For the love of god, just equip some shield boosters.
Griefers make open impossible, and how easy the solution is.
- Thread starter NisseNeutron
- Start date
But but heavy duty ones weight 14 tons and muh jumprange.
E-rated you say? That junk?
Imma use only A-rated. Including life support and sensors.
Always.
I think it is important to recognise that ganking can be considered griefing depending on the context and that not all griefing incidents may include ganking behaviours. Ultimately, habitual gankers do need to show restraint otherwise they may fall foul of legitimate griefing accusations.
For example: Repeatedly ganking the same player (deliberately or inadvertently) could be considered griefing whether you communicate with them or not, but ultimately it would be for the targeted player to report and FD's team to judge the merits of any given complaint.
Often when this topic has been discussed, there are at least some that have tried to delimit what is or is not considered griefing but the contextual nature of it means a clear and unambiguous definition is pretty much impossible.
There are four main role-playing roles within Elite, which are fighting, trading, mining, and exploring. Each role requires a completely different ship optimisation. (I happen to like trading myself)
In open-play, unless your ship is optimised for the fighting role, you will have your gameplay ruined by sociopathic gankers. (In-game NPCs are a minor hazard by comparison)
This breaks the game's nuanced role-playing elements and reduces "open" to a simple shoot-em-up game.
This also undermines the fundamental point of playing any game which is to have fun, (which is NOT at the expense of other player's misery!)
The argument that "people should just get a fighting-optimised ship, or suck-it-up" goes completely against balancing the game for the different role-playing roles.
It's like having an RPG dungeon crawler where everyone in the party has to be tank. It would be incredibly dull.
There are several ways that this could be remedied. (aside from the apparent impossibility of people actually being kind and considerate to one another)
It occurs to me that World Of Warcraft solved this issue many years ago.
They allowed everyone to interact in the same open-world, but PvP was only allowed if the other person had their PvP flag enabled, or they accepted a duel-request.
That stopped anti-social bullies from ruining the gameplay of people who just want to enjoy the scenery and interact with other players in a sociable and cooperative way.
Elite has a ship-to-ship communications system already with which to support a "duel-request" mechanism.
i.e. if you want to duel with someone they they have to accept your request to a duel.
Anyone who accepts your duel-request will be a worthy and fun adversary to prove yoursellf against. It also stops you picking fights with weak ships you just want to bully.
If you don't like the duelling game-mechanic idea then you could have a personal PvE//PvP setting located only in the station-services menus, (so nobody can cheat by changing the setting to PvE mid-way through a space battle they are loosing!).
In PvE mode you can still interact with everyone socially, but if you are in PvE mode then you simply cant hurt or be hurt by other human players.
In open-play, unless your ship is optimised for the fighting role, you will have your gameplay ruined by sociopathic gankers. (In-game NPCs are a minor hazard by comparison)
This breaks the game's nuanced role-playing elements and reduces "open" to a simple shoot-em-up game.
This also undermines the fundamental point of playing any game which is to have fun, (which is NOT at the expense of other player's misery!)
The argument that "people should just get a fighting-optimised ship, or suck-it-up" goes completely against balancing the game for the different role-playing roles.
It's like having an RPG dungeon crawler where everyone in the party has to be tank. It would be incredibly dull.
There are several ways that this could be remedied. (aside from the apparent impossibility of people actually being kind and considerate to one another)
It occurs to me that World Of Warcraft solved this issue many years ago.
They allowed everyone to interact in the same open-world, but PvP was only allowed if the other person had their PvP flag enabled, or they accepted a duel-request.
That stopped anti-social bullies from ruining the gameplay of people who just want to enjoy the scenery and interact with other players in a sociable and cooperative way.
Elite has a ship-to-ship communications system already with which to support a "duel-request" mechanism.
i.e. if you want to duel with someone they they have to accept your request to a duel.
Anyone who accepts your duel-request will be a worthy and fun adversary to prove yoursellf against. It also stops you picking fights with weak ships you just want to bully.
If you don't like the duelling game-mechanic idea then you could have a personal PvE//PvP setting located only in the station-services menus, (so nobody can cheat by changing the setting to PvE mid-way through a space battle they are loosing!).
In PvE mode you can still interact with everyone socially, but if you are in PvE mode then you simply cant hurt or be hurt by other human players.
You simply have to apply some very realistic design choices to your specialized builds, namely add some big shields and shield boosters to them.
If Elite were the real life, I bet none of you PvE proponents would min-max your miners or explorers, because that would get you killed.
You would add the biggest armor and shields you could afford to your vessel, as would I.
So why do you insist on the right to neglect that in open? Go to PG and min-max to your hearts desire, but keep open as it is...
If Elite were the real life, I bet none of you PvE proponents would min-max your miners or explorers, because that would get you killed.
You would add the biggest armor and shields you could afford to your vessel, as would I.
So why do you insist on the right to neglect that in open? Go to PG and min-max to your hearts desire, but keep open as it is...
Though it may effect other's, I can only speak for myself. My latency is so bad (varies from 75 to 150 on a good day) that ship to ship or any other comm I get is too late to adhere to in any way.
Reason in a word: GREED!
Who wants to make two, three, four or more trips, when one can do it in one.
