Griefers make open impossible, and how easy the solution is.

s One side:
We want a mode to play with each other in our lacy panties well away from you filthy, ganking, PvP, griefers, since we are not interested in your stupid PvP, or being someone elses' victim, and the Moibius(es) are just not good enough for us as they are fragmented and virtually empty due to lack of PG management tools and PG size limits.
Other side:
You should just sack up, git gud, and play with us, or play by yourself in solo or some fragmented broken empty PG, and you are a pathetic, loser, care bear for even wanting to play a way different from the one we feel you should. You don't understand what the game even is bruh. It's Elite DANGEROUS man, not My Elite Little Pony bruh. /s
I say there is room for Open, Open PvE, Solo, and PG. I have not found the arguments against it seem to boil down to we don't want it and you are a pathetic person for wanting it. If you can't quantify harm to your game outside of "we will have fewer victims, or fewer recruits for PvP", "it will change the flavor of the game", "but the BGS", or "resort to derision and name calling", you are not likely to convince anyone. If you are not harmed or can't even honestly explain how you are harmed, by an Open PvE mode, why is it an issue?
"It's already been stated." Is the answer I expect. The things already stated all being, or being based on, the unconvincing arguments I already dismissed above.

One side is asking for a new mode that greatly benefits them, and does not effect the other side all that much differently than the other modes already present in the game. The other is against it out of something they can't quite explain in a way that does not come off as disingenuous, as a poor excuse.

That said. I cannot imagine the poor luck of getting ganked every time you leave a station. It strains possibility even if the OP made Deciat their home.
 
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I say there is room for Open, Open PvE, Solo, and PG. I have not found the arguments against it seem to boil down to we don't want it and you are a pathetic person for wanting it. If you can't quantify harm to your game outside of "we will have fewer victims, or fewer recruits for PvP", "it will change the flavor of the game", "but the BGS", or "resort to derision and name calling", you are not likely to convince anyone. If you are not harmed or can't even honestly explain how you are harmed, by an Open PvE mode, why is it an issue?
"It's already been stated." Is the answer I expect. The things already stated all being, or being based on, the unconvincing arguments I already dismissed above.

One side is asking for a new mode that greatly benefits them, and does not effect the other side all that much differently than the other modes already present in the game. The other is against it out of something they can't quite explain in a way that does not come off as disingenuous, as a poor excuse.

It's all mood anyways as FDev doesn't want to implement an open PvE mode.
 
W00t! Months since my last visit and still nothing has changed. Oh god I've missed you all. When the world is burning and nothing will ever be the same again...this forum will be.

OP, I write to you this letter from the comfort of Open, situated around Wyrd and starting space on a new alt account, where I haven't been attacked once in two weeks. I guess Wyrd must be some quiet, unused system based on your statistical analysis of gank rates in open.

For a start, we already introduced new C&P rules a while back. You guys complained, and you already got them. Rules that were harsh. That's where the whole hot module, super annoying fine thing came from.

Do you remember what happened? I do.

For week after week, criminal after criminal cried as they were harshly reprimanded...for docking dangerously. And for "accidentally" shooting the wrong ship in combat.

Do you know who didn't cry? The gr1eff0rz.

...

A few things:

Firstly, harsh punishment must apply to ALL crime - not just griefing. Whether you like it or not, PvP in Open was intended since the start, as much a part of the game as anything else. If you don't like that, tough cookies. You don't have to like it any more than PvP players have to like PG and Solo. So, no - FD are not about to introduce a magical, space transcending ban hammer that stops PvP players from playing the game. As much as you want it, and as much as you try to hide it by suggesting they cannot dock, sneeze or do their laundry without being attacked.

