Guilds in Elite Dangerous
- Thread starter JohnStabler
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Don't do that then...play in the All-Group instead. Problem solved!
You have completely missed the point. There are going to be potentially vast numbers of players who I'll (we'll) never see in game. Players flying around in their ships represent game content.
I know space is large and vast but at this rate multiplayer, flexiplayer or co-op.. it won't matter - we'll be seeing far fewer other players than we should.
Don't do that then...play in the All-Group instead. Problem solved!
Thats exactly what I will be doing, playing on the naughty step....
I have vented my spleen now so no more negativity from me for a while, hopefully there will be some fun in alpha....
Thats exactly what I will be doing, playing on the naughty step....
Indeed ...
Play in the All-Pilots group (so you meet new players) and form an alliance with some like minded people from the forums to travel around with. After release, depending upon things, FD will consider implementing some kind of Guild structure.
I was bothered by the lack of it to begin with but with so much whining in this thread I am now quite complacent about it .. or more accurately - meh!
And you are missing the point that there are a good portion of players who have no interest in being preyed upon by other players, but want to experience the evolving content with the game.
So ultimately you will not be missing out on anything that we do as if we only had the option to play off line otherwise, we would be doing just that. Thankfully, as long as we don't have a bounty on our heads, we have a fairly defined method of choosing who we can interact with.
IMNSHO, I do not care to interact with people who's sole purpose is to attack other players. I will be perfectly happy enjoying the content without having to worry about someone else trying damnedest to make my experience less enjoyable.
You mean they actively chose to exclude everyone from their game and play solo online / with friends only ?
I was alluding to this but didn't want to say it so directly
My desire to see the game brimming with players, who represent game content, is nothing to do with wishing to attack them.
Even in Elite Dangerous, I will be avoiding PuGs. I'll be looking for people who
a) work full-time (or don't mind playing alongside/at the pace of those that do)
b) play at roughly the same timezone as me (evenings, and weekends UK)
c) are the "good" guys
d) recognises that RL comes first (this as much means, log out when **** hit the fans, as well as, don't bring your RL **** in-game)
e) Play competitively, play hard and play fair
I've been a serial GM since Ultima Online (and I played BBC B Elite) and barely play any SP games now. I even played tribal wars (browser based RTS) which was wholey crap, but we had a great tribe set up and we had good banter. You can play a crap game with good people and still enjoy yourself. The converse is not true for me.
I LIKE getting to know people online and I enjoy playing alongside more-or-less the same players everyday because I put a lot of effort in to training people when I have something to offer, and learning from them when I don't. I don't want that to walk out the door.
Solo play, and particularly PUGs just doesn't cut it. I'm not baying for extra features to be added until we can actually play-test what they have, but I've tested games that didn't have guild-like features and although we managed to organise ourselves and dare say will again, it was noticeable ommission.
anyways, I have all the guild mechanics down and will be looking out for like-minded people probably under my current guild www.mystical-awakening.net.
See you in space soon™
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I think ED is going to be a very lonely game. I expect coming across an actual player will be a rare occurrence and we will interact like two folk a long long way from home. Suits me fine, since I'm looking forward to the frontier life, even though I'll be playing in the All-group. Sure, there'll be the occasional psychopath to keep thing interesting, but you'll have more chance of being killed by a stray asteroid I envisage.
Everyone wants to see this game brimming with players. I just don't get why some people assume that just because this game gives you a choice how to play the game that automatically will be a bad thing?
Sure, some people will choose to "hide away" for any number of reasons, but these people probably wouldn't even have bought the game anyway if it was a pure MMO. Who knows? Since it's really easy to switch between the different groups these players might eventually be curious enough to flip the switch over into the All Group. Having this system might actually lure people into the All Group rather than out of it.
It's not like there is some law written down in stone tablets that states that games can ONLY be either Co-Op, MMO, single player or any other locked down "category".
I for one welcome our new overlord! The almighty flexi-player!
There is far too much negativity on this forum from way too many people in relation to the multi-player aspect of online games which offers up endless nightmarish scenarios. Have people really been that damaged by a few annoying encounters?
In relation to ED, it started with David Braben from the outset when he went out of his way to erroneously demonize online gamers by referencing 'griefers' as some sort of plague like problem entailing vast hordes of people who do nothing but frustrate others.
I've played many, many games online and have come across some really annoying people and experienced frustrating times. However, the vast majority of people I've encountered, even on an opposite faction, have helped to create a dynamic and fun experience which have generally enhanced the greatness of a game.