![[VR] Mad Mike](https://forums-cdn.zaonce.net/data/avatars/m/27/27910.jpg?1553527108){kind=avatar}
Everyone except those who just want to build player killer ships...... They get to gimp their ships so badly they can't even jump out of a system ( and some then complain that it isn't fair when players cheat by running away or moan at FD that it isn't fair that their meta kill ship can't jump far.
In principle I agree. Everyone of my ships is built "sensibly" but that said all grades of gear in ED should have its place, and the fact that for some a ship is not considered flyable until it is fully specced out and ready to be engineered is a real shame.
My best time in ED was in my sidey/eagle/adder saving up for that next weapon or tech upgrade. That game no longer exists.
But in a Cutter or T9 it's a c6 slot to sacrifice. That's a difference of less then 10%.
Not double, triple. Less then TEN percent.
Same with explorers. Sure you won't get record breaking jumpranges, but you'll go 56 instead of 60 then, or 70 instead of 75...
Sorry, but if a trading/mining/exploring role-player meets a fighting role-payer in-game they will always lose that fight encounter unless they have also fully-optimised everything in their ships for fighting. In which case they can't then effectively do the trading/mining/exploring they enjoy.
There is no compromise position possible because the ships don't have enough internal-space to multi-purpose for both viable defence and to enjoy their chosen trading/mining/exploring role.
The fighter role-players are forcing everyone else to have ships fully-optimised for fighting too. This is very exclusionary.
Unless you are into fighting, this makes for some incredibly dull gameplay in open.
The game balance is completely broken, and the utterly selfish "suck it up" response by the fighter role-players does nothing to help fix this.
The point isn't to win the fight, it's to survive the fight.
You only have to live long enough to survive ~20 seconds-ish. It not hard to get that strong and still do what you want
I remember winging with someone for bounty hunting just after the original C&P dropped and they were like "hang on, lemme swap my drive out so I can go faster"
bought a tiny FSD to save weight
they clipped a clean ship and found there was nowhere in-system that they could pay the bounty at
I knew there was an IF at the next system over, but because they'd swapped out their FSD, they couldn't reach it.
Couldn't access outfitting at the main port
Couldn't even hand themselves in because that option didn't exist in the original iteration of C&P
They kinda gave up the session at that point because all their options for continuing were a huge pain, and all for the sake of saving a few measly tons on a drive and at best a low-double-digit increase on their boost speed
If the ships had more utility points and a larger number of the small internal storage bays, then I "might" agree that all ships should have adequate defence capabilities to play in open (even if they have no offensive capabilities).
However, the current situation is that you have to choose between whether you fit mining-specfic gear to your utility points, or whether you fit chaff, ECM, and a point-defense, to give the player time to simply escape a griefer encounter, (even if the miner never fires a shot in reply). There simply aren't enough utility points to do both.
This was done by design to make the player choose what role they wanted to play, however this failed to take into account humans being horrible, and so only figher-builds are viable for frustration-free play in open.
However, the current situation is that you have to choose between whether you fit mining-specfic gear to your utility points, or whether you fit chaff, ECM, and a point-defense, to give the player time to simply escape a griefer encounter, (even if the miner never fires a shot in reply). There simply aren't enough utility points to do both.
This was done by design to make the player choose what role they wanted to play, however this failed to take into account humans being horrible, and so only figher-builds are viable for frustration-free play in open.
While I do like the sentiment that the limited utility slots on anything short of a fer-de-lance are a pain for actually using your ships for things (one of the reasons I loved the courier as my first dogfighter is the fact that it has 4 utilities on a small-pad ship) what do you need on the utility slots for mining that you wouldn't fit to any other ship? A pulse wave scanner and that's about it, isn't it?
I'll go into my rant about the effectiveness of stacking shield boosters, the perfect-protection of shields over hull, and the limited number of utility slots on all medium and small ships barring the FDL/Mamba and the effect it's had on the meta some other time no doubt, since it's one that everyone knows about anyway.
I'll go into my rant about the effectiveness of stacking shield boosters, the perfect-protection of shields over hull, and the limited number of utility slots on all medium and small ships barring the FDL/Mamba and the effect it's had on the meta some other time no doubt, since it's one that everyone knows about anyway.
If you fit chaff, ecm and point defense instead of stacking shield boosters it's no wonder your open experiences are ending worse.
Sadly booster stacking is necessary for defense.
Ok, but after you have fitted a Detailed Surface Scanner, Mining Laser, a Refinery, a Cargo Rack, Collector Limpets, Prospector Limpets, Abrasion Blaster, Pulse Wave Analyser, Seismic Charge Launcher, and Sub-surface Displacement Missiles, there's probably no room for any effective defensive features like decent shields or extra shielding for internal modules. Without those defensive features you can't survive long enough to peacefully go about doing your mining.
Not to mention that all requires a lot of credits, so newer players can't start by doing mining as their chosen role, they first have to start by grinding in a fighting role they might not enjoy just to get enough credits to harden their ships against griefers.
Okay, the DSS, refinery, rack, and limpet controllers are optional internals. You only need one optional internal for a shield generator. The only time a generator is going to make that much impact on your cargo capacity is if you're trying to mine in an eagle or something.
The mining tools you listed all go on hardpoints and are thus irrelevant if you're trying to escape rather than fight, and have no impact whatsoever on your durability.