Secondly, if you struggle to survive attacks so much...actually become one with the game. Stop running around solo in your unarmoured, D-rated thruster wielding trader. The simple truth is that the game is in favour of defense: with basically no modding and basic escape tactics, you can consistently escape from even the toughest assailants. Instead of complaining, actually play the game as if you were trying to protect your life. That's when games become fun. And if you don't like having to make a few T concessions on your trader, explorer, whatever so it can be sneezed on without falling apart - might I suggest Open was never going to be right for you before you even tried it.

Finally, this one's actually in support of something you said. Yes, we DO need PvP bounty hunters. WE NEED THEM SO BADLY. We also need to facilitate other forms of PvP. All of this is the single, most fundamental aspect of the entire discussion, because doing so gives PvPers meaning; it gives them something to do other than smash new ships. It gives them an engaging reason to play PvP within Elite. It allows PvP players to moderate murderers themselves, without resorting to artificial game breaking bounties, and without resorting to braindead NPC fighters.

So why don't we have PvP bounty hunters?

Because the same crowd that complains about PvPers shooting new ships complain about us getting such updates. "Why should they get content we can't engage in", they said. "just kick them out the game, I don't like them!" said another. "They took our jerbs!" came a voice from the back.

So in summary - they were complaining about other players getting content that would improve their game quality, despite the fact it wouldn't change their own game.

Ruining the game of others at no benefit to themselves.

Now where have I heard that before...
 
W00t! Months since my last visit and still nothing has changed. Oh god I've missed you all. When the world is burning and nothing will ever be the same again...this forum will be.

OP, I write to you this letter from the comfort of Open, situated around Wyrd and starting space on a new alt account, where I haven't been attacked once in two weeks. I guess Wyrd must be some quiet, unused system based on your statistical analysis of gank rates in open.

For a start, we already introduced new C&P rules a while back. You guys complained, and you already got them. Rules that were harsh. That's where the whole hot module, super annoying fine thing came from.

Do you remember what happened? I do.

For week after week, criminal after criminal cried as they were harshly reprimanded...for docking dangerously. And for "accidentally" shooting the wrong ship in combat.

Do you know who didn't cry? The gr1eff0rz.

...

A few things:

Firstly, harsh punishment must apply to ALL crime - not just griefing. Whether you like it or not, PvP in Open was intended since the start, as much a part of the game as anything else. If you don't like that, tough cookies. You don't have to like it any more than PvP players have to like PG and Solo. So, no - FD are not about to introduce a magical, space transcending ban hammer that stops PvP players from playing the game. As much as you want it, and as much as you try to hide it by suggesting they cannot dock, sneeze or do their laundry without being attacked.

Secondly, if you struggle to survive attacks so much...actually become one with the game. Stop running around solo in your unarmoured, D-rated thruster wielding trader. The simple truth is that the game is in favour of defense: with basically no modding and basic escape tactics, you can consistently escape from even the toughest assailants. Instead of complaining, actually play the game as if you were trying to protect your life. That's when games become fun. And if you don't like having to make a few T concessions on your trader, explorer, whatever so it can be sneezed on without falling apart - might I suggest Open was never going to be right for you before you even tried it.

Finally, this one's actually in support of something you said. Yes, we DO need PvP bounty hunters. WE NEED THEM SO BADLY. We also need to facilitate other forms of PvP. All of this is the single, most fundamental aspect of the entire discussion, because doing so gives PvPers meaning; it gives them something to do other than smash new ships. It gives them an engaging reason to play PvP within Elite. It allows PvP players to moderate murderers themselves, without resorting to artificial game breaking bounties, and without resorting to braindead NPC fighters.

So why don't we have PvP bounty hunters?

Because the same crowd that complains about PvPers shooting new ships complain about us getting such updates. "Why should they get content we can't engage in", they said. "just kick them out the game, I don't like them!" said another. "They took our jerbs!" came a voice from the back.

So in summary - they were complaining about other players getting content that would improve their game quality, despite the fact it wouldn't change their own game.

Ruining the game of others at no benefit to themselves.

Now where have I heard that before...
Jerbs?
THEY TOOK ERJOBS!
 