There is a real danger here of creating a game that appears like a barren wasteland, bereft of players as content, out of some desire to create a utopian experience.
In relation to ED, it started with David Braben from the outset when he went out of his way to erroneously demonize online gamers by referencing 'griefers' as some sort of plague like problem entailing vast hordes of people who do nothing but frustrate others.
I've played many, many games online and have come across some really annoying people and experienced frustrating times. However, the vast majority of people I've encountered, even on an opposite faction, have helped to create a dynamic and fun experience which have generally enhanced the greatness of a game.
There is a real danger here of creating a game that appears like a barren wasteland, bereft of players as content, out of some desire to create a utopian experience.
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I was alluding to this but didn't want to say it so directly
Sorry, but with the multitude of my character flaws, thankfully Tact and Patience are not among them.
Let's avoid assumptions first. We speculate about something not even released and we haven't seen implementation yet.
First, we don't know how user interface for choosing your groups will look like. If default will be 'open all' (which is quite believable bearing in mind that FD really sees MP as major feature), and choices are well explained, most of people will pick playing with others. Those who want to hang out with friends will do it anyway. So unless people are forced by default in single player online, I really have hard time to see lot of people choosing this explicitly. Yes, there will be people who will play single player first, and maybe will lurk into 'open all' group later down the line. There will be people who will choose to play single player after some confusing encounters. But overall let's not spell doom and gloom here so fast
Second, I think it can't be stressed enough that ED is PvE. It's a nature of the game. Call it 'lonely', call it 'barren'. However, it seems strange that in this discussion almost no one mentions NPCs. It can be understandable, because in classic MMOs they are mostly very static grind meat so who cares, they are active background at best. In ED (as in FE and FFE) they will be respectful friends or foes. This fact alone makes ED unique and different from X or EVE or even SC. So don't worry. You won't feel very lonely in ED even when playing single player offline. Also FD steered overall development discussion about this how to make galaxy be "alive" indicates that they quite aware of this problem and will work with it.
Returning to subject - there are several reasons not to implement guild support in classic manner (however I support brainstorming about how to implement such feature well in ED, because why not). First of all, it would look weird in how local communication currently planned to work in ED. Second, bearing in mind how instances will work, I would really give Alliances a shot first. Maybe they can work in your current guild framework. Maybe we will see Alliances evolve into something more directed at guilds.
I personally don't see harm from guilds, I just never had fun with them (casually playing that's huge problem). There are stupid people everywhere, guild or no guild. That's not a reason not to play 'open all' Won't lose sleep over it if support won't arrive soon, but would interesting for FD and us as community to innovate in this regard as well.
First, we don't know how user interface for choosing your groups will look like. If default will be 'open all' (which is quite believable bearing in mind that FD really sees MP as major feature), and choices are well explained, most of people will pick playing with others. Those who want to hang out with friends will do it anyway. So unless people are forced by default in single player online, I really have hard time to see lot of people choosing this explicitly. Yes, there will be people who will play single player first, and maybe will lurk into 'open all' group later down the line. There will be people who will choose to play single player after some confusing encounters. But overall let's not spell doom and gloom here so fast
Second, I think it can't be stressed enough that ED is PvE. It's a nature of the game. Call it 'lonely', call it 'barren'. However, it seems strange that in this discussion almost no one mentions NPCs. It can be understandable, because in classic MMOs they are mostly very static grind meat so who cares, they are active background at best. In ED (as in FE and FFE) they will be respectful friends or foes. This fact alone makes ED unique and different from X or EVE or even SC. So don't worry. You won't feel very lonely in ED even when playing single player offline. Also FD steered overall development discussion about this how to make galaxy be "alive" indicates that they quite aware of this problem and will work with it.
Returning to subject - there are several reasons not to implement guild support in classic manner (however I support brainstorming about how to implement such feature well in ED, because why not). First of all, it would look weird in how local communication currently planned to work in ED. Second, bearing in mind how instances will work, I would really give Alliances a shot first. Maybe they can work in your current guild framework. Maybe we will see Alliances evolve into something more directed at guilds.
I personally don't see harm from guilds, I just never had fun with them (casually playing that's huge problem). There are stupid people everywhere, guild or no guild. That's not a reason not to play 'open all'
Won't lose sleep over it if support won't arrive soon, but would interesting for FD and us as community to innovate in this regard as well.Minti2
Deadly, But very fluffy...
Agree with everything you say, had the same experiences bad and good, with the good/fun/social aspects more then outweighing the griefing or any other bad aspects with playing multi player games.
