Ground zone combat need to be redesigned

I'd hope for CZ's inside space stations (does not necessarily have to be of the dockable type) as well, one can dream..

Odyssey was in development for over two years and is mainly combat focus and is the best they can come up with, even a couple different game modes would make all the difference. I would love to see ARM style of game play, but I think that is way beyond Odyssey and Fdev. :cry:
devs have chosen a more arcade like approach instead of sitting in between cod and arma, it is what it is :(
 
I'd hope for CZ's inside space stations (does not necessarily have to be of the dockable type) as well, one can dream..


devs have chosen a more arcade like approach instead of sitting in between cod and arma, it is what it is :(
The problem is that they didn't have anyone with experience in FPS game design, so they look at phone based games or Fortnite type games.
You can clearly see where the inspirations is coming from, and if no one can guide and direct how to create the basics of the game, what you get is a product that doesn't know what it want to be, a frankenclone of something something.

The CZ are great as CQC on foot, as a war scenario they are not, CQC failed because it was not incorporated into the game from the start.
 
Well they obviously are snooze fests from my (and probably the majority of EDO players) perspective – and money and badge progress on them means killing hundreds if not thousands of poor hapless lvl 1 bots. However, nowhere did I say that there should be no low intensity CZ option to choose, which to me looks like you just intended to wrestle with a strawman.

I didn't realise the Frontline agency was such a simple way to try out ground combat until I saw a video. When I did try it, I wasn't doing too badly, but seemed to get worse the better I understood what the objectives were. Maybe that's because I was running into danger more quickly.

Either way, I was making around Cr300,000, win or lose, so I guess I hadn't picked a snooze fest but, at the risk of taking advantage of those unintended mechanics, I'd like to know what strategies players favour for winning CZs? Things seem to go right when I try not to rush it, but I'm still not entirely sure what I'm doing right, and the videos really don't cover that aspect of the experience.

Plus, I have no idea how to draw my third weapon when I'm in the Dominator suit.
 
I'd like to know what strategies players favour for winning CZs?
I stay on the rooftops and let the friendlies engage hostiles and then mainly just concentrate on killing enemies rather than taking caps. Enemies standing on the outside cap are also easy pickings. With pre-engineered G3 Dominator the only truly dangerous enemies are snipers, shotgunners and rocket launchers so to avoid dying it's best to keep your distance as it definitely plays against the relatively dumb AI, as does mobility in general - which also makes low g locations significantly easier than high g ones.

Plus, I have no idea how to draw my third weapon when I'm in the Dominator suit.
My bound (and default I think) is 2, key 1 switching between two primaries. I have primaries bound to mouse because of the laser/kinetic switcheroo between laser and projectile rifle.
 
Thanks. Clearly, I need to get my hands on a G3 Manticore Executioner, and maybe grind to at least one upgrade, as that suits my Glass Cannon style. Right now, I have a Karma AR-50 and Manticore Intimidator, both G3, but they need swapping slots, as I use the shotgun more, and the plasma loads seem to take out shields and flesh pretty equally, but not at a distance. I might be able to use the AR-50 to support the grunts by finishing people off from a reasonable distance. Failing that, it's going to be an Odyssey to find the Executioner.


The scanner is another issue. It appears to show charging points, terminals and ammunition, and a blob that might be a medkit. It'd be nice if the charging points that are in buildings could have a symbol to distinguish them from the ones outdoors, so I'd know to jump over a building or not.

Of course, there's also the option of flying one's own ship to the CZ, which brings in the SRV, or is that allowed?
 
I didn't realise the Frontline agency was such a simple way to try out ground combat until I saw a video. When I did try it, I wasn't doing too badly, but seemed to get worse the better I understood what the objectives were. Maybe that's because I was running into danger more quickly.

Either way, I was making around Cr300,000, win or lose, so I guess I hadn't picked a snooze fest but, at the risk of taking advantage of those unintended mechanics, I'd like to know what strategies players favour for winning CZs? Things seem to go right when I try not to rush it, but I'm still not entirely sure what I'm doing right, and the videos really don't cover that aspect of the experience.