I say there is room for Open, Open PvE, Solo, and PG. I have not found the arguments against it seem to boil down to we don't want it and you are a pathetic person for wanting it. If you can't quantify harm to your game outside of "we will have fewer victims, or fewer recruits for PvP", "it will change the flavor of the game", "but the BGS", or "resort to derision and name calling", you are not likely to convince anyone. If you are not harmed or can't even honestly explain how you are harmed, by an Open PvE mode, why is it an issue?
"It's already been stated." Is the answer I expect. The things already stated all being, or being based on, the unconvincing arguments I already dismissed above.

One side is asking for a new mode that greatly benefits them, and does not effect the other side all that much differently than the other modes already present in the game. The other is against it out of something they can't quite explain in a way that does not come off as disingenuous, as a poor excuse.

That said. I cannot imagine the poor luck of getting ganked every time you leave a station. It strains possibility even if the OP made Deciat their home.

"It doesn't harm you for me to be magically invincible while you accept greater risk for the same reward in the same mode" doesn't exactly sell me on the PvE toggle.

To state that one won't engage in open unless the game guarantees their safety in the most ham-fisted way possible (absolute immunity from PvP damage) simply means that one was never interested in open to begin with, but a safespace. And, well... open isn't meant to be one.

That the game leaves you in charge of your own decisions-as well as the consequences thereof- might be a flaw to some, but it's a draw to so many more.
 
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Nope... I'm afraid it is still true.. Open is a cesspit of murder hobos...
I have been playing 4 years and was driven from open as I am not here for pvp. I have played in solo or pg so I can play how I enjoy to play in Ed.. Today I thought I would try open to see how it goes..
I purchased an ieagle in open and set out to a rate and engineer the ship.
On this journey I was subjected to 2 interdict attempts, which I fought off in mini game as Eagle is good manoeuvrability.
At Deciat after dropping from frameshift I was attacked by 3 ships, made it in after aborting first attempt, with 12% Hull.
On leaving I was again attacked and destroyed on exiting the landing pad.

Second attempt to leave, again was attacked and managed to high wake with 22% Hull.

So, yes, griefers again have driven me from open..

Go on, say it.... Git gud...

No, I do not want to play this way.
I do not want to be someone else's content

Back to solo/pg for me.

No communication from attackers and I was in an unarmed little ship.
 
Nope... I'm afraid it is still true.. Open is a cesspit of murder hobos...
I have been playing 4 years and was driven from open as I am not here for pvp. I have played in solo or pg so I can play how I enjoy to play in Ed.. Today I thought I would try open to see how it goes..
I purchased an ieagle in open and set out to a rate and engineer the ship.
On this journey I was subjected to 2 interdict attempts, which I fought off in mini game as Eagle is good manoeuvrability.
At Deciat after dropping from frameshift I was attacked by 3 ships, made it in after aborting first attempt, with 12% Hull.
On leaving I was again attacked and destroyed on exiting the landing pad.

Second attempt to leave, again was attacked and managed to high wake with 22% Hull.

So, yes, griefers again have driven me from open..

Go on, say it.... Git gud...

No, I do not want to play this way.
I do not want to be someone else's content

Back to solo/pg for me.

Sounds like you're playing in the mode that's right for you. Carry on.
 
Games that enforce healthy mechanics have a healthier culture. I couldn't just attack someone, in FF XIV. But I could help them...and so I did.
 
I agree but people in this thread are saying this is not so.
I am happy to keep playing as I have been, but thought I would try this experiment.
 
I agree but people in this thread are saying this is not so.
I am happy to keep playing as I have been, but thought I would try this experiment.

Most MMOs have designated PVP areas. In this game harassers can be immersion breaking because you may be in a high security system and yet there's no repercussions to ganking. The security forces should be much more effective, or areas PVP restricted. Set up a challenge invite system. Like ESO. Too much ganking prevents progression.