ED will be what it will be though, the arguments for and against certain play styles have been tossed about over the year and its the same old.
I have friends here with others coming later on ED release and we will just see how Alliance forming develops, if its practical play wise, fun and hopefully with plenty of players to encounter.
So that's why you actively have to go out your way to avoid PvP? I'm not sure I buy this. If it was a PvE game, you would have pvp zones, arenas, or flags defaulting to OFF. Instead you have some sort of easy method to ignore players you don't like. You have to make it a PvE game by flying off, ignoring players and creating a long **** list.
Anyways, whether or not it is or it isn't, i know what I'll be looking for in a game, and it will not be preying on the single miner with 22 wingmen, but fair fights.
I've been thinking of "The Rule of 16" as some sort of honour code. still early days, but I'll coin the phrase here and maybe it'll come to something later when MP is in the testing.
Some guilds self-enforce their own rules and standards about PvP. Those who don't follow them are rapidly kicked out. It's been quite a nice system in my own experience.
Even though the equivalent won't exist in ED, it would be nice to be able to see some form of assosciation on players. I'm not talking about huge glowing text above their ships with name and faction. Even if you have to scan them first, see if there is a bounty, and a known or suspected affiliation to an alliance.
Of course, alliances may probably need to be given names. Which kind of makes them mini guilds. Oh I'm confused.
Even though the equivalent won't exist in ED, it would be nice to be able to see some form of assosciation on players. I'm not talking about huge glowing text above their ships with name and faction. Even if you have to scan them first, see if there is a bounty, and a known or suspected affiliation to an alliance.
Of course, alliances may probably need to be given names. Which kind of makes them mini guilds. Oh I'm confused.
Multiplayer > Singleplayer
I really don't know what people are worrying about.
I have been playing online multiplayer games for over a decade and griefing has never really been an issue.
Tribes 2 - Griefers were kicked and banned. Griefing in this game was generally teamkilling other players or team assets.
DayZ - Griefers were kicked and banned. Griefing in this game was generally people who hacked and used exploits. I chose to play on servers with good administration as well as private hives.
Elite Dangerous - Griefers will be dealt with by the game universe mechanics. Frontier have addressed this already. Players who sit around and shoot new players will have a police response and a growing bounty upon their heads thus forcing them to either face destruction or go to the outer systems.
PvP is not griefing. Getting killed by another player is not being griefed.
Abusing a game mechanic to purposely make the gaming experience of others is griefing (ie. spawn camping).
Any true griefing mechanics will begin to show up in the Beta I expect.
I really don't know what people are worrying about.
I have been playing online multiplayer games for over a decade and griefing has never really been an issue.
Tribes 2 - Griefers were kicked and banned. Griefing in this game was generally teamkilling other players or team assets.
DayZ - Griefers were kicked and banned. Griefing in this game was generally people who hacked and used exploits. I chose to play on servers with good administration as well as private hives.
Elite Dangerous - Griefers will be dealt with by the game universe mechanics. Frontier have addressed this already. Players who sit around and shoot new players will have a police response and a growing bounty upon their heads thus forcing them to either face destruction or go to the outer systems.
PvP is not griefing. Getting killed by another player is not being griefed.
Abusing a game mechanic to purposely make the gaming experience of others is griefing (ie. spawn camping).
Any true griefing mechanics will begin to show up in the Beta I expect.
I totally agree.
Anyone who chooses to should be able to sit around core spaceports and snipe newbies as they first appear in the game.
The newbies won't lose anything at all, as their ship insurance will look after their recovery.
The attacker however, well it's not going to be financially viable for him if he isn't good at shooting. Not just for one kill to add to his rating. Between police, bountyhunters, spacestations, even pirates, he will be target number one in that system.
However, as I have said before - if someone can really play that well, and take on everything the game can throw at him, I see no need for artificial ends. Let the players deal with it, for rich rewards! Spawn the newbies someplace else temporarily if need be, but please no instakills!
Anyone who chooses to should be able to sit around core spaceports and snipe newbies as they first appear in the game.
The newbies won't lose anything at all, as their ship insurance will look after their recovery.
The attacker however, well it's not going to be financially viable for him if he isn't good at shooting. Not just for one kill to add to his rating. Between police, bountyhunters, spacestations, even pirates, he will be target number one in that system.
However, as I have said before - if someone can really play that well, and take on everything the game can throw at him, I see no need for artificial ends. Let the players deal with it, for rich rewards! Spawn the newbies someplace else temporarily if need be, but please no instakills!
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