Plus, I have no idea how to draw my third weapon when I'm in the Dominator suit.
Rules are simple, both teams start with 1000, you cap a post (flag) the enemy is reduced by 100 on top of what is killed, when the enemy can’t call in more resources because the number is 10 or below you just need to clean up and you win.

normally it’s keyboard no 2 where 1 is primary and secondary weapon.

yes you can bring your SRV if you land close by.

in this video you can see how to make millions by doing CZ
My gear is G3 dominator, G5 exterminator G3plasma pistol
 
Last edited:
But it isn't entirely inaccurate to describe the current iteration of CZ as early 2000s shooter - it sure resembles one.
Ok, but in that case most of popular modern FPS follow that rule. It's in the old pots that we do the best soup.

Sector basics
Sectors are towns (bases) you need to capture.
Sounds kind of too complicated for casual players.

Odyssey was in development for over two years and is mainly combat focus and is the best they can come up with
Compared to other FPS games, OD is not very CZ combat centric (and even less PvP). So 2 years seem actually pretty short to me compared to those other shooters' development time.

The problem is that they didn't have anyone with experience in FPS game design
That's a pretty ludicrous statement. Thinking that big game companies like Frontier don't hire the best specialists in their field is total fantasy compared to the reality of a millions dollars industry. And I mostly disagree with your analyze, to me FDev followed the current market trend, which is arcade / e-sport oriented. Any professional designer would do that, because their job is to attract the masses, not a small pool of niche enthusiasts.
 
Last edited:
This I can more agree with. But I do believe that with some tweaking of the overall on-foot combat matchmaking it could improve.
Don't get me wrong, I do play the game a lot sometimes, and then I get exhausted due to all the obvious flaws I see, and then I write some constructive critique, however I do understand if it comes off as ranting.

The foundation is basically good but the execution is just not there. Yes tweaking the mechanics would be a great start and not a huge task, it's like when they did the engineers, who came up with the great idea that playing the tombola circus was a great idea? it was so detached from the game as it could be! when you as a play expect to walk into a mechanics shop and you enter a casino there is something wrong.
 
Ok, but in that case most of popular modern FPS follow that rule. It's in the old pots that we do the best soup.
I meant that the spartan outlook and boring "maps" make EDO resemble a generic 00s shooter, not the basic rules of engagement themselves. Most popular FPS titles nowadays have varying and imaginative level designs with plethora of environmental themes and mechanisms(*), often colourful characters that have varying traits and visual appearances, a lot of different weapons and heavy on visual effects. Compared to them, EDO strikes me as rather generic and bland, just like many shooters used to be in the 00s - it's just not the pot that is old, the ingredients also seem to be well fermented as well. I would absolutely never ever buy an FPS title that looked and played like EDO czones (not that I would buy Apex Legends either, but at least the latter looks fun).

It's okay tho, I never expected FPS to compete with true FPS titles of course, I'm just surprised how darn generic they managed to make the combat feel like and how heavily arena-like it all feels despite locations being on vast landscapes.

(*) - not that surprising of course, the maps are hand designed.
 
Last edited:
Rules are simple, both teams start with 1000, you cap a post (flag) the enemy is reduced by 100 on top of what is killed, when the enemy can’t call in more resources because the number is 10 or below you just need to clean up and you win.

normally it’s keyboard no 2 where 1 is primary and secondary weapon.

yes you can bring your SRV if you land close by.

in this video you can see how to make millions by doing CZ
My gear is G3 dominator, G5 exterminator G3plasma pistol

Cheers. It was watching your video that made me decide to give Frontline a go. I thought that capping was worth 50 points, but I may have read that wrong.

Does capture happen faster if there are more grunts in the 'green zone', or does that just make it more likely that you stay in long enough for a cap?

