, I'm looking at you but you're not on your own)

Telepresence is awesome, BTW. The other night I found a big star and wanted to show it to some friends, I telepresenced those guys right in and they got to take a first-person look at what I was seeing. Was getting bored on my explo trip, I telepresenced in a buddy who chatted with me and helped me nav for a couple thousand Ly. Had another buddy remind me that if I were getting bored out there, he could always telepresence me in for a little pew back in the bubble.

Multicrew and telepresence is all about enabling gameplay in a non-grindy, non-time-wasting way. It allows you to connect with folks for some fun or a little change of pace, to experience new things, or just team up and fight a ship together for an evening. It was a small dose of exactly the kind of enabling mechanics this game needs.

On a side note, I was really vocal for delayed ship transfers when that whole thing went down. What a mistake that was. Although I've found one or two examples of where delays are a reasonable mechanic, in 98% of the other cases it's just an annoying time delay.
 
Gravity could be constructed by letting a copy of the cockpit chair be rotated in a cyclotron inside the core of the ship, where the pilot is placed, projecting a hologram for others to see in the cockpit area, feeding the 360*180 view to the cyclotron pilot as if he sat there looking out the window.

As everything is going towards telepresence, even in our real world, the phenomena that persons we meet are all just holograms may be a close future reality anyways.

When you think this concept through, you realize we can never be 100% sure we are not inside a cyclotron right now, reading this post on the forum. Reality may be a holographic simulation.
 
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Perhaps we're supposed to assume that most normal inhabitants of the ED universe spend most of their time in places where there's some kind of gravity and just spend short periods in 0g?

That's what I've always assumed, and I think the game heavily implies this.

But then we have also got bases on planets with less than 0.1g and we've also got platforms such as Hutton, floating around in 0g.
Perhaps the people in those places get rotated out regularly to avoid the problems related to long-term weightlessness?

Quite probably, where it's possible to do so.

I'm also willing to accept the idea that there are medical treatments capable of significantly mitigating, or even eliminating, the long term effects of low gravity on human physiology. This also seems to be implied by game material and as I've sated, is the eminently more plausible route to keeping people healthy, in the absence of the ability to constantly accelerate them at some significant fraction of a g, than the creation of true artificial gravity.

Not that I'd have a big problem with the more fantastic route, if it had more support in setting material, but I don't think it's either necessary nor more compelling, gameplay wise, than having highly variable gravity based on locale, or zero-g on our ships most of the time we aren't at a starport or surface base.

With regard to earlier points, I realized that most of our ships are perfectly capable of simulating gravity for short periods of time (limited by fuel) simply by flying in circles.
 
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