[Edited] for some reason spell correct turned every "in" into "I'm."
 
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I was almost on the landing pad when attacked, landing gear down.
Didn't seem to deter the griefers though.
I had to take off again to escape destruction.
After my visit and repairs
I was just taking off from pad when attacked again and destroyed.
There are no repercussions for these murder hobos.
 
Nope... I'm afraid it is still true.. Open is a cesspit of murder hobos...
I have been playing 4 years and was driven from open as I am not here for pvp. I have played in solo or pg so I can play how I enjoy to play in Ed.. Today I thought I would try open to see how it goes..
I purchased an ieagle in open and set out to a rate and engineer the ship.
On this journey I was subjected to 2 interdict attempts, which I fought off in mini game as Eagle is good manoeuvrability.
At Deciat after dropping from frameshift I was attacked by 3 ships, made it in after aborting first attempt, with 12% Hull.
On leaving I was again attacked and destroyed on exiting the landing pad.

Second attempt to leave, again was attacked and managed to high wake with 22% Hull.

So, yes, griefers again have driven me from open..

Go on, say it.... Git gud...

No, I do not want to play this way.
I do not want to be someone else's content

Back to solo/pg for me.

No communication from attackers and I was in an unarmed little ship.
I agree but people in this thread are saying this is not so.
I am happy to keep playing as I have been, but thought I would try this experiment.
So you dropped a baby seal off in the middle of the notorious main camp of the seal-clubbers to see if seal clubbers still club baby seals. Are you sick?! That poor baby seal! & Great impartial experiment, btw.
From that you conclude that all humans all over the world club baby seals all the time. So its time to retreat to a backwater planet to live as a hermit in solo/pg, drink green goo from the teat of a bovine space slug, and sulk till the servers shut down. Go you.
 
Yup..... Suits me..
I got what I expected, I'm not sulking BTW, I did get one cmdr 07 me and saw a lot of empty squares who did not attack me on my journey.

Though surely there should be concequences for seal clubbing?

Perhaps serial murderers buy back insurance should be void.
 
Yup..... Suits me..
I got what I expected, I'm not sulking BTW, I did get one cmdr 07 me and saw a lot of empty squares who did not attack me on my journey.

Though surely there should be concequences for seal clubbing?

Perhaps serial murderers buy back insurance should be void.
Some murders can be entirely justified ingame. Blanket rules dont work.

Far better security response in high-sec systems would be welcomed by a lot of purely-PvE and PvP players alike.
 
FWIW, I've not encountered a griefer in Open in ages, and I CLEARED MY BLOCKLIST.

Maybe they are all playing the beta? Or mining for a fleet carrier. Regardless, I wonder how much of this thread is living in the past.
I went 2 days ago to deicat to engineer thrusters for my exploraconda. I was shocked how many ppl in there 10? I mean in shin dez never seen as many (i rarely go there tho). members of "code" & "gank" & at least 1 member of spear. Some "gank" conda either tried to scare me or failed to get behind me.
Then I dropped out. Farseer inc full of hollow triangles and squares as well.

I suggest go to deicat and near starting ststtems to see for yourself.
 
"Everyone should use the game features provided in the game they bought to get the game experience they want".

Seriously, will anyone disagree with that?
'The game experience they want' always has to fall within the scope and the backdrop of the game being played.

A lot of ED players want to have greater influence on the galaxy than they can achieve, as if it was a solo game where theyre the only actor. Should we all roll-over for each of them too?
Edit: In what order should we do this? First-come-first-served? Or prioritise based on who has the greatest sense of hurt? Perhaps we should democratise the BGS by prioritising those who are worst at it. There are people whos every effort to turn a faction into a grand empire has directly hurt it instead. Maybe the very most hopeless of these people we should all club-behind to take over the galaxy for them. Thatd be a nice gesture to enable them to get the game experience they want. More to the point, I think it is DISGUSTING the devs havent forced us to do this already.
 
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