It really doesn't help that since we had to reload EDH to get Odyssey via steam, our screen resolution changed so the 'magic wheels' are half off the screen, and we haven't gotten around to fixing it. In practise, I can grab and use an energy pack using 'circle', but don't know how to use a pack I'm already carrying. Same for medkit, I guess. These are the kind of things that reduce the risk, and make it more of a 'snooze fest', I dare say. I can make more money, with less risk, on ship-based massacre missions, but I'm up to 'Rookie' now, so there's that.

I recall someone saying that settlement missions were very lucrative during CGs, so I'm looking forward to that, and polishing my skills in the meantime. I picked up the G3 Executioner after about three jumps (and a G3 C-44 which is jittery as hell), and it's a beast, but it feels like I'm using this sniper rifle at close to max range, and the target is throwing a grenade at me, successfully.
 
EDO's on-foot game feels pretty good at the basic movement level--which is pretty damn important--but beyond that the omissions and strange design decisions start to pile up:

  • The interface still has issues, especially with the wheels, that makes them very difficult to use on the fly. Keybindings help, but a lot of functionality needs to be left off if you don't want to make it cumbersome.
  • The direct translation of ship to infantry weapon vs. defense mechanisms does not feel right at all, IMO. It only worked with ship combat because ships have multiple hardpoints and different sorts of resistances forced trade-offs in loadout selection and discouraged over-specialization. This isn't really the case on foot.
  • Weapon swapping is annoying and disadvantageous enough that even after one is practiced with it, plasma and rockets still have an extreme edge, at least against NPCs, who are distressingly immobile. The Karma L-6 is the best anti-infantry weapon in the game because it's projectile velocity is competitive with plasma, it has huge damage that infantry doesn't resist well, and a significant AoE that makes near misses almost as effective as direct hits. Most combat occurring within farting distance of an ammo box also degrades it main disadvantage.
  • TTKs are absurd, in both directions, mostly because of the extreme levels of scaling Frontier decided to implement. Fully upgraded weapons vs. low grade defenses (or rockets) are the only way to get TTKs that are in-line with other games or what seems intuitively plausible.
  • Hit location damage multipliers based on weapon rather than the hit location itself is downright strange. A laser rifle powerful enough to blast craters in concrete or metal does the same damage to infantry whether you shoot them in the toe or the temple...unless you add the head shot damage mod which somehow lets the photons being emitted know they are hitting a person in the noggin, or something?
  • Weapons automatically broadcasting simulated audio cues for potential opponents to detect is insane. There is no rational justification for this, it's unabashedly, obtusely, surrealistic. The handwavium with ship mounted weapons is understandable as there tends to be many signatures that passive sensors could pick up on in open space, but this is not the case with infantry combat. If the sensors could accurately identify the weapon being discharged, surely it could also pinpoint the source of that discharge and we wouldn't have NPCs stumble around, not knowing what hit them, as they drop like files.
  • Laser recoil...what?
  • Encounter/weapon ranges and projectile velocities.

  • Utterly arbitrary and heavy handed "class" restrictions enabled by...
  • The dumbest inventory system ever.

- Extremely limited duration of independent on-foot activity, due directly to how fast suits drain power. I have an Artemis suit with increased battery capacity and even on world with ideal temp and a full load of batteries, I still feel tethered to a ship, SRV, or energy port. Unfortunately, in PvE conflict, and especially in CZs, the same limitation, where it would actually make sense, is nearly negated by the charge ports everywhere and boxes of batteries laying around.

- Complete and utter lack of environmental interactivity, outside the extremely narrow game loops prefaced, is a terrible immersion killer. I've ranted on this topic at length, but the more I play the more absurd it feels to have a laser cutter that can't spot weld a door, harm infantry, or even be discharged, except upon pre-approved "tear here" demarcations; at least you can bludgeon people with it. More absurd are access panels that can only be accessed with a laser cutter, but are magically immune to being pried open, or being blasted open...as if the huge beam laser slung under my CMDR's FDL is somehow less powerful than that laser cutter. Barrels and crates cannot be moved, doors cannot be destroyed, windows cannot be broken. Rockets won't so much as knock over a shot glass.

- NPC AI, which is probably why half of the above exist. NPCs are blind, deaf, and dumb. They can barely navigate, have negligible situational awareness, and are completely confounded by the existence of the third dimension. The only way they can be made a threat with their current behavior is to have swarms of them and to inflate their TTKs sufficiently so that they can possible overwhelm incautious CMDRs.

I have plenty of other complaints, but this is already ballooning beyond what I'd intended. All of these things taint the whole Odyssey experience, from exploration to CZs. As others have mentioned, too many descrete components, all too disconnected from each other.

Anyway...conflict zones:
Source: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t9DmJsugd8w

1.49g, high-intensity, G3 artemis with improved jump, G3 rocket with magazine size...all off the shelf. This should not have been easy, but it always is, because the NPC AI is not there yet. It also goes from easy at high-g locations, to downright comical at low g ones as I fly from ammo box to ammo box and rain rockets on robots for ten minutes then leave with 10 million in combat bonds without taking a single hit.

how heavily arena-like it all feels despite locations being on vast landscapes.

Ideally, conflicts would color whole systems, and running off to fight in one would expose one to the potential for danger almost any place at any time. I'd like to see the Frontline dropships come under attack in SC, air superiority actually be a thing, ground units travel overland to reach and hold some tactically meaningful position, etc and so forth.

However, the same problems that have always made this sort of depth difficult for ED--instancing, lack of persistence, poor integration of mechanisms, and AI that couldn't handle it anyway--are even more prescient in Odyssey.

I can grab and use an energy pack using 'circle', but don't know how to use a pack I'm already carrying.

Press seven.

Same for medkit, I guess.

Six.
 
One way to do it would be like it’s done in war sims, you start with one base, after you get control you go to the next and so on, where you have taken control of all the bases you will finally get access the enemy HQ where the final battle is, if you win the system is yours. Until this is done the enemy can retake their bases and the will cut you off to progress further. If the battle is stalemate you can trigger a peace treaty where you keep what you got.

I know this is a common way to do things, but I'm not that keen on it.

Anything should be vulnerable at any time, at least potentially, in principle. It may be more practical to take certain objectives in a certain order to weaken the opposing force before the final push, but if I can go straight to their headquarters and proverbially chop the head off the snake, the game should at least let me try.

I stopped playing Planetside 2 when they set up their control system to funnel everyone into mass battles and make it impossible to capture assets behind enemy lines. Even in games that I primarily play for direct action, I always prefer to have the option for stealth, subterfuge, and maneuver. In something like ED, which is far more than just a skirmish simulator, I'd expect hope for more.
 
Six when feeling sick, got it.

One other thing, when I started, it was easy to shoot someone on my own side, but it didn't seem to do them any damage. Was I just lucky, or is that smart munitions, or dumb gameplay? Can we actually shoot through our own troops in corridors, or do they at least block the rounds?

The rocket launcher is crazy, but what's crazier is the enemy takes a licking and keeps on ticking, for up to three shots. They really hate the idea of people being incapacitated or unconscious for the coup de grace...

Edit: except that the coup de grace is being knocked unconscious, and presumably evac'd out. Just no inbetween state.
 
Does capture happen faster if there are more grunts in the 'green zone',
Yes, if there are more friendly in the green zone it caps faster.

capping was worth 50 points
No it’s a 100


I know this is a common way to do things, but I'm not that keen on it.
That’s ok, that’s why we talk about it, however my benchmark model is arma warlords where even casual players can drop in.

TTKs are absurd, in both directions, mostly because of the extreme levels of scaling Frontier decided to implement. Fully upgraded weapons vs. low grade defenses (or rockets) are the only way to get TTKs that are in-line
Yes only G5 rocket and plasma rifle can take an enemy down in two hits.
Laser recoil...what?
Lol yeah you know because …..
G3 Executioner
is a great weapon, get it to G5 and add a few mods and you can take down anything. Most enemies are down with one shot.
 
Back
Top